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Thread: Was Rush influenced by Journey?

  1. #26
    Member Digital_Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FirthOf5th View Post
    Seems like Kansas nicked a bit from Journey too.

    I just looked up the recording and release dates for both this album and carry on wayward son and it seems to be pretty close. I suppose it's possible Kansas sneaked into the studio where Journey was recording though and borrowed that riff before Leftoveture was released. This was a bit tricky though because COWS was recorded in December of 75 and look to the future was recorded between August and October of 75. So there would have to have been some kind of insider knowledge of what Journey were doing before the album was released (actually in either case). My guess is it's just a coincidence that they sound similar.
    Last edited by Digital_Man; 07-23-2021 at 05:32 PM.
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  2. #27
    Member Vic2012's Avatar
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    Just heard that Journey video. I have the CD but just played it for shits and giggles. Heavy track. Big, big organ.

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by dropforge View Post
    Yeah, that all happened, but by RoR, they were about done, son. Infinity, Evolution, Departure, Escape (enter Jon Cain) and Frontiers are the albums the vast majority of their fans care about. That's why they milked them to death in all those tours in the last two decades.
    Well, I haven't seen the setlists from any of their recent tours, so I don't know if they do anything from Raised On Radio or not. I'd have thought Be Good To Yourself and/or The Girl Can't Help It (dammit, did they really need to steal the title of a Bobby Troup song?!) would get played, since they were fairly big hits.

    But all of the albums you name are head and shoulders above Raised On Radio. I mean, if you don't like the sound on a record like Departure or Escape or Frontier, yeah, I can understand that. BUt for that approach, those are all solid records, whereas I don't feel that way about Raised On Radio. And the earlier albums all had tunes that betrayed the existence within the band's game plan something that wasn't just MOR. Witness:





    The songs on the first three (with Rolie) sound quite a bit different from the next two. And if you're gonna mince about MOR, they all wanted to go in that direction. That's why they brought in a dedicated frontman. I doubt anyone complained about the money showing up in their checker. The only line-up change was Rolie, till Valory and Smith got their walking papers.
    I've been given to believe it was really Herbie Herbert and whoever their A&R guy at Columbia was who was really into them moving in that direction. But then maybe they reckoned they could indulge whatever they wanted to do on solo records, while at th esame time still having hits. Witness the Schon & Hammer and HSAS records. Neal could rock out when he wanted to (or when he was able to get his mivonks back from Perry).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Man View Post
    I just looked up the recording and release dates for both this album and carry on wayward son and it seems to be pretty close. I suppose it's possible Kansas sneaked into the studio where Journey was recording though and borrowed that riff before Leftoveture was released. This was a bit tricky though because COWS was recorded in December of 75 and look to the future was recorded between August and October of 75. So there would have to have been some kind of insider knowledge of what Journey were doing before the album was released (actually in either case). My guess is it's just a coincidence that they sound similar.

    I thought the story was they played on the same bill and heard it live.

    Like Led Zeppelin did with Spirit, and Steve Hackett with Van Der Graaf.

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by FirthOf5th View Post
    I thought the story was they played on the same bill and heard it live.

    Like Led Zeppelin did with Spirit, and Steve Hackett with Van Der Graaf.
    What did Hackett swipe from VDGG?!

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    What did Hackett swipe from VDGG?!
    Listen around the 1:00 mark:



    Now listen to Slogans:


  7. #32
    Member Digital_Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FirthOf5th View Post
    I thought the story was they played on the same bill and heard it live.

    Like Led Zeppelin did with Spirit, and Steve Hackett with Van Der Graaf.
    Ok, that makes sense. It reminds me of how The Eagles heard a Jethro Tull song when they played with them(a song from Stand Up but I don't remember which one) and it influenced them when they made hotel California. Apparently Ian Anderson was ok with that even though the similarities were unmistakable.
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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Man View Post
    Ok, that makes sense. It reminds me of how The Eagles heard a Jethro Tull song when they played with them(a song from Stand Up but I don't remember which one) and it influenced them when they made hotel California. Apparently Ian Anderson was ok with that even though the similarities were unmistakable.
    Yes. And I agree that with all the examples in this thread, it was ok, because these bands did something original with what they borrowed.

  9. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Man View Post
    Ok, that makes sense. It reminds me of how The Eagles heard a Jethro Tull song when they played with them(a song from Stand Up but I don't remember which one) and it influenced them when they made hotel California. Apparently Ian Anderson was ok with that even though the similarities were unmistakable.
    We Used To Know, I believe it was. But here's the thing: Don Felder was the band member who wrote the music to Hotel California, and he didnt' join the band until 1974, so unless Tull and The Eagles were touring together in 74-75, and Tull were playing We Used To Know at the time, that theory rather falls apart.

    Of course, it's possible Felder had heard the studio version, and copped the changes from there.

  10. #35
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Yeah, Slogans is definitely Graafesque


    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FirthOf5th View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Man View Post
    Ok, that makes sense. It reminds me of how The Eagles heard a Jethro Tull song when they played with them(a song from Stand Up but I don't remember which one) and it influenced them when they made hotel California. Apparently Ian Anderson was ok with that even though the similarities were unmistakable.
    Yes. And I agree that with all the examples in this thread, it was ok, because these bands did something original with what they borrowed.
    We Used To Know, I believe it was. But here's the thing: Don Felder was the band member who wrote the music to Hotel California, and he didnt' join the band until 1974, so unless Tull and The Eagles were touring together in 74-75, and Tull were playing We Used To Know at the time, that theory rather falls apart.

    Of course, it's possible Felder had heard the studio version, and copped the changes from there.
    I don't think Tull was playing We Used To Know on stage past Benefit or Aqualung.

    From what I gather, someone pointed the similarity out to Anderson. He hadn't realised and didn't take offence.

    Unlike most of the examples in this thread (not sure about the Grobschnitt one), none are as obvious as Zep's Taurus To Heaven or Purple's Bombay In Time. For WUTK and HotelC, most non-musicians won't pick it up. I am able to hear it because I know about it.
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  11. #36
    Member dropforge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FirthOf5th View Post
    I thought the story was they played on the same bill and heard it live.
    Correct. Journey and Kansas toured together for a few months. That tidbit is mentioned in the Time³ booklet.

  12. #37
    NEARfest Officer Emeritus Nearfest2's Avatar
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    The only similarity I've ever heard between "Nickel and Dime" and "Tom Sawyer" is the use of 5/4 and 10/4 time signatures. That would hardly qualify as hard evidence of influence. Also, "Nickel and Dime" is from 1977 and "Tom Sawyer" is from 1981. Rush was known for being influenced by the music of the time, so this would seem unlikely. Also, by the time Moving Pictures came out, a. Rush was past their classic progressive rock phase and b. Journey was an arena rock band on the verge of pop superstardom with "Escape" set for release only five months later.
    Chad

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post

    I don't think Tull was playing We Used To Know on stage past Benefit or Aqualung.

    From what I gather, someone pointed the similarity out to Anderson. He hadn't realised and didn't take offence.
    Speaking of We Used to Know, here's the shittiest version i'm aware of -


  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by progholio View Post
    Speaking of We Used to Know, here's the shittiest version i'm aware of -
    Francis Monkman wrote that.

  15. #40
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by progholio View Post
    Speaking of We Used to Know, here's the shittiest version i'm aware of -

    that sounds much more like WUTK than HC does for sure

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Triscuits View Post
    Francis Monkman wrote that.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

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