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Thread: Grateful Dead for beginners

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Sturgeon's Lawyer View Post
    Oh: I forgot this.

    If you can find a copy, there was an official album called Infrared Roses, in which they (or, rather, their producer) took various "Space and Drums" segments from their concerts and placed them sequentially to create new soundscapes. Amazon has one for $50 (new) but maybe somewhere else will be cheaper.

    Ooh! Just looked at Discogs. There they can be had as low as three bucks.

    https://www.discogs.com/Grateful-Dea...release/446248
    Yeah, Infrared Roses is fantastic, a good compilation of late 80's/early 90's recordings. Jerry, Phil and Weir were getting well into guitar synths at the time, and you can hear a lot of that on here. A rare instance of digital synths actually sounding good.

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by StarThrower View Post
    I'm not really in to the folk rock, or Bobby Weir country covers.
    This is where I struggle as well - I find it hard to sit through recordings of these long shows when the first halves seem to be filled up with this kind of material.

    But then, & by constrast, I could sit for hours listening to back to back to back versions of Eyes of the World. Even though they often don't nail the chorus, Jerry's vocals on the verses are more often than not exquisite, & it's just such a beautifully composed tune - there's a kind of aching melancholy which seems to bring the best out of the improv sections. I love how they could do it as funky, or with long improvs before the first verse, or with the more experimental improvs at the "end".

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    It would be just too damn difficult to release the shows separately, wouldn't it.

    At any rate, I'm familiar with the shows from 72 and 73, but those two shows from 71 looks like your standard, boring '71 shows, with way too many covers, way too much Pigpen (really, did the world ever need a 22 minute version of Good Lovin'?!) and not enough "weirdness".
    I listened to the first show (12/9/71) from the Archive yesterday. No space jams, but it's an energetic and well played show. The new-at-the-time songs are played quite a bit faster than the versions from Europe '72 which is an interesting wrinkle (where most bands play their songs faster as they get more familiar with them, the Dead played them slower).

    As far as the big release, seems like most people these days take the "all or nothing" approach.

  4. #54
    It's kind of weird. I would not consider myself a Deadhead, but I keep buying everything they release, so probably have 50 CD sets of Dead shows and records. Cornell is so legendary there is an entire book written about it, but it is not my favorite show. I am not sure I have one. I saw them live only once, at Alpine Valley in WI, and all I remember is that I had to stand the entire 3-hr show because everyone else was. If I have fave songs, they are The Other One, Eyes of the World, Franklin's Tower and Weather Report Suite.
    I'm not lazy. I just work so fast I'm always done.

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by pb2015 View Post

    As far as the big release, seems like most people these days take the "all or nothing" approach.
    Most people who can afford it, you mean. Those of us who aren't wealthy, once again, get screwed.

  6. #56
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    Thanks, I have Blues For Allah & Workingman, was wondering what to pick up next
    I'd go with Terrapin Station and Wake Of The Flood if I was you
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  7. #57
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    I'd go with Terrapin Station and Wake Of The Flood if I was you
    This is good advice. But American Beauty is a 100% must if you want more in the vein of Workingman's.
    Get ratty!! New album RATS' ALLEY incontrovertibly available!
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  8. #58
    Member chalkpie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Triscuits View Post
    This is good advice. But American Beauty is a 100% must if you want more in the vein of Workingman's.
    Totally. American Beauty is a must regardless if anything. So is Europe 72, even the normal 2-cd set. Terrapin isn't perfect all the way through but its proggy as hell in spots and the title track is their masterpiece imo.

  9. #59
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Triscuits View Post
    This is good advice. But American Beauty is a 100% must if you want more in the vein of Workingman's.

    I'd rather avoid the Americana/Country rock of WD and AB, really... definitely not my stuff

    I'm definitely more in to the stuff until Live Dead and the "slightly proggy-jazzy" trilogy (WotF, BfH and TS - Mars Hotel is also OK)


    =================


    I saw The Dead some 6 to 8 times during the early 80's in Ontario (once) or Upstate NY (Syracuse mostly)
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Most people who can afford it, you mean. Those of us who aren't wealthy, once again, get screwed.
    They're doing a standalone release of one of the '71 shows, and I think releasing the 10/18/72 jam sequence on vinyl. Otherwise...listen to the shows on the Archive as I doubt they can improve them much for the box set.

  11. #61
    Member StarThrower's Avatar
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    Gonna listen to Live At Cow Palace tonight. A 3 disc 24 track recording from New Year's Eve 1976. Features a great 20 minute jam on Playin' In The Band, among other goodies.

  12. #62
    Member chalkpie's Avatar
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    Dave is a good salesman! Sounds like a great set.

  13. #63
    Member chalkpie's Avatar
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    NP: Hundred Year Hall, Jahrhunderthalle, Frankfurt, 26 April 1972

  14. #64
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    I highly recommend Terrapin Station, Cap Centre, Landover, MD 3/15/90 3CD.



    https://www.discogs.com/Grateful-Dea...elease/2729440
    I like the part where Icarus hijacks the Little Red Hen.

    http://www.discogs.com/user/moecurlythanu/collection

  15. #65
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    The artwork for the upcoming set is pretty cool!

    gd_stlouis_listentotheriver_20cd_digital_3.jpg
    Last edited by JKL2000; 1 Week Ago at 12:33 AM.
    "Actually, throughout my life, my two greatest assets have been mental stability and being, like, really smart...not smart, but genius....and a very stable genius at that!"

  16. #66
    Member chalkpie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    I highly recommend Terrapin Station, Cap Centre, Landover, MD 3/15/90

    https://www.discogs.com/Grateful-Dea...elease/2729440
    Haven't heard this but 'To Terrapin' Hartford 1977 is outstanding.

  17. #67
    Member Monet's Avatar
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    If the recommendation should go to someone who loves psychedelic rock, as well as art rock, I would recommend these masterpieces:

    Aoxomoxoa
    Live / Dead
    Wake of the Flood
    From the Mars Hotel
    Blues for Allah
    Terrapin Station

    edit: Oh and I would like to also add "Side Trips, Volume One" by Jerry Garcia & Howard Wales. It was recorded live at the Matrix in San Francisco in 1970; it often sounds like typical Dead's psychedelic & jazzy jamming, just without going into the familiar songs.


    Last edited by Monet; 1 Week Ago at 11:16 AM.

  18. #68
    Next to The Who's Live at Leeds, Magma's Hhai/live, Quicksilver Messenger Service's Happy Trails and The Mahavishnu Orchestra's Between Nothingness and Eternity (or alternately Zappa/Mothers' Roxy), Live/Dead is the single greatest concert recording I heard by an "oldtime" rock group. And by far the finest example of unspeakably creative improvisation and coherence, given the conditions. "Dark Star" needs to be not only heard but experienced - it's essentially THAT colossal in scope and figuration.

    But my fave will always be Anthem of the Sun, which is an experimentalist-monumental slice of avant-garde rock'n'roll containing mindblowing steps of wonder, awe and gutsy gusto. It changed my whole view on every possibility of "enhancement" and tabula rasa/blank slate in not only rock but in all of popular music. Even the most radical things in rock today couldn't touch the sheer transcendence of this.

    Blues for Allah is absolutely excellent, and with Terrapin Station their closest stab at "pure prog(ressive)". Both Workingman's Dead and American Beauty are patchy but at times fabulous.

    Start with Anthem or Live/Dead and be amazed - if not at first then in time. And then move on from there.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  19. #69
    Member chalkpie's Avatar
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    I really dig Live/Dead but I can't get over Phil's bass out of tune on Dark Star. It's one of those things - I know it's there and I can't "unhear" it. Otherwise its a fantastic album.

  20. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by chalkpie View Post
    I really dig Live/Dead but I can't get over Phil's bass out of tune on Dark Star. It's one of those things - I know it's there and I can't "unhear" it. Otherwise its a fantastic album.
    Well, at least it's nothing near as grating as that of Geezer Butler's on Sabbath's Live At Last.

    Both Lesh and Garcia notoriously keep tuning up and down and in and out during the Live/Dead "Dark Star" performance, yet what I find the most fascinating about that particular version is that there's essentially not one single method of actually following the pattern of improvisation and still coming into their unison arrangement of tone in places, especially when they fall back into place in texture at the end. Because the written lines as there and eventually display themselves, a phenom which I can't explain except for the suggestion that their day-to-day performance schedule somehow bestowed them with a sense of collective instict in improvisation.

    Did you ever hear the mammoth "Dark Star" from the Glastonbury Fayre-recordings, Frankie? With Keith Godchaux handling the grand piano? It's like a damn bucket of lethal lice-bacillus chasing a melting frog and transmitting their obtuse vocabulary to us humans in a whim of ungodly grace. Some of the most genuinely frightening piano I heard this side of Marilyn Crispell or George Crumb, and seriously bordering on aleatoric craft.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  21. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by per anporth View Post
    This is where I struggle as well - I find it hard to sit through recordings of these long shows when the first halves seem to be filled up with this kind of material.
    Did you ever hear the Ace solo album of his? To me, this was the finest thing ever released by any of them outside of the group (although I really like some of the first Kingfish record as well). And one of the rare occasions in which studio renditions sounded even more alive than corresponding live versions; "Playing In the Band" and "Looks Like Rain" are exemplary, but the sheer joy in "Cassidy" makes for some immensely tremendous impressions of outsider mentality - especially if you read the lyrics in light of the Neal Cassady interpretation.

    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  22. #72
    Member Monet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    I'd rather avoid the Americana/Country rock of WD and AB, really... definitely not my stuff
    Same here, but... Dazzlingly beautiful & timeless "Box of Rain", one of the best ever album-opening tracks, is there. Phil Lesh's singing is so lovely.



  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    Next to The Who's Live at Leeds, Magma's Hhai/live, Quicksilver Messenger Service's Happy Trails and The Mahavishnu Orchestra's Between Nothingness and Eternity (or alternately Zappa/Mothers' Roxy),
    Hey don't forget the Allman Brothers Band's "At Fillmore East".

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    Well, at least it's nothing near as grating as that of Geezer Butler's on Sabbath's Live At Last.

    Both Lesh and Garcia notoriously keep tuning up and down and in and out during the Live/Dead "Dark Star" performance, yet what I find the most fascinating about that particular version is that there's essentially not one single method of actually following the pattern of improvisation and still coming into their unison arrangement of tone in places, especially when they fall back into place in texture at the end. Because the written lines as there and eventually display themselves, a phenom which I can't explain except for the suggestion that their day-to-day performance schedule somehow bestowed them with a sense of collective instict in improvisation.

    Did you ever hear the mammoth "Dark Star" from the Glastonbury Fayre-recordings, Frankie? With Keith Godchaux handling the grand piano? It's like a damn bucket of lethal lice-bacillus chasing a melting frog and transmitting their obtuse vocabulary to us humans in a whim of ungodly grace. Some of the most genuinely frightening piano I heard this side of Marilyn Crispell or George Crumb, and seriously bordering on aleatoric craft.
    Live/Dead=you never forget your first Dark Star. And it’s still a Top 20 version. But it’s not the apex predator of Dark Stars.
    Glastonbury Fayre=Keith avoids playing the role of Pigpen, and becomes Keith. But once comfortable in his own skin/shoes, he gains the confidence to explore the deep cosmos.

    There are two Dark Stars at the top of the food chain: 4/8/72 Wembley Empire Pool, London (which you can hear on Europe ‘72 Vol 2, or Steppin’ Out With the Grateful Dead, both available on CD and streaming services) is the sound of being born. A look out the windshield of a hovercraft floating effortlessly above a beautiful landscape which grows increasingly gorgeous, with Phil dropping happy bombs, Keith’s piano driving the jam skywards, and Garcia’s “tiger” fanning bringing it all to a stunning, sunny finale.
    Then there’s the other side of the coin—Veneta, OR 8/27/72, memorialized on ‘Sunshine Daydream’. This is the Dark Star of death, with Phil’s bass plummeting the depths of despair, Keith’s piano spiraling downwards into dread, and Garcia’s “tiger” fanning a dying ember into the cold, grey, dreary ashes that blow away into meaningless fibers of microscopic dust that will be remembered by no one, and acknowledged only with irritation by those who might get a speck in their eyeball.
    Other Dark Stars cower before these two monsters, including the aforementioned Live/Dead version. Not that others are bad, but they are not as bad-assed as these two. The telepathy you refer to is even harder at work in these versions. Listen and enjoy, assuming your sofa has seatbelts.
    Daily jazz vinyl reviews on Instagram @jazzandcoffee

  25. #75
    ^ I'll have to check 'em out. Thx.

    I listened to The Doors, Cream, Hendrix and The Who when I was 13-14, after having been a fan of Zep/Sab/Heep/Deep/Free etc. for a couple of years, but I didn't really "get" the surroundings of it.

    My first Dead album-buy was as 16-y.o. in April 1988 with Europe '72, and to someone who'd just discovered Gong's You and KC's Tongues I found it utterly unlistenable at the time. I didn't know enough of context or cultural and musical scenery to grasp its quality back then.

    Then I saw the It Was 20 years Ago Today film and rapidly got interested in 60s countercultural psychedelia. By 1989-90 I was an ardent disciple of acid-rock, I'd say. A somewhat bad and sad thing to be in the 80s and 90s, kinda.

    Great days.
    Last edited by Scrotum Scissor; 1 Week Ago at 04:08 PM.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

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