New YES album "The Quest" out 1 Oct

[bondegezou]

I have not criticized Geoff. Please stop twisting my words into something negative.

Let me try to explain how I interpreted your words. You said, "Do we have an explanation, Henry? Where is that champion of clear communication now, that felt people were justified in excoriating Crimson for not being clear enough in explanation? // We don't have an explanation. We have a reiteration of Downes' claim to have written the music, previously stated in the songwriting credits. Nothing has been explained". That appeared to me to be a criticism of Downes and his explanation.

My point stands:

If Geoff is not in a position to explain, that's understandable. But not explaining because he's not in a position to explain is not an explanation. That's not a criticism, an accusation that he's lying, or libel.

There's still a Monkman track on YouTube with people commenting on it trashing Yes left and right. Until things are explained, the optics are bad for the band. That's a statement of fact, not a demand that the band explain or a criticism of them for not explaining.

OK, great. Then we agree. None of this is 'good optics'. We don't know more than we do know, but it may be that Downes and the band are not in a position to explain things outside their knowledge or control. He may have done all he can in his communication.

I think we do have an explanation for Yes's side of the matter. It is unfortunate that there is no explanation for "The Dawn of an Era". I don't want to rush to any judgement on that, but I acknowledge the continuing uncertainty creates bad optics.

Henry

[Mister Triscuits]

My head hurts.

It hurts him to think that she is hurting her by him being hurt to think that she thinks he is hurt by making her feel guilty at hurting him by her thinking...

[moecurlythanu]

My head hurts.

It's a Yes thread. Your head is supposed to hurt.

[jamesmanzi]

but it may be that Downes and the band are not in a position to explain things outside their knowledge or control. He may have done all he can in his communication.

Okay, we agree and all that. But this is still frustrating/amusing. Why do you keep reiterating things I've acknowledged back at me as if you're telling me something new, and not something that I just said to you?

[jamesmanzi]

(I'm done)

[aith01]

It's a Yes thread. Your head is supposed to hurt.

The thread over on yesfans is even worse. Though maybe that's not surprising.

As Battema mentioned earlier, this is a storm in a teacup (IMO). But I guess there can't ever be any new Yes music without some form of drama to accompany it. No pun intended.

As for the song itself, I still kinda like it. I've pre-ordered the colored vinyl edition of The Quest from Laser's Edge.

[bondegezou]

Okay, we agree and all that. But this is still frustrating/amusing. Why do you keep reiterating things I've acknowledged back at me as if you're telling me something new, and not something that I just said to you?

There were some misunderstandings earlier, so repeating back what I thought you said to check I understood you correctly seemed prudent.

Henry

[Progatron]

The thread over on yesfans is even worse. Though maybe that's not surprising.

As Battema mentioned earlier, this is a storm in a teacup (IMO). But I guess there can't ever be any new Yes music without some form of drama to accompany it.

The funny thing is, if this exact same album had a Steve Howe logo on the cover instead of a Yes one, this thread wouldn't even be two pages long.

[bondegezou]

(I'm done)

I was just hanging around until I did a TV interview, so everyone in the UK, watch Good Morning Britain Tuesday morning, where I will be talking about The Quest and Francis Monkman, and I'm off to watch Olympics now.

Henry

PS: OK, I'm not actually talking about The Quest. Sadly, they wanted to talk about COVID-19 and stuff...

[Garyhead]

It's a Yes thread. Your head is supposed to hurt.

[Aquatarkus]

The thread over on yesfans is even worse. Though maybe that's not surprising.

As Battema mentioned earlier, this is a storm in a teacup (IMO). But I guess there can't ever be any new Yes music without some form of drama to accompany it. No pun intended.

As for the song itself, I still kinda like it. I've pre-ordered the colored vinyl edition of The Quest from Laser's Edge.

Definitely not surprising regarding the yes fans forum. I appreciate an occasional read for when I want to visit the Internet through a 2001 time capsule but even when it was new and a few folks from our dev team at Autodesk talked it up, I've never found the conversations there to be all that uplifting and Yes music for me has always been about positivity. It's in the name of the band! Yes! Ok I digress a bit and maybe I should care more about who did what and when, but at the end of the day, I try to stay true to the spirit of the band when listening to new music. I say this when I admit that in the past I have made curmudgeonly statements about how this member or that member didn't fit into 'yes.' These days I take more of a life's too short to worry about all of these things outside of my control. Does the music lift you up? (pun very much intended). Does it make you feel better about being alive in the here and now? Then it's all good in my book. That said, hoping there was no obvious plagiarism intended on Geoff's part. It's a bad look if so.

[Scott Bails]

The thread over on yesfans is even worse. Though maybe that's not surprising.

There's a reason why I've been a fan of this band since the early 80s and have never entered a Yes chatroom/forum.

Love Yes. Hate so many of their "fans."

[moecurlythanu]

Does the music lift you up?

Schwing!

[aith01]

There's a reason why I've been a fan of this band since the early 80s and have never entered a Yes chatroom/forum.

Yeah. Same reason I don't hang out on the yesfans forum (or any Yes forum). I went there to see if there was any info on the whole Monkman thing, and then got caught up in reading that whole thread.

[Aquatarkus]

Schwing!

this made me lol. Sadly the eggplant emoji cannot be used here.

[Dan Roth]

So, I emailed Francis Monkman. Below are the email that I sent him and his reply, copied word for word:

Greetings Mr. Monkman,

I am writing to you as a fan. I am a long-time fan of your work both in Curved Air and in Sky. I am less familiar with your solo and library work, until recently. As you may have heard over the last week or so, there has been a significant online kerfuffle over the new song released by Yes. It has been pointed out in many online forums that the song is very similar, instrumentally, to a song ("The Dawn of an Era") that was released on your Energism album on Bruton in 1978. (For reference, The Dawn of an Era: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tk9Deekoio , Yes' The Ice Bridge: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbGEa7ju8bg ) .

Geoff Downes, Yes' keyboardist and credited composer, reacted to the discussion on his Twitter thusly:
"1) In regards to recent messages, the original idea for The Ice Bridge track appears on a 1977 showreel of mine at a time when I was composing jingles and library music for a West End music production company.

2) Over the last couple of years, I have been looking at some of these early ideas, and felt that this one was suitable for further development. GD"

Because The Dawn of an Era is so similar to the Yes track and apparently Geoff's showreel from '77, I was wondering if you have any recollection to your composing/recording of it. Had you any exposure to Geoff's earlier recording and perhaps based your song on his? Or perhaps the other way around? I understand that library/production music may not have the same evolutionary process that a "regular" piece of work may have, and am curious how this all came to be.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and I look forward to your response. (I would also love to hear what you have been up to since your last website update in 2012.)

Best,
Dan Roth


Greetings, Dan!

Thanks for making me aware of that - in fact coincidentally I'd just
been informed a few minutes before your mail arrived. Anyway, all seems
resolved - Geoff has supplied an mp3 of the cassette (with a cue sheet
from his then-company HMM) and it's clearly a copy of our recording of
"Dawn of an Era". Aaron Harry, then at Bruton, tells me that they sent
round a few copies of tracks (presumably as-yet untitled) after the
recordings were made (in Summer, 1977 at Lansdowne Studios). On the cue
sheet it's simply entitled 'library track', while all Geoff's pieces and
ideas that precede it have a 'GDxx' tag (xx being a two digit number).
So there really doesn't seem to be any doubt about it - a simple mistake
so no hard feelings (hope Yes fans feel the same!). I expect I'll hear
from Geoff tomorrow, as I'm already in touch with Yes's management (who
I already know, as they're also Curved Air's).

Since 2012 I've mainly been continuing my dedication to playing the
music of JSB and his forbears (Buxtehude's Praeludia are wonderful), as
well as recording more Scarlatti and JSB on hpschd since 'lockdown'.
I've also discovered a good recording of 'urdance', a four-movement
piece I expanded from an original Synclavier-programmed demo from 1981
(the recording is from the Guildhall School of Music in 1994). Anyway,
one way or another I seem to have put together somewhere around 40 CDs
since moving out of London in 2001. You probably already know about the
re-mastered Curved Air albums (1-3) and various other discoveries, like
the 1972 Germersheim Festival tapes... let me know if you'd like some of
the Bach etc CDs, always happy to pass them around...

Best wishes,

Francis

[awebert]

Wow!!! So Geoff thought he wrote it but nicked it? I guess it was 45 years ago so who could blame him for not remembering...

[Wil]

Thank goodness that's that resolved and good to hear about what Francis is up to now. I've had a couple of his library tracks floating around in my head since I was a kid in the '70s as his Release Of Energy tracks from KPM's Classical Concussion LP was used by Odeon in their cinemas as part of the pre-movie ads/trailers bit.

[bondegezou]

Wow!!! So Geoff thought he wrote it but nicked it? I guess it was 45 years ago so who could blame him for not remembering...

I think you're misreading that. I think he's saying that it was Downes', but it got mislabelled as a library track, so that's why he recorded it.

Henry

[bondegezou]

I think you're misreading that. I think he's saying that it was Downes', but it got mislabelled as a library track, so that's why he recorded it.

Or am I misreading it? I'm confused. Now I think you're right!

Henry

[aith01]

I'm confused too.

[JJ88]

It sounds to me like it was included on a 'showreel' tape alongside Downes' tracks. This possibility was suggested to me elsewhere a few days ago.

[dpt3]

I wonder if it's too late to change the liner notes to give FM a writing credit?

[chalkpie]

I think you're misreading that. I think he's saying that it was Downes', but it got mislabelled as a library track, so that's why he recorded it.

Henry

That's how I interpreted it also. I need to check out his Bach stuff.

[Mister Triscuits]

it's clearly a copy of our recording of "Dawn of an Era".

all Geoff's pieces and ideas that precede it have a 'GDxx' tag

It seems clear to me that he's saying it's his piece that was on a tape alongside the pieces by Downes (marked GD).