New YES album "The Quest" out 1 Oct

[bondegezou]

I actually liked the song, though it kind of meanders along at the end. But this is most certainly lifted wholesale from Francis Monkman. I wouldn't have a problem with it if Francis was credited. It just seems very sleazy to try to sell this off as an original piece of music. Downes is a very prolific composer. I wouldn't have expected this from him. Very disturbing.

A lot of people rushed to judgement here. Now we have an explanation, I hope you are all going to drop an apology note in this thread?

(But, you're right, "The Ice Bridge" does kind of meander along at the end.)

Henry

[bondegezou]

im quite disappointed that they are offering glow in the dark vinyl for the deluxe box set release, which has now put me off getting it and instead going for the standard vinyl release. glow in the dark vinyl is always, by the nature of its production, much lower quality and quite noisy, so for this to be the type included in the deluxe box is baffling. i guess they expect the deluxe box to be more of a display item and so have prioritised aesthetics over the quality. but would have liked some of the other frills! instrumental and 5.1 mix I will miss

Why does glow in the dark make the vinyl more noisy?

But, sure, I understood the vast majority of all vinyl releases were there to look pretty while people listen to their much more convenient digital downloads. :-)

Henry

[Nashorn]

Come on, NOBODY has claimed that Yes didn't actually play the instruments on this song.

I think Vangelis played the keyboards here.

[Top Cat]

Why does glow in the dark make the vinyl more noisy?

But, sure, I understood the vast majority of all vinyl releases were there to look pretty while people listen to their much more convenient digital downloads. :-)

Henry

I've never heard of glow in the dark vinyl until now. I do know the Picture vinyl albums are pretty low quality because of the layer that is put on top with the picture(can't explain the process because I don't know). Evidently, colored vinyl is just as good as the black version.

Not too long ago while perusing the vinyl section at our local WalMart, I came across Prince's Purple Rain and was tempted to get it, but it was the picture disk version.
I decided to do some research online when I got back home, and it seems those are mostly for collectors and not meant to be listened to due to their inferior sound.
Once my Purple Rain vinyl lust had already taken hold, I wound up ordering a new copy on ebay and love it.

[auxfnx]

Why does glow in the dark make the vinyl more noisy?

as far as i know, it's the added phosphorescent powder on the vinyl they use to make it glow that causes the issue!

[the winter tree]

A lot of people rushed to judgement here. Now we have an explanation, I hope you are all going to drop an apology note in this thread?

(But, you're right, "The Ice Bridge" does kind of meander along at the end.)

Henry

I have no problem apologizing to Downes if what he says is true.
It was certainly a strange scenario and very shocking when the Monkman video showed. But as I stated, I found it odd that a composer as prolific as Downes would resort to stealing from another artist and in so blatant a fashion. I am still very curious to hear how it ended up on a video credited to Monkman and also, as someone else mentioned, his solo debut. I have no problem with artists going back to their archives and voice pulling out old ideas. I used to do it all the time.

[moecurlythanu]

A lot of people rushed to judgement here. Now we have an explanation, I hope you are all going to drop an apology note in this thread?

36 pages by midnight or bust!

[bondegezou]

I've never heard of glow in the dark vinyl until now. I do know the Picture vinyl albums are pretty low quality because of the layer that is put on top with the picture(can't explain the process because I don't know). Evidently, colored vinyl is just as good as the black version.

All the coloured vinyl variants are being advertised as 180g, so they should be the same as the black version.

Henry

[Halmyre]

I've never heard of glow in the dark vinyl until now. I do know the Picture vinyl albums are pretty low quality because of the layer that is put on top with the picture(can't explain the process because I don't know). Evidently, colored vinyl is just as good as the black version.

Not too long ago while perusing the vinyl section at our local WalMart, I came across Prince's Purple Rain and was tempted to get it, but it was the picture disk version.
I decided to do some research online when I got back home, and it seems those are mostly for collectors and not meant to be listened to due to their inferior sound.
Once my Purple Rain vinyl lust had already taken hold, I wound up ordering a new copy on ebay and love it.

Kraftwerk released a 12" Neon Lights single in glow-in-the-dark vinyl back in 1978.

[bondegezou]

I have no problem apologizing to Downes if what he says is true.
It was certainly a strange scenario and very shocking when the Monkman video showed. But as I stated, I found it odd that a composer as prolific as Downes would resort to stealing from another artist and in so blatant a fashion. I am still very curious to hear how it ended up on a video credited to Monkman and also, as someone else mentioned, his solo debut. I have no problem with artists going back to their archives and voice pulling out old ideas. I used to do it all the time.

The Monkman release was not what you would usually think of as a solo debut. Aymeric (Calyx) did an interview with him here: http://www.calyx-canterbury.fr/interviews/fmonkman.html It was done for a music production company, library music, and the whole thing was recorded in 2 days. It was then subsequently turned into a "regular" solo album.

I see no reason to imagine Downes would have made up a story about a serious issue like this. That would make no sense. How his 1977 showreel ended up influencing the Monkman piece a year later is unknown, but I'm not certain speculation here would be that useful. Downes doing something for a music production company in 1977 and then Monkman doing something for a music production company the next year, it's not hard to imagine a link. There are odd things about the Monkman release, like how there's another piece on it that is surprisingly similar to Vangelis's earlier "Pulstar". But we all jumped to conclusions when we first heard the Monkman video, it was very shocking as you say, and it turns out there's an explanation -- Downes used his own earlier 1977 ideas on "The Ice Bridge" -- so I don't want to jump to conclusions about what Monkman was doing.

That's my bottom line, my take-home message... The community online can be really good at finding things -- as with turning up the Monkman piece -- but the community online is also really bad when it comes to jumping to conclusions and imagining that they can solve every mystery. We can't.

Henry

[the winter tree]

It was pretty hard not to jump to conclusions when first hearing the Monkman video. Things like this are not an every day occurrence.

[bondegezou]

It was pretty hard not to jump to conclusions when first hearing the Monkman video. Things like this are not an every day occurrence.

It was certainly surprising, no doubt about that. But maybe we can learn from what happened? Even when it's very tempting to jump to conclusions, it can be good to hold back.

Henry

[ThomasKDye]

A lot of people rushed to judgement here. Now we have an explanation, I hope you are all going to drop an apology note in this thread?

I definitely apologize, but I had no idea: 1) Downes EVER wrote commercial jingles before the Buggles, 2) Monkman also wrote commercial music, and 3) in that pursuit Monkman used what was clearly someone else's piece ("Pulstar"). Once Downes explained it, the potential scenario fell into place.

Perhaps if I had been Downes I might have thought twice to avoid the appearance of impropriety, but at the same time, if he did write it, it was his right to use it however he saw fit. And to those saying "Well he should explain how it appeared on the Monkman album," maybe he's too much of a pro to say "The d-bag stole it." As people have said before, music credits can be muddled, especially if you're trying to create something for a deadline.

(But, you're right, "The Ice Bridge" does kind of meander along at the end.)

I still think that repeated guitar line that Howe plays in between solos is a solid hook, one I find myself actually humming along to, and it helps the bit not seem so overdone. But yeah, it could have used a change or some intense drum buildups or something.

[bondegezou]

I definitely apologize, but I had no idea: 1) Downes EVER wrote commercial jingles before the Buggles, 2) Monkman also wrote commercial music, and 3) in that pursuit Monkman used what was clearly someone else's piece ("Pulstar"). Once Downes explained it, the potential scenario fell into place.

Perhaps if I had been Downes I might have thought twice to avoid the appearance of impropriety, but at the same time, if he did write it, it was his right to use it however he saw fit. And to those saying "Well he should explain how it appeared on the Monkman album," maybe he's too much of a pro to say "The d-bag stole it." As people have said before, music credits can be muddled, especially if you're trying to create something for a deadline.

We don't know if Downes even knew before last week about the Monkman piece. Maybe it's all news to him and so he chose not to comment on it until he found out more. Maybe he knew all about it and there was some deal done at the time and he just didn't think it was important. I've no idea, and I don't see how we can work it out in the absence of further announcements!

Henry

[irongoalie]

I didn't see this in the last 18 pages, but aren't the first 2 notes EXACTLY THE SAME as "Touch and Go" by ELPowell?

[Mister Triscuits]

I didn't see this in the last 18 pages, but aren't the first 2 notes EXACTLY THE SAME as "Touch and Go" by ELPowell?

Yes, but Geoff Downes recorded it first, on a cassette he sent to his mother in 1985.

[Koreabruce]

Those are also the first two notes of the Chariots of Fire Main Titles music. The actual synth sound Downes is using sounds pretty close to the one in the ELPowell tune.

[Camelogue]

This thread has jumped the shark.

[Scott Bails]

I think Vangelis played the keyboards here.

I find it very hard to believe that Anderson played that.

Perhaps if I had been Downes I might have thought twice to avoid the appearance of impropriety, but at the same time, if he did write it, it was his right to use it however he saw fit. And to those saying "Well he should explain how it appeared on the Monkman album," maybe he's too much of a pro to say "The d-bag stole it." As people have said before, music credits can be muddled, especially if you're trying to create something for a deadline.

Many seem to be assuming that Downes was even aware of Monkman's work.

[helix]

Some folks are pretty quick to jump on anything that might make the current Yes lineup look bad.

From Frumious B on YesFans:


You certainly seem pleased at the thought of others failing.

Frum is by far one of the biggest purveyors of this snark with basically never adding anything to any topic. ever


one of those message board posters you can read in the Simpsons comic book man voice

[helix]

I thought it was a poor track when I heard it and still think it’s poor. I don’t begrudge people liking it or the current Yes in any way, shape or fashion. What does tick me off are some of the more gushing fans who will fall on their swords for this band, engage in revisionist history to prop them up and then insinuate that I’m some kind of malevolent, chaotic force of evil or some crap like that. If that were my MO then my best strategy would be to pretend to like the record only to twist the knife later because everyone all ready assumes I’m not going to like it. When I get into it with them I tend to shoot from the hip.

So no. I’m not pleased at the thought of others failing.

no one gives a fck about your opinion and more importantly, how you feel you fit into the grand scheme of these conversations.


total masochist . wtf

[Facelift]

That Ice Bridge video is utter crap. Barely a melody. Not a single solo worth hearing twice. If anyone else released this nobody would watch it at all. If that's the best on the album then they should be ashamed.

I'm not calling it "utter crap" - Heaven & Earth is utter crap - but this isn't something that interests me. It's a bunch of guys - Downes included - playing dress-up. Like every new Yes album I will listen to it to give it a chance, but this song doesn't bode too well, IMO.

[Facelift]

Anyone else think the lyrical theme is pretty dopey? Questing for fire?

The lyrics are terrible. But I'll admit I probably wouldn't care if I liked the music more. It's not like I've never ignored lyrics in a prog song before.

[fiberman]

[QUOTE=Scott Bails;1059550]I find it very hard to believe that Anderson played that.

?

[Sunlight Caller]

Just back from a long weekend away and I was shocked at how much this thread had grown legs in the last few days. Having caught up I’m still none the wiser. Do we have any proof as to who wrote the track first? Personally I’m not too worried, provided credit is given where it is due, and it still seems this one is wrapped in grey, but perhaps I’ve mis-read something along the way.

As far as the actual track goes, it is perfectly pleasant and it has more energy and is going in a better direction than last time out. I do not want to disparage, but the constant search into decades old files for recyclable themes is understood, but is not really what I’m looking for in the band at this stage. I hoped they would have something new to say, and perhaps this track is an aberration, and the rest will knock me for six. I’ll wait and see, I wish them well, but I always do, Yes has been a part of my life for a long time now, they owe me nothing.