New YES album "The Quest" out 1 Oct

[Aquatarkus]

There where plenty of empty seats at the Leeds gig I went to. Plus some people thought it was going to be half a Collins set & half a Genesis set. The group of middle aged ladies behind me in the queue said they had come to see Phil Collins; having never seen Genesis before. Am sure they wernt alone! Take Phil Collins out of the equation and they'd be playing the same size theatres as YES.

^ This! In fact, we've already seen this be true in regards to Genesis. They canceled the American leg of their Calling All Stations tour in 1998 due to poor ticket sales. The promoter's original idea was to play smaller venues than in previous tours but the band didn't go for it and sans Phil, they didn't end up finishing the tour. It made me sad at the time given I'm a Ray Wilson fan and thought the gigs they played in Europe were excellent. Tony and Mike weren't interested in scaling back and essentially ended the band except for nostalgic reunion tours in 2007 and the present. It still bums me out honestly. At least Yes is still making new music. I suspect as long as Steve Howe wants to carry the flame Yes will have an audience of respectable size in terms of live performance. If Steve (apologies to Alan) were to leave the current incarnation I suspect we'd see similar ticket sales to something like Asia featuring John Payne.

[Rick L.]

Or just join the circus. Of Heaven.

There were no clowns. But, there was an aunt with balls!

[Poisoned Youth]

The average prog fan has been listening to Yes and Genesis for decades. It doesn't mean that they can't or won't enjoy new musical ideas, but Yes and Genesis are important pieces of many people's life journey, whatever the merits of their current musical offerings.

Not that I'm necessarily endorsing this new album (because I'm not), but I think its alright to dig the new Yes AND the new SKE (or whatever album by a lesser known band). Why does it have to be one over the other?

Who said that it does? Sean didn't above

Right. To clarify, the key point is the "100x bandwidth", not that you can't like both. One could say that a Yes album receives magnification.

let me present an opposite perspective. Fans appear to be much harsher on Yes' new releases than those of any new band. If something like The Quest were released by a new band I think folks would find a lot to like. It wouldn't constantly be compared to past glories and all the expectations and memories associated with them.

This is probably true. There is a certainly a "train wreck" aspect to a new Yes release or Phil Collins belting out Genesis tunes from a chair. But as the years go by, even as both artists are clearly at their journey's end, they still get exponentially ludicrous level of attention compared to new prog artists, even 50 years after the fact.

The problem that newer band putting out something like The Quest is that no one would hear it.

I think most of these newer bands would tell you they would rather be getting "bad press" than no press at all. I am disappointed that a very large percentage of the prog fanbase (keep in mind I said prog fans, not Yes fans or Genesis fans) got off the train at some point 15-20 years ago. As each decade progresses, the attention that emerging artists receive continues to dwindle. And 2010 and onward has been the worst decade for that yet. But that's a subject for another thread, I suppose. Cheers!

[moecurlythanu]

She would be selling out theaters larger than where Yes plays?

Or just join the circus. Of Heaven.

I purposely didn't finish the phrase, because I wanted to see what you guys would come up with.

[Progatron]

Right. To clarify, the key point is the "100x bandwidth", not that you can't like both. One could say that a Yes album receives magnification.

This is probably true. There is a certainly a "train wreck" aspect to a new Yes release or Phil Collins belting out Genesis tunes from a chair. But as the years go by, even as both artists are clearly at their journey's end, they still get exponentially ludicrous level of attention compared to new prog artists, even 50 years after the fact.

Definitely agree (except for PC 'belting out' tunes ) I think there is a contingent of us here that are happy to talk about bands new and old, with either 50-year legacies or just one album thus far. I know I certainly am, I just like to talk about music I love. But anywhere you look, it's the big bands that command the lion's share of the attention. If you really want to see something die, go to the 'Prog Magazine' FB group and post about a relatively unknown band that most prog fans would love. Include a YT video so people can get a feel for it, and a quick description: "Fans of Änglagård and King Crimson must check this out, guaranteed you'll dig it!" ... it will get 3 'likes' (one of those from a band member), no feedback, and will fall away, never to be seen again.

Post "I don't get what the big deal is about Close To The Edge", and you'll have 260 comments in an hour. A new Ciccada album? Couldn't care less. A new album with the Roger Dean 'Yes' logo on the cover? "Time to brew a pot of coffee and crack my knuckles, I've got a lot of typing to do!" The majority of people just don't seem interested in expanding their horizons. They want to listen to the same hundred albums by the same dozen bands (and their offshoot solo members), and that's all they're interested in talking about too. Some of them have been saying the same things for literally 30 years on the internet now. It boggles my mind, and is frustrating, but like you said, not likely to ever change.

[Top Cat]

I don't think the behavior of hardcore prog fans is exclusive to just the progressive rock community.
Go to any other genre and there will be a core of fans who worship certain bands or artists, and develop a certain snobbery and lack of interest to anything new.
Add to the mix the state of the music industry the unwillingness of fans to buy an entire album, but instead focusing on one song to download, that sense of loyalty that exited is no longer there for new bands to get wider exposure.
People won't listen to new music, and if they do, they wind up listening for 30 seconds and bail out because they want instant gratification to have all their prog boxes checked.
I've seen more new music posted in our other forums, some by well known artists who will get 300 views and only about 5 replies. It's frustrating to watch.
For instance the new Rachel Flowers album on Bandcamp was posted, to me it's very fresh, with prog elements, great production, but no one is commenting but a few.
So to me, part of what Sean stated is true, but I think a lot of members here are more open to new music, and for the most part more flexible.

I think prog as we know it will fade into the twilight as folks from my generation also fade into the great white light.
I've lived through the early days of Progressive Rock, bands like Genesis, Yes, ELP, Pink Floyd, etc, followed by the second tier, Marillion, IQ, Arena, Pendragon, etc.
Newer progressive bands who can find a way to maintain the spirit of the genre, but not be a re-hash, nostalgic, copcat are harder to find. Then there are some who try too hard to not sound anything like their predecessors, they are too difficult to listen to(at least to me).

(I don't think I expressed myself very well, but I hope you get the gist of it)

[aith01]

I like ABWH songs on Union quite much.

Me too actually.

I’m less keen on the YesWest tracks, although Miracle of Life is pretty cool.

[JJ88]

There where plenty of empty seats at the Leeds gig I went to.

I must say, for someone who has whined about them/Collins as much as you have on here, you've sent more money their way than I ever have.

The average prog fan has been listening to Yes and Genesis for decades. It doesn't mean that they can't or won't enjoy new musical ideas, but Yes and Genesis are important pieces of many people's life journey, whatever the merits of their current musical offerings.

Just from my own perspective, my current ambivalence toward The Quest is as much to do with how I've changed musically over the last decade or so as it is toward the album's merits. I find a lot of "symphonic" prog, new and old, to not be resonating with me the way it used to. I need more musical shades of gray and spontaneity than I used to.

Yes not sure why this (in bold) is such a controversial view TBH.

As for this? Well, as with the previous album, I heard the preview tracks and didn't like them. (And there was talk of those being the best tracks! Wow!) Same for Hackett's new stuff.

[Progatron]

as with the previous album, I heard the preview tracks and didn't like them. (And there was talk of those being the best tracks! Wow!) Same for Hackett's new stuff.

I like the Hackett. I know he's kinda been making the same album for a while now, but I like the music. If Yes had kept making Keys To Ascension or Magnification over and over again, I would have liked those too.

[JJ88]

^I'm glad Hackett is doing well- the Genesis Revisited touring has raised the profile of his newer stuff, which is a 'win win' for him really. But he's found his groove, it's fair to say!

[aith01]

^ This! In fact, we've already seen this be true in regards to Genesis. They canceled the American leg of their Calling All Stations tour in 1998 due to poor ticket sales. The promoter's original idea was to play smaller venues than in previous tours but the band didn't go for it and sans Phil, they didn't end up finishing the tour. It made me sad at the time given I'm a Ray Wilson fan and thought the gigs they played in Europe were excellent. Tony and Mike weren't interested in scaling back and essentially ended the band except for nostalgic reunion tours in 2007 and the present. It still bums me out honestly. At least Yes is still making new music. I suspect as long as Steve Howe wants to carry the flame Yes will have an audience of respectable size in terms of live performance. If Steve (apologies to Alan) were to leave the current incarnation I suspect we'd see similar ticket sales to something like Asia featuring John Payne.

Oh no, don’t encourage Rufus! You know he hates Phil Collins and would love to see him fail, right?

Yes might be making new music, but when they tour they are playing 98% old material from their heyday. When I saw them in 2014, they played two songs from H&E, while the rest was from the classic albums. I’m actually fine with that though.

I’d say there’s not a lot of difference between what Yes and Genesis are doing in concert.

[bondegezou]

I don't think the behavior of hardcore prog fans is exclusive to just the progressive rock community.
Go to any other genre and there will be a core of fans who worship certain bands or artists, and develop a certain snobbery and lack of interest to anything new.
Add to the mix the state of the music industry the unwillingness of fans to buy an entire album, but instead focusing on one song to download, that sense of loyalty that exited is no longer there for new bands to get wider exposure.
People won't listen to new music, and if they do, they wind up listening for 30 seconds and bail out because they want instant gratification to have all their prog boxes checked.
I've seen more new music posted in our other forums, some by well known artists who will get 300 views and only about 5 replies. It's frustrating to watch.
For instance the new Rachel Flowers album on Bandcamp was posted, to me it's very fresh, with prog elements, great production, but no one is commenting but a few.
So to me, part of what Sean stated is true, but I think a lot of members here are more open to new music, and for the most part more flexible.

Indeed. It's the same in all genres, and beyond. People go to a restaurant and order what they always have. "I know what I like and I like what I know" isn't just a Genesis lyric. People are neophobic. Occasionally that frustrates me, but, on the other hand, people have big, complicated lives. Some people don't have much money. Some people don't have much time. Some people just want to listen to songs from when they were younger. If they want to stick to the music they know, that's their choice.

I started the Rachel Flowers album thread because I thought, "This is some cool music that other people might like to know about." I knew it wouldn't get to 34 pages, but if it gets some interest, great. When I look at PE.com's front page, yes, there are usually threads about the dinosaurs, Yes, Crimson, Genesis, Tull, but there are also threads about... well, let me go check... Wobbler, Glass Hammer, Allium, Dreadnaught, District 97, Jack O' The Clock etc. So, hats off to PE.com and Sean, because it offers a way in to lots of music. It opens a door: different people will choose how far to walk in.

Henry

[aith01]

So, hats off to PE.com and Sean, because it offers a way in to lots of music. It opens a door: different people will choose how far to walk in.

Henry

Nicely put.

[bondegezou]

Yes might be making new music, but when they tour they are playing 98% old material from their heyday. When I saw them in 2014, they played two songs from H&E, while the rest was from the classic albums. I’m actually fine with that though.

I’d say there’s not a lot of difference between what Yes and Genesis are doing in concert.

They played well over half of Fly from Here for a while. They've talked about doing some of The Quest live, but we'll have to see how much... although I suspect it will be more than 2% of the show!

Henry

[aith01]

One could say that a Yes album receives magnification.

[Sunlight Caller]

I started the Rachel Flowers album thread because I thought, "This is some cool music that other people might like to know about." I knew it wouldn't get to 34 pages, but if it gets some interest, great. When I look at PE.com's front page, yes, there are usually threads about the dinosaurs, Yes, Crimson, Genesis, Tull, but there are also threads about... well, let me go check... Wobbler, Glass Hammer, Allium, Dreadnaught, District 97, Jack O' The Clock etc. So, hats off to PE.com and Sean, because it offers a way in to lots of music. It opens a door: different people will choose how far to walk in.

Henry

Here here, and that’s why I’ll always check in to PE. I’m fascinated by the bands I grew up loving in the 70’s, and their stories are still being spun out, so I’ll follow them to their conclusion. I also love new music, and consider it a failing if I’m not discovering something to share with my peers. I have friends who recommend new finds each week, but I can’t keep their pace. I think the case with new music, is that there’s just so much of it, that it’s very hard for a thread to get traction.

[aith01]

They played well over half of Fly from Here for a while. They've talked about doing some of The Quest live, but we'll have to see how much... although I suspect it will be more than 2% of the show!

Henry

I would have loved to see them bring back FFH in concert when I saw them in 2013 and 2014. IIRC, Yes started seeing more success when they began doing the "classic albums" tours, playing those 70s albums in their entirety.

And I definitely just pulled the 98% statistic out of my hat. Just to illustrate that the majority of the 2014 show that I saw was comprised of old material. Not that I'm complaining; I was happy as a clam to actually see those guys perform some of my favorite Yes songs from back then. I'd be fine if they played some stuff from The Quest in concert, if I were to see them again.

When it comes to the "Yes vs. Genesis" thing, I don't think that's a good argument to have. Genesis hasn't been able to make new music at least in part because Phil hasn't been able to play drums for the past 10+ years. Sure, Tony and Mike could write music and Phil could sing on it, but it would be more akin to CAS and it would probably not feel like the same band anymore. I also don't know how many folks here would even like a new Genesis album, given the odds of what it would probably sound like.

[Rufus]

^ This! In fact, we've already seen this be true in regards to Genesis. They canceled the American leg of their Calling All Stations tour in 1998 due to poor ticket sales. The promoter's original idea was to play smaller venues than in previous tours but the band didn't go for it and sans Phil, they didn't end up finishing the tour. It made me sad at the time given I'm a Ray Wilson fan and thought the gigs they played in Europe were excellent. Tony and Mike weren't interested in scaling back and essentially ended the band except for nostalgic reunion tours in 2007 and the present. It still bums me out honestly. At least Yes is still making new music. I suspect as long as Steve Howe wants to carry the flame Yes will have an audience of respectable size in terms of live performance. If Steve (apologies to Alan) were to leave the current incarnation I suspect we'd see similar ticket sales to something like Asia featuring John Payne.

BTW, the new Ray Wilson CD is excellent!

[Rufus]

I must say, for someone who has whined about them/Collins as much as you have on here, you've sent more money their way than I ever have.



Yes not sure why this (in bold) is such a controversial view TBH.

As for this? Well, as with the previous album, I heard the preview tracks and didn't like them. (And there was talk of those being the best tracks! Wow!) Same for Hackett's new stuff.

Partially true, a mate had a spare ticket he couldn't sell on so I offered him half price and he accepted!
I did recently obtain the 'Blue Box' for a £100 to complete the set of four though! It was the only one I didnt buy on release, just the standalone Trick of the Tale and Wind & Wuthering. It's just a completist thing and the other discs will probably remain unplayed; just like the follow-up box which is still on the shelf shrink wrapped!

[Yeswave]

...If Steve (apologies to Alan) were to leave the current incarnation I suspect we'd see similar ticket sales to something like Asia featuring John Payne.

Harsh. I saw a couple of Asia shows with John Payne and there we’re little more that 3 men and a dog in attendance. There were still great shows.

[jamesmanzi]

Why does it have to be one over the other?

If there's one thing I've learned from online fandom, it's that music is a contest. Bands need to be compared to each other so that it can be determined whose music is better. Music shouldn't be judged on its own merits; its value can only be understood once we know what other music it's better and worse than.

[jamesmanzi]

For the record, and I don't see much point in discussing it at length, I like The Quest a lot.

[Paulrus]

There is a certainly a "train wreck" aspect to a new Yes release or Phil Collins belting out Genesis tunes from a chair. But as the years go by, even as both artists are clearly at their journey's end, they still get exponentially ludicrous level of attention compared to new prog artists, even 50 years after the fact.

Both are at their journey's end. It's not going to be long before we'll all be talking a lot more about other bands because Yes and Genesis will simply cease to exist.

Although I guess there will probably be 34-page threads about Bill vs. Alan...

[Sunlight Caller]

For the record, and I don't see much point in discussing it at length, I like The Quest a lot.

I for one am interested in hearing what aspects are drawing people into the music. I’ve played it each day since release and a few things are staying with me, so I can see that a little perseverance may soften my initial reaction.

[BBTPassenger]

Amazon are now predicting delivery between 23 October and 26 November.

This is getting worse than waiting for McCartney's Press to Play back in 1986. Hope its half as good.