VDGG box!

[battema]

Just because both hilarious and frustrating:

Shipped from Wayside last week (thanks as ever, Steve!). Wayside is roughly 29 miles away from me. Arrived about a day and a half later at Dulles, 16 miles away from me. Scheduled to be delivered today.

Yesterday afternoon, box went from Dulles to Norfolk, a little over 200 miles away. Prrrrrretty sure it ain't arriving today. Maybe they're shipping it to England so PH and crew can autograph it

Viva la postal system, you bastards


PS: in case anyone misinterpreted the above, issue is NOT with Wayside, who did awesome as always. Issue is with carrier competence, who...well, they're consistent in terms of quality, so maybe I just need to lower my expectations to zero.

[Progatron]

If the scratches are cosmetic only then who cares? The only point of a disc is for it to play so if mine are scratched a little, it doesn't bother me.

They have no protection whatsoever. If a disc gets cosmetic-only scratches on it's first removal from a box, then what kind of scratches will it have on it's hundredth? This 'who cares if your expensive boxed set gets damaged' outlook is not one I share. I care. This isn't a 12 dollar CD that will be in print until the end of time, this is something I want to preserve as best I can, and the manufacturing of these things is making that difficult right from the word go.

I've found in the past with these situations that people make excuses and say "You should just store them separately then, or you should buy this or that". No, they should put some care into the longevity of something that people are shelling out hundreds of dollars for. I don't think that's unreasonable. Do the vinyl LPs come just shoved in their covers too? I have boxes on the shelf that I sometimes pass over because of things like this.

Like Elaine Benes trying to decide if it's really 'spongeworthy'.

[Skeptrick]

Mine arrived today! Can't wait to dig deep into this!

[Progatron]

The sound is excellent, thumbs-up to Stephen Tayler for this remix.

Hugely disappointed though, that Squid One/Squid Two/Octopus is not included. Perhaps it is on the full box, but I was led to believe by someone on another forum that it was on the Pawn Hearts DVD in the 3-disc set. But it's nowhere to be found on that. So looks like I have to hang on to the hideous 2005 remaster of H To He in order to retain that track.

[Skeptrick]

Squid/Octopus is on the disc in the box set called Pawn Hearts Sessions, and it does say new stereo mix by Stephen W. Tayler for that track. Kind of surprised it is isn't of the Pawn Hearts set...

[Progatron]

Squid/Octopus is on the disc in the box set called Pawn Hearts Sessions, and it does say new stereo mix by Stephen W. Tayler for that track. Kind of surprised it is isn't of the Pawn Hearts set...

Yeah, me too, especially after I had been led to believe it was (not by anyone here).

[JJ88]

^Yes, I noticed when looking within a link posted in this thread that the tracklist of the box and the four separate releases are not the same. Creating different releases must have meant more work for someone. Looking online, I don't see 'Squid/Octopus' listed on a DVD even on the box...only a CD.

Fully agree with you and others about crappy packaging causing scratches as well, and really hate that blase 'who cares, just send your money, shut up and smile' attitude some seem to have.

[lovecraft]

Are people saying that they have had actual experience of cardboard scratching cds? Surely the worst it could do is scuff it i.e. potentially leave a mark which could be easily removed?

In other news, yes I would have preferred proper sleeves and certainly the white design is not that attractive but in the big scheme of things.......

[alanterrill]

The sound is excellent, thumbs-up to Stephen Tayler for this remix.

Hugely disappointed though, that Squid One/Squid Two/Octopus is not included. Perhaps it is on the full box, but I was led to believe by someone on another forum that it was on the Pawn Hearts DVD in the 3-disc set. But it's nowhere to be found on that. So looks like I have to hang on to the hideous 2005 remaster of H To He in order to retain that track.

From Burning Shed's page, the track listing for the DVD is:

1. Lemmings (including Cog)
2. Man Erg
3. A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers
a) Eyewitness
b) Pictures / Lighthouse
c) Eyewitness
d) SHM
e) Presence of the Night
f) Kosmos Tours
g) (Custard’s) Last Stand
h) The Clot Thickens
i) Land’s End (Sineline)
j) We Go Now

Bonus tracks

4. Theme One
5. W
6. Squid / Octopus

Do you have a track 6?

[Munster]

The track listing on Burning Shed seems at fault here. If you look on Amazon.co.uk and go to Pawn Hearts and then look at the image of the back cover of the 2CD/1DVD version, you will see that just Theme One and W are listed as bonus tracks on the DVD. This is despite the Burning Shed listing (as shown above) giving Squid/Octopus as one of the bonus tracks.

A question around the remix of Squid/Octopus was raised on the Hoffman site (Van Der Graaf coming in 5.1, from entry 1109 on) and Stephen replied thus: 'Yes - I did a new mix - actually the point of mixing it was in surround - but I guess that didn't end up being included after all. The new mix is not very different as it was live to only 8 track, so there wasn't much to play with - except maybe make the vocal a bit clearer.'

[moecurlythanu]

Hopefully, this is the answer to the CD storage problem:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/22444677325...c100044.m43681

[Progatron]

Do you have a track 6?

No.

The track listing on Burning Shed seems at fault here. If you look on Amazon.co.uk and go to Pawn Hearts and then look at the image of the back cover of the 2CD/1DVD version, you will see that just Theme One and W are listed as bonus tracks on the DVD. This is despite the Burning Shed listing (as shown above) giving Squid/Octopus as one of the bonus tracks.

Yes, it seems not everyone updated their info with the correct information. That's rather irritating to me, and I also don't understand why it was removed from the final product.

Hopefully, this is the answer to the CD storage problem:

Not for a box like this, where the discs fit snugly into slits made into the cardboard. Unless you mean store the discs separately from the box, which I have done with a couple of others, keeping them in CD wallets (like the Ant Phillips and Tony Banks book-sized boxes where I thought the discs were going to snap in half trying to get them off the pinholders).

Are people saying that they have had actual experience of cardboard scratching cds? Surely the worst it could do is scuff it i.e. potentially leave a mark which could be easily removed?

Smudges and fingerprints are easily removed, scuffs rarely so. And the result after taking the discs in and out of the package numerous times tends to be a lot of scuffing, leading to greater probability of actual scratches that can cause skips. The other point to be made here is that anyone ever looking to resell something like this in the future cannot grade a very scuffed CD as "NM" or even "VG+" in good conscience. I don't sell these things myself, but as a collector who takes pride in having releases such as this, it sucks to have that happen so quickly, even when you take great care. Yes, I can purchase some plastic sleeves or whatever, but the bottom line here is that I shouldn't have to have a secondary storage space for these things. Simple protection of the contents within should be included in the $300 people shell out.

[alucard]

A bit the same Problem as with vinyl, I didn't care before but nowadays I put all records in coated inner sleeves and all records into Plastik sleeves. Preserves record and cover, but I have also now a very small amount of CDS and DVDS (about 20 years old and always stored in boxes) that have become unreadable due to a chemical reaction I suppose. They lost the shiny aspect and have a darkish colouring .....

[Kcrimso]

Are people saying that they have had actual experience of cardboard scratching cds? Surely the worst it could do is scuff it i.e. potentially leave a mark which could be easily removed?

I have never got any scratches to discs from similar packages as this.

But that said I also would prefer separate sleeves.

[PCMusic]

Hopefully, this is the answer to the CD storage problem:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/22444677325...c100044.m43681

Perhaps worth trying, but I would not be too sure about it. These CD inner sleeves are slightly oversized so if the space is tight they will wrinkle. To listen I am usually making CD-R copies of original CDs so they stay pristine - a habit started when there were still car CD players. Perhaps this is a better solution, although, certainly more tedious.

[PCMusic]

A bit the same Problem as with vinyl, I didn't care before but nowadays I put all records in coated inner sleeves and all records into Plastik sleeves. Preserves record and cover, but I have also now a very small amount of CDS and DVDS (about 20 years old and always stored in boxes) that have become unreadable due to a chemical reaction I suppose. They lost the shiny aspect and have a darkish colouring .....

That is a bit surprising for the CDs to deteriorate. Are they regular CDs or CD-Rs? CD-Rs will do that and it depends a lot on a manufacturer and disc's quality. CDs should be O.K. though, unless stored in damp places (boxed or not) or if the surface of it is damaged (especially the top one), and oxidation process can start and propagate. In my whole CD collection (way more then small amount) I had a couple of CDs (bought as used ones), that showed the oxidation and were barely playable by the time I have noticed. Still salvaged them with the software Exact Audio Copy and a transfer to CD-Rs.

[Progatron]

In a collection of 3,000+ CDs, I've only ever had one suffer the 'CD rot' and become unplayable. Coincidentally to this thread, it was Peter Hammill - The Fall Of The House Of Usher.

[Mascodagama]

In a collection of 3,000+ CDs, I've only ever had one suffer the 'CD rot' and become unplayable. Coincidentally to this thread, it was Peter Hammill - The Fall Of The House Of Usher.

Similar here, but in my case it's an early Robert Cray CD. Of course, with the number of CDs I have there are many I haven't looked at or played for years, so it's possible that there are some others that have quietly rotted without my knowing it. I doubt it, though.

[JJ88]

In a collection of 3,000+ CDs, I've only ever had one suffer the 'CD rot' and become unplayable. Coincidentally to this thread, it was Peter Hammill - The Fall Of The House Of Usher.

From what I've read over the years, this disc was a repeat offender in that regard. I think pretty much all the affected discs came out of the 'PDO UK' plant and developed what is called 'bronzing'.

I had a disc on the BGO label which turned out to be a CD-R (I didn't realise at the time). That corrupted and wouldn't play properly. I did a bit of digging and found that they admitted to briefly pressing CD-Rs of certain albums around the mid 2000s...which was of course when I bought the disc in question. I at least found a second hand copy which was a proper pressing.

[chalkpie]

Similar here, but in my case it's an early Robert Cray CD. Of course, with the number of CDs I have there are many I haven't looked at or played for years, so it's possible that there are some others that have quietly rotted without my knowing it. I doubt it, though.

CDs don't rot, they just ferment.

[chalkpie]

A bit the same Problem as with vinyl, I didn't care before but nowadays I put all records in coated inner sleeves and all records into Plastik sleeves. Preserves record and cover, but I have also now a very small amount of CDS and DVDS (about 20 years old and always stored in boxes) that have become unreadable due to a chemical reaction I suppose. They lost the shiny aspect and have a darkish colouring .....

Yep, all of my vinyl goes into Vinyl Styl inner sleeves....talk about pricey after replacing hundreds of these! All of the complaints regarding these cardboard cd sleeves could also be made with LPs, except the potential damage to vinyl is way worse. Some modern records come with cardboard sleeves that are "padded" inside for protection - like the Tull SW reissues for instance. Some are doing this right at least. I was sooo nervous taking out my Cardiacs LPS from the cardboard sleeves, lots of dough spent on those.

[alucard]

Yep, all of my vinyl goes into Vinyl Styl inner sleeves....talk about pricey after replacing hundreds of these! All of the complaints regarding these cardboard cd sleeves could also be made with LPs, except the potential damage to vinyl is way worse. Some modern records come with cardboard sleeves that are "padded" inside for protection - like the Tull SW reissues for instance. Some are doing this right at least. I was sooo nervous taking out my Cardiacs LPS from the cardboard sleeves, lots of dough spent on those.

What I like are reprints where you get a coated inner sleeve and the cardboard lyrics sleeve as an extra.

[alucard]

That is a bit surprising for the CDs to deteriorate. Are they regular CDs or CD-Rs? CD-Rs will do that and it depends a lot on a manufacturer and disc's quality. CDs should be O.K. though, unless stored in damp places (boxed or not) or if the surface of it is damaged (especially the top one), and oxidation process can start and propagate. In my whole CD collection (way more then small amount) I had a couple of CDs (bought as used ones), that showed the oxidation and were barely playable by the time I have noticed. Still salvaged them with the software Exact Audio Copy and a transfer to CD-Rs.

Regular CDS and DVDs , maybe as you said the sealing process was corrupted and they started to oxidate...

[chalkpie]

What I like are reprints where you get a coated inner sleeve and the cardboard lyrics sleeve as an extra.

Yes

[Mister Triscuits]

From what I've read over the years, this disc was a repeat offender in that regard. I think pretty much all the affected discs came out of the 'PDO UK' plant and developed what is called 'bronzing'.

I think that was an issue with a lot of the early Hammill CD releases on Fie. I seem to remember my original copies of Patience and Enter K went really bad and had to be replaced with later pressings. I still have that original Usher CD on Some Bizarre and it looks pretty bad, I should check if it's still playable and make sure I have it backed up somewhere.