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Thread: Pink Floyd Animals Remix

  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by happytheman View Post
    In the Flesh tour covered a few songs from ATD
    A sizeable chunk, something like 30 minutes or more, of the second set of that show was his solo material, including, I think, 20 minutes from Amused To Death, which I think was a mistake. You could feel the energy in the room shift from when he was doing Pink Floyd songs, to the solo material, which most of the audience obviously didn't know. During Perfect Sense, Roger's walking around the stage looking like he's leading an audience participation segment or something, but the audience clearly "didn't know the words" (or even the melody, for that matter). He should have interspersed the solo material throughout both sets, doing one song at a time, before going bak to the Floyd music.

  2. #102
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    I guess to sum up, Roger thought he was the smartest guy in the room by believing if he left PF, the band would fold. When that didn't happen and the courts backed the Gilmour and Mason up, well he really has never gotten over it. It looks like he tried for about the last two decades, but in the end he didn't.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    A sizeable chunk, something like 30 minutes or more, of the second set of that show was his solo material, including, I think, 20 minutes from Amused To Death, which I think was a mistake. You could feel the energy in the room shift from when he was doing Pink Floyd songs, to the solo material, which most of the audience obviously didn't know. During Perfect Sense, Roger's walking around the stage looking like he's leading an audience participation segment or something, but the audience clearly "didn't know the words" (or even the melody, for that matter). He should have interspersed the solo material throughout both sets, doing one song at a time, before going bak to the Floyd music.
    I saw that tour and enjoyed most the Water's solo stuff So I am very happy he did so much of it.
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  4. #104
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halmyre View Post
    I think Roger's griping started around that time - complaining about giving Nick Mason the writing credit for 'Speak To Me' for example.
    First time I hear of this and it would be unjust, since Mason was the sound effects in the band. Maybe not songwriting per se, but his work should've gained him automatically a writing credit somewhere on all the albums that he's worked on - including the Gilmour's Floyd albums.

    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Guitarplyrjvb View Post
    For a rabid socialist, Roger Waters seems awfully preoccupied by credits, property rights and his personal business interests.
    He's a human rights activist. I don't know of any indication that he's proclaimed himself to be a Socialist.
    Well, the son of a communist will make an odd captalist, but that doesn't mean he's going to let vultures pick on his dining plate

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    It went further than that. I remember in one of the Pink Floyd books I read that Roger was touring Radio KAOS while Floyd were rehearsing for the A Momentary Lapse Of Reason tour. Whichever city it was that Floyd were rehearsing in, at some point, Roger played a show there. Now, according to the Nicholas Schaffner book, Roger had his own security team patrolling the venue, because he didn't want anyone from the Floyd camp at the gig. Scott Page snuck through because "Nobody knew what Pink Floyd's new sax player looked like". Scott said that he thought it was a great show, great band, but when they did the old songs "It didn't sound like Pink Floyd, it sounded like a funk band".

    Roger, meanwhile griped to Rolling Stone 87 (perhaps legitimately) about how "that's my crashing plane, my pig, my songs...it's their dry ice, though". Then I remember him doing an interview around the time of Amused To Death where he again felt compelled to take swipes at them. Then there was something around the time Pulse came out, where he said something to the effect that "they have no clue how to play my songs" or something like that.
    Floyd was reahearsing on Toronto's Malton (now Pearson) Airport plane shed. I had a buddy working there, and we tried to spy around it, but never got anywhere... I quickly dropped any idea of making a living in industrial spying.

    Roger's remarks must've got to them at some point, because the red V-2 like airplane that crashed was soon replaced by a loony AMLOR bunk crashing (as shown on the VHS/DVD). When the DVD got re-issued, it's clearly a bed (and most remember of the crowds to that way as well), but I distinctly remember twice a red plane (it flew by a few meters away from the nosebleeds seats - where I was for that show - and saw from very close).
    If I had really good tickets for the first show (the third one to go on sale, since the other two were nearly sold-out), I was on holidays when the first two shows went on sale and was left with rafters seat (hence my presence). But luckily, the "third but first show" when on sales a couple of weeks later, and I had prime tickets for that one.


    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Well, I think Mick mostly played rhythm guitar anyway, so it wasn't like he had to replicate any of Dave's solos (for what it's worth, if you listen to the live versions of Learning To Fly, you'll note that Tim Renwick plays the solos, and you can hear how different his playing is from Dave's also).

    But that was a really solid band Dave had in 84: Mick Ralphs, Chris Slade (formerly of Uriah Heep and Manfred Mann's Earth Band) on drums, session bassist Mickey Feat on bass, former Uriah Heep keyboardist Gregg Dechert, Raphael "Baker Street" Ravenscroft on sax and synth, and Jodi Lindscott on percussion. That Live At The Hammersmith Odeon video from that tour is really cooking.
    Yeah, it was a solid band, but TBH, Ralphs didn't shine. You could see he was craving for recognition, but the Massey Hall show I saw wasn't firing on all cylinder - though I had the surprise to see Ravenscroft pop up a couple of meters away from me on the first balcony (my tickets were first row first balcony dead centre) to belt out a mean solo. It would've helped if there were a few more Floyd tracks in there and something from his first solo album. Slade was good, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tangram View Post
    I guess to sum up, Roger thought he was the smartest guy in the room by believing if he left PF, the band would fold. When that didn't happen and the courts backed the Gilmour and Mason up, well he really has never gotten over it. It looks like he tried for about the last two decades, but in the end he didn't.
    Yup, I remember Dave telling the world that Roger defyingly told him that "he wouldn't dare to keep the boat going" (thinking Dave wouldn't have the means or ambition)... I guess Dave did dare... and succeeded.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Decades later, there was a thing about Pink Floyd on VH-1, I guess it was the big documentary that was made after the Live 8 deal, and Roger admits that part of his gripe was that "Pink Floyd" could fill a 70,000 seat football stadium three nights in a row. On the other hand, "Roger Waters" was struggling to fill venues a 10th of that size for just one night in the same city.

    Actually, truth is, ti's like that with most bands. Most people couldn't tell you who was in Lynyrd Skynyrd, Asia, or any number of other bands. Other than The Beatles The Rolling Stones, and Led Zeppelin, most bands, the individual band members (other than perhaps the lead singer and maybe the lead guitarist, e.g. Aerosmith or Van Halen) or just as unknown to people as...well you or me. That's why Gary Rossington can carry on touring with a Lynyrd Skynyrd where he's the only guy who was in the plane crash still in the band, or there could be two Asia's on the road at one point, because most people don't know who was in the band and could care less that they're effectively watching a tribute band.
    One can say the same for Genesis and Steve Hackett. If Steve plays a complete Genesis album, he doesn't attract the same crowd Geneses attracts.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Kcrimso View Post
    I saw that tour and enjoyed most the Water's solo stuff So I am very happy he did so much of it.
    I guess if you were familiar with Amused To Death, it was alright, but I think he made a mistake by playing so much of it back to back like he did. I think most of the audience were like, "When's he going to play some more Floyd?".

    Roger's remarks must've got to them at some point, because the red V-2 like airplane that crashed was soon replaced by a loony AMLOR bunk crashing (as shown on the VHS/DVD). When the DVD got re-issued, it's clearly a bed (and most remember of the crowds to that way as well), but I distinctly remember twice a red plane (it flew by a few meters away from the nosebleeds seats - where I was for that show - and saw from very close).
    Not so much "remarks" as "copyright claim". I also recall that the original pig design was androgynous. So to get around Roger's copyright, Gilmour and company had male genitalia to the pig, and included a "Pig concept by Roger Waters" credit in the closing credits of Delicate Sound Of Thunder (which, Nicholas Schaeffner notes, came came at a point in the video by which time most fans had long since hit rewind).
    Yeah, it was a solid band, but TBH, Ralphs didn't shine. You could see he was craving for recognition, but the Massey Hall show I saw wasn't firing on all cylinder - though I had the surprise to see Ravenscroft pop up a couple of meters away from me on the first balcony (my tickets were first row first balcony dead centre) to belt out a mean solo. It would've helped if there were a few more Floyd tracks in there and something from his first solo album. Slade was good, though.
    He didn't do anything from David Gilmour at the Massey Hall show? I thought I had seen setlists that listed several of the songs from that album. I know on the Beyond The Floyd documentary, he's shown playing Mihalis during a soundcheck, and on the Hammersmith Odeon video they do There's No Way Out Of Here.
    One can say the same for Genesis and Steve Hackett. If Steve plays a complete Genesis album, he doesn't attract the same crowd Geneses attracts.
    Well, the thing wiht Hackett and Genesis is more complicated, because he basically left the band before they massive rise to worldwide fame. If it was Phil Collins playing Abacab or Invisible Touch, it would be huge, but "Steve Hackett plays Selling England By The Pound" isn't gonna generate the same level of public interest.

  7. #107
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    Was there any of those Gilmour shows with Mick Ralphs that got recorded?
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  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Splicer View Post
    Quote from the piece attributed to Gilmour:
    The wording is important here. Not once does Gilmour say that he did anything - there's a lot of "you'd" and "we'd" never "I". It's a pretty lawyerly way for Gilmour to seem like he's taking credit but have plausible deniability that he did anything of the kind.
    Or, conversely, he's acknowledging that it was a collective effort. That's how I look at it.

    As for the bitterness between Gilmour and Waters? It's gone on way too long for them to patch it up, I think. They'd need a mediator to try and work them through their stuff, and I just don't think either of them has any interest. And why would they? Waters struggled for commercial acceptance in his early post-Floyd days, but has certainly done well over the last quarter century. Gilmour, of course, has had no problems remaining successful.

    Personally, as I get older, I think it's a good thing to realise we're not getting any younger, and in cases where I've had falling outs with a coup,e of people, in recent years I've reached out as I just think life's too short, you know? And the good news is, while we're not close the way we once were, we are back to being friends, and that's all I was looking for. So I think it would be great for them to patch up their differences, but not everyone sees the value, so sadly it is what it is....

    Meanwhile, I'm looking forward to finally having Animals in high res (since I don't do surround). I dunno if I'll read Waters' book though, as I suspect, based on everything I've seen with him, that it'll be very one-sided and, frankly, bitter and nasty. Not to mention he clearly believes that he was the sole driving force behind Floyd, and that just ain't true. Sure, he came up with some great concepts, but were it not cor the collaborative efforts of Waters, Gilmour, Wright and Mason, they'd have not amounted to what they did.
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  9. #109
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Decades later, there was a thing about Pink Floyd on VH-1, I guess it was the big documentary that was made after the Live 8 deal, and Roger admits that part of his gripe was that "Pink Floyd" could fill a 70,000 seat football stadium three nights in a row. On the other hand, "Roger Waters" was struggling to fill venues a 10th of that size for just one night in the same city.
    Maybe he should have thought of that before leaving the band.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerjo View Post
    Was there any of those Gilmour shows with Mick Ralphs that got recorded?

  11. #111
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    ^^^^

    Yeakh, that pretty close to my memories of the Massey Hall show (there must've been more tracks not filmed, though)... and viewing it doesn't do much to embellish tose memories.


    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    He didn't do anything from David Gilmour at the Massey Hall show? I thought I had seen setlists that listed several of the songs from that album. I know on the Beyond The Floyd documentary, he's shown playing Mihalis during a soundcheck, and on the Hammersmith Odeon video they do There's No Way Out Of Here.
    It's pretty far away nowadays, but I definitely remember being disappointed once out of the building , about not doing much (anything?) else than No Way Out. I mean, I was hoping for wilder stuff like Mihalis or Raise My Rent.
    Also, him doing only two Wall tracks (they were his compositions, though) and being the only Floyd things he did helped tpo my general disappointment...

    ... Contrasting heavily with the ecstatic state I was outside & after the Waters (with Clapton) show... I was less impressed upon the second Clatpton-less show a few months later, but the surprise was gone.

    Albeit, Gilmour had more balls to go out solo and rely fairly little on Floyd stuff, whereas I believe most people were inside Waters' shows to witness Clapton replacing Gilmour in the second set than for his first solo album set.

    Quote Originally Posted by jkelman View Post
    As for the bitterness between Gilmour and Waters? It's gone on way too long for them to patch it up, I think. They'd need a mediator to try and work them through their stuff, and I just don't think either of them has any interest. And why would they? Waters struggled for commercial acceptance in his early post-Floyd days, but has certainly done well over the last quarter century. Gilmour, of course, has had no problems remaining successful.
    TBH, I tend to think Waters would love to make peace once and for all, but falling onto Gilmour's unwillingness to open up for more than a polite but shallow overture, Roger loses his cool fairly quickly.... which of course brings much waters (pun intended) to feed Dave's mill.

    I've had a couple fallouts with old mates in both ways. The one that makes the first step in gluing back the "Broken China" pieces is in a position of weakness, despite of who was (W)right (another intended double pun) in the original feud. Generally this "gesture" entitles/enpowers the "askee" over the "asker", and often drives the former to act as an arsehole with unreasonable demands (unwillingness to make up easily and make the other crawl a bit more). In this Floyd case, I believe Gilmour relishes his position and laughs (below the cape) at Waters' multiple/repeated demands, but deep down he knows it won't work out.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  12. #112
    I've had a couple fallouts with old mates in both ways. The one that makes the first step in gluing back the "Broken China" pieces is in a position of weakness, despite of who was (W)right (another intended double pun) in the original feud. Generally this "gesture" entitles/enpowers the "askee" over the "asker", and often drives the former to act as an arsehole with unreasonable demands
    Agree. I had a fallout with an old friend I was pals with all throughout our 20's. He was a total narcist control freak who was never at fault, and I had enough of it when I started dating my future wife. In our last conversation, when I basically told him I'm done, his replay was, "Well, I would still like to hear from you once in a while and know how you're doing. But I can't call you, you have to call me, you understand?" It's been 30 years and I still haven't called him.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    I guess if you were familiar with Amused To Death, it was alright, but I think he made a mistake by playing so much of it back to back like he did. I think most of the audience were like, "When's he going to play some more Floyd?".
    I went to the SoCal Radio KAOS show, which was around the same time Floyd toured the area. Anyways, the rivalry was very tangible. The prevailing sentiment I picked up from people going to the show was "Roger was the backbone of the band, and only true Floyd fans prefer him these days to Gilmour's Floyd." At the time I'd only heard what local radio had played from Radio KAOS (one song, maybe?) and Hitchhiker's Guide (one or two songs, as I recall). Other than that I was looking forward to seeing what Waters came had to present in terms of new material. I mean, if all of these people thought this way surely I was going to be pleased.

    Unfortunately I couldn't hum a melody from a single one of his solo songs played at that show. I remember Jim Ladd sitting in a chair wearing aviator sunglasses, and Roger watching a TV at some point. I guess I appreciated the theatricality of it all, but musically... not so much.
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  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulrus View Post

    Unfortunately I couldn't hum a melody from a single one of his solo songs played at that show. I remember Jim Ladd sitting in a chair wearing aviator sunglasses, and Roger watching a TV at some point. I guess I appreciated the theatricality of it all, but musically... not so much.
    Most of the music I love I can't hum. So what?
    "A waste of talent and electricity." John Peel on ELP

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kcrimso View Post
    Most of the music I love I can't hum. So what?
    Sure, but one of the hallmarks of Pink Floyd's best music was its accessibility, even when it was being psych or proggy. But YMMV.
    I'm holding out for the Wilson-mixed 5.1 super-duper walletbuster special anniversary extra adjectives edition.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulrus View Post

    Unfortunately I couldn't hum a melody from a single one of his solo songs played at that show. I remember Jim Ladd sitting in a chair wearing aviator sunglasses, and Roger watching a TV at some point. I guess I appreciated the theatricality of it all, but musically... not so much.
    That's because most of them don't have melodies. I'm not a huge fan of Roger's solo records, but even the songs I've heard repeatedly, I can't tell you "how they go". I've said many times, it's as if Roger gets so wrapped up in making The Big Statement, he forgets to write some melodies to go along with all the ranting.

    I totally feel like the tunefulness of Pink Floyd came from the other band members, Syd in the early days, obviously, and subsequently, David and Rick. Sure, ROger's the one sitting around thinking, "Let's do an album about all the things that drive us crazy" or "Let's do a homage to Syd", but I think Dave and Rick contributed a hell of a lot, even if it's not acknowledged in the bylines. It was Dave who came up with "Syd's Theme", the four note guitar lick that recurs in Shine On You Crazy Diamond, and it was Rick who wrote most of Us And Them and Great Gig In The Sky (and yes, I know Claire Torrey eventually took them to court over the latter, that's why I said "most"). I also suspect most of the instrumental bits on the records weren't dictated by Roger to either of them.

    Also, on The Wall, I've heard that a lot of the arrangements and whatnot were heavily embellished by Bob Ezrin. Ezrin said Roger told him, "Write what you like, but don't expect any credits". In the Nicholas Schaeffner book, it's mentioned that Is There Anybody Out There was basically written by Ezrin, and I wouldn't be surprised to find out that he had more than a little to do with something like Nobody Home.

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  18. #118
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulrus View Post
    Unfortunately I couldn't hum a melody from a single one of his solo songs played at that show. I remember Jim Ladd sitting in a chair wearing aviator sunglasses, and Roger watching a TV at some point. I guess I appreciated the theatricality of it all, but musically... not so much.
    I played it again a while back and sadly, Radio KAOS really isn't terribly good. Beyond 'The Tide Is Turning' and 'Radio Waves', it's as light on tunes as you say.

    Sonically, it's a real time capsule of the 80s- twittering keyboards and programmed drums all over the place. You can either stomach that sound or not, and I can't.

  20. #120
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    I can see it's time again to post...

    Subject: Roger Waters’ Diary

    Monday
    Got up, had a bath. Thought that the water looked a dark color – then realized I still had my aviator sunglasses on. Listened to the radio and felt a bit alienated. Wrote another concept album on video recorders as I realized I’d already done TV and radio. Had lunch and the postman turned up. A letter from mum reminding me that it’s Uncle Bob’s birthday next week. The power she still wields… will I never be free??? Beat my fists against the wall in anger and frustration for about 20 minutes. Decided to have a cup of tea. Milk had gone off. I detect the hand of David Gilmour in this.
    This dates back to the late 80s. I'll post the rest if anyone's interested. Be warned, though: it's long.
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  21. #121
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    ^^^^

    you read this to A Day In The Life and it fits quite well.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  22. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    I played it again a while back and sadly, Radio KAOS really isn't terribly good. Beyond 'The Tide Is Turning' and 'Radio Waves', it's as light on tunes as you say.

    Sonically, it's a real time capsule of the 80s- twittering keyboards and programmed drums all over the place. You can either stomach that sound or not, and I can't.
    Radio KAOS is listed another album listed in The 100 Worst Rock & Roll Records Of All Time. The authors note that if you a record you buy begins, not with music or spoken word, but rather a sound effect, you should take right back to the record store, and demand a refund on the grounds the item is defective. "You wouldn't be completely lying". It's been a long time since I heard Radio KAOS, I borrowed it from the library ages ago, and my assessment more or less matches yours, i.e. The Tide Is Turning and Radio Waves are pretty happening, and everything else isn't.

    I also remember someone making an interesting point about KAOS: OK, so Billy launches a mock nuclear attack, which no one realizes is just pretend or whatever, and when everyone realizes it wasn't real, everyone comes to their senses and world peace is achieved (side note: I remember James Guthrie, I believe it was, who was Floyd's studio engineer in the late 70's, who subsequently defected to Roger's camp, saying that he kept trying to get Roger to do something with a "happy ending...for once, I got my way"...oh, so this lame ending is your fault?!).

    Right, so I read where someone pointed out that beause of the way early warning systems work "the other side" wouldn't know that what they were seeing was "just a simulation", and therefore would retaliate with a very real counter-attack, i.e. if this actually happened in real life (and yeah, I know, we're talking WarGames dren, stuff that could never actually happen), Billy would have basically caused Armageddon, i.e. no happy ending.

  23. #123
    ^
    Well, the end of the human race already happens twice on a Roger Waters album (at the end of The Final Cut and Amused To Death), so without this happy ending it could have been a trilogy, but how many ends of the world can there be in someone's discography ?
    Last edited by Interstellar; 06-09-2021 at 02:18 AM.

  24. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    I played it again a while back and sadly, Radio KAOS really isn't terribly good. Beyond 'The Tide Is Turning' and 'Radio Waves', it's as light on tunes as you say.

    Sonically, it's a real time capsule of the 80s- twittering keyboards and programmed drums all over the place. You can either stomach that sound or not, and I can't.
    Best songs from KAOS are the ones that aren't on it- Going to live in L.A. and Get Back to Radio

  25. #125
    Anyone seen a release or pre-order date?

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