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Thread: Featured album: NUCLEUS - We'll Talk About It Later

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    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Featured album: NUCLEUS - We'll Talk About It Later

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    NUCLEUS - We'll Talk About It Later

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    Tracks Listing:
    1. Song For The Bearded Lady (7:25)
    2. Sun Child (5:19)
    3. Lullaby For A Lonely Child (4:21)
    4. We'll Talk About It Later (6:19)
    5. Oasis (9:49)
    6. Ballad of Joe Pimp (3:48)
    7. Easter 1916 (8:47)


    Line-up:
    - Ian Carr / trumpet, flugelhorn
    - Brian Smith / tenor & soprano saxes, flute
    - Karl Jenkins / piano, Hohner Electra piano, oboe, baritone sax
    - Chris Spedding / guitars, bouzouki, vocals (6)
    - Jeff Clyne / acoustic & electric bass
    - John Marshall / drums, percussion


    Here is what Youirs Truly had to say about it in ProgArchives some 15 years ago.
    The apex of British jazz-rock fusion so hot, that your speakers will simply melt and your brains will have fried much before that. Un-mistakably the best album of Nucleus but also in the top 5 of all fusion albums including Miles, Mahavishnu etc.... If Elastic Rock (their debut) had given the tone both musically but pictorially also with the incredible Roger Dean cut-out cover of magma/lava about to burst out in the open, it is clear that this album betters it by not one notch but three.

    "We'll talk about it later" is somehow not the best title for this album as this is a definitive statement if fusion. The sleeve artwork is again a Roger Dean gatefold cut-out work but not as impressive as the debut but the centre photos is about the Irish uprising in 1916, a recurrent theme in early Nucleus albums (four tracks over the first three albums). The power exudes from every one of these tracks and Bearded Lady , Sun Child , Oasis are incredibly hardcore but nowhere is this so evident than on the title track. In this track , Karl Jenkins saturates his organ to a level that even Banton, Lord, Emerson, Ratledge, Sinclair could not even imagine possible, but Chris Spedding comes in (like he does on the whole album ) with a brilliant guitar, subdued, awesomely restrained, powerful, fearful. In a word: Flabbergastingly breathless performance. The horn players can simply only sublimely accompany the Jenkins-Spedding duo , with John Marshall providing dantesque drumming, Clyne - although trying to add something simply gets drowned out in such a mass of molten and fused lava flowing from your speakers directly into your brains: orgasmic , orgiastic , stupendous!!!!!!!!!!

    Side 2 is rather a different as it contains three tracks but Ballad Of Joe Pimp , while revisiting the title track is clearly under its own life with Carr and Smith blowing their horns as if their lives depended on it and the records closes on a Nucleus rarity: A sung track. Easter 1916 is the third time in two albums they revisit the Irish upheaval of the times and that will eventually lead to the Irish independence (well partially anyways as Ulster is still not freed). The lyrics are astounding somehow halfway sung halfway declaimed (almost as if to be disclaimed).

    Very poignant end to a superb record, one of my top 5 of all time! Breathlessly beautiful and astoundingly flabbergasting ................words fail me...........Goose bumps and spine chills guaranteed. A must!!! No life can be complete before you heard this at ear-splitting level.




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    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

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    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Not my personal favorite of the first wave of jazz/rock explorers on either side of the Atlantic, but it is still a really good debut with some fantastic ideas and playing.
    Steve F.

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    Member Munster's Avatar
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    A great album, with Jenkins and Marshal warming up for a switch to Soft Machine. I first heard this on the Torrid Zone boxset of Ian Carr's Vertigo recordings between 1970 and 1975, and what struck me listening to the albums in the boxset is just what a good saxophonist Brian Smith was. His CV suggests he was pretty busy around this time, but then slipped under the radar (in 1982 he returned to New Zealand). It is also strange seeing Chris Spedding pop up on jazz/fusion albums of this period; I know him for his rock guitar work, his Top 20 hit Motor Bikin', and then his rockabilly period. But, aside from his Nucleus work on this album and the earlier Elastic Rock, he worked initially with Bob Downes and put out his own jazz-flavoured album Songs Without Words.
    'There are no certain answers and no time to understand / The goal's a changing paradise, a moment out of date'

  4. #4
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    Not my personal favorite of the first wave of jazz/rock explorers on either side of the Atlantic, but it is still a really good sophomore with some fantastic ideas and playing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Munster View Post
    A great album, with Jenkins and Marshal warming up for a switch to Soft Machine. I first heard this on the Torrid Zone boxset of Ian Carr's Vertigo recordings between 1970 and 1975, and what struck me listening to the albums in the boxset is just what a good saxophonist Brian Smith was. His CV suggests he was pretty busy around this time, but then slipped under the radar (in 1982 he returned to New Zealand). It is also strange seeing Chris Spedding pop up on jazz/fusion albums of this period; I know him for his rock guitar work, his Top 20 hit Motor Bikin', and then his rockabilly period. But, aside from his Nucleus work on this album and the earlier Elastic Rock, he worked initially with Bob Downes and put out his own jazz-flavoured album Songs Without Words.
    Spedding really turned his back against the jazz-rock scene, but he was part of the Battered Ornaments and playing with Graham Collier (nothing recorded I think) and Jack Bruce before and while in Nucleus.

    This drastic change of direction was quite quick, to the point that he stopped the release of what should've been his first (stunning and very much in line with Nucleus) solo album, called Songs Without Words (only officially released in Japan).



    this one is awesomely stunning:





    I guess he reached that far (killing your own album, disowning it and call his early career crap ), cos he had chosen to make better money and go for rock music.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

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    The riff of '...Bearded Lady' was returned to by Soft Machine (with Jenkins and Marshall) within the 'Hazard Profile' suite.

    I played these first two not so long ago. Although this one is definitely a rockier album, I find Elastic Rock to be a more even, consistent album overall. I don't really like the vocal number '...Joe Pimp' on here.

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    Member StarThrower's Avatar
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    I like the first half dozen Nucleus albums. And the British Tour double CD. Also love that Chris Spedding record.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    This drastic change of direction was quite quick, to the point that he stopped the release of what should've been his first (stunning and very much in line with Nucleus) solo album, called Songs Without Words (only officially released in Japan).



    this one is awesomely stunning:
    Quote Originally Posted by StarThrower View Post
    Also love that Chris Spedding record.
    Spedding has had a rethink about this release. He has remastered it and it is now fairly widely available via the Hux label. However, about seven minutes have been excised. Station Song has been cut back to 11 minutes (from the 14 minutes in the YouTube clip supplied by Trane) and The Forest of Fables has also had a trim. Why? Who knows, but presumably what was cut out was what caused offence in the first place. There is this review on All About Jazz: https://www.allaboutjazz.com/songs-w...php?width=1024
    'There are no certain answers and no time to understand / The goal's a changing paradise, a moment out of date'

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    Casanova TCC's Avatar
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    Good call Trane ... as usual!
    Love it!
    Pura Vida!.

    There are two kinds of music. Good music, and the other kind. ∞
    Duke Ellington.

  9. #9
    Member Munster's Avatar
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    The influence of Miles Davis ('In A Silent Way', 'Bitches Brew' and 'Jack Johnson') can be heard scattered all around this album and its predecessor, 'Electric Rock'. Ian Carr wrote a highly respected book about Davis, but it sounds like everyone playing on these two British albums had a healthy regard for the American jazz scene and at various points referenced individual styles: John Marshall and Tony Williams, Chris Spedding and John McLaughlin and Jeff Clyne-Michael Henderson (although both 'We'll Talk About It Later' and 'Jack Johnson' came out in 1971). Jenkins clearly respected some of Davis's compositions. By the third Nucleus album, 'Solar Plexus', there were far fewer references (IMO).
    'There are no certain answers and no time to understand / The goal's a changing paradise, a moment out of date'

  10. #10
    I'm a fan.

    This was the first Nucleus I heard, back when I was 18. I'd already recently warmed up to the "immense difficulties" of Soft Machine 4, and thought it strange how something as immediately appealing as Nucleus were seemingly constantly compared. Two very different endeavours, as I heard them.

    I was always more of a Softs man, but those first five Nucleus records still have a lot going for them.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

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    Member Paulrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Munster View Post
    There is this review on All About Jazz: https://www.allaboutjazz.com/songs-w...php?width=1024
    The review mentions that Spedding was known for his Telecaster playing. I'm curious if he was an influence on Steve Howe during this period.
    I'm holding out for the Wilson-mixed 5.1 super-duper walletbuster special anniversary extra adjectives edition.

  12. #12
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    The jazz-rock genre is like a jungle that breeds a lot of monsters and Nucleus is definitely one of those. If "Elastic Rock" was rather smooth, Nucleus brought an explosive jazz-rock on this album. Indeed, "We'll Talk About It Later" is a self-assured masterpiece that consists of flashy tracks played by these virtuosos. "The Song for Bearded Ladies" is a Zappa-like epic, "Ballad of Joe Pimp" is quite a psychedelic track. ''Oasis'' has an outstanding interplay between the instruments over a rough guitar riff. The tremendous title track is a lengthened bluesy jam that introduces Spedding's guitar into more experimental spaces. "Sun Child" which features awesome cosmic wah-wahs, and "Lullaby for a Lonely Child" with its orchestral nuances, both conjure up other worlds. Those whimsical horns are just beautiful on "Easter 1916". Great record.

  13. #13
    Great album, I should really get around to getting that Torrid Zone boxed set. I've warmed to later-career Soft Machine recently, since I stopped wanting them to be like the old Soft Machine and decided to treat them as, in essence, a version of Nucleus without Ian Carr, and listening to the two bands' development side-by-side might be really interesting to track the cross-fertilisation of ideas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Warthur View Post
    I've warmed to later-career Soft Machine recently, since I stopped wanting them to be like the old Soft Machine
    Me too. The box set is good in that you get nine fine Nucleus albums. The downside, for me, is that there are six CDs in the boxset, so some albums start on one CD and run over into the next. In the early albums this is not so much of a problem as the personnel is roughly the same and the music they play is broadly similar, but in later albums this becomes more problematic. A minor gripe, though. The boxset is well worth owning.
    'There are no certain answers and no time to understand / The goal's a changing paradise, a moment out of date'

  15. #15
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    I'm still waiting for Repertoire to release this album in a mini-Lp CD version as they'd done for Elastik Rock.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    I was always more of a Softs man, but those first five Nucleus records still have a lot going for them.
    I suppose you mean everything up to (and including) Roots, but excluding the Belladona album.

    I actuallu like the Mk2 line-up (Sellers/Sutton/Castl & Co) discography (Under The Sun, Snakehips and Alleycars), though it's definitely not as challenging as what came before. Even Flagrante Delicto is relatively good.

    I'm much less a fan of the Long Dark 80's stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Warthur View Post
    Great album, I should really get around to getting that Torrid Zone boxed set. I've warmed to later-career Soft Machine recently, since I stopped wanting them to be like the old Soft Machine and decided to treat them as, in essence, a version of Nucleus without Ian Carr, and listening to the two bands' development side-by-side might be really interesting to track the cross-fertilisation of ideas.
    Be careful with the later (post 74) Nucleus albums, as they are more in a jazz-funk direction.
    If memory serves the boxset includes Belladona and not IFD, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Munster View Post
    Me too. The box set is good in that you get nine fine Nucleus albums. The downside, for me, is that there are six CDs in the boxset, so some albums start on one CD and run over into the next. In the early albums this is not so much of a problem as the personnel is roughly the same and the music they play is broadly similar, but in later albums this becomes more problematic. A minor gripe, though. The boxset is well worth owning.
    This is really unforgiveable, really.

    talk about respecting the oeuvre


    The boxset would also miss the Bremen 71 and the Hemispheres (71) recordings as well.
    The former having ussel on guitar while the latter has Spedding torturing the strings.
    Last edited by Trane; 2 Weeks Ago at 10:37 AM.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

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    Parrots ripped my flesh Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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    Carr's "Old Heartland" is well worth seeking out, IMO. Not much like Nucleus, but a really enjoyable Third Stream effort.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Munster View Post
    Me too. The box set is good in that you get nine fine Nucleus albums. The downside, for me, is that there are six CDs in the boxset, so some albums start on one CD and run over into the next. In the early albums this is not so much of a problem as the personnel is roughly the same and the music they play is broadly similar, but in later albums this becomes more problematic. A minor gripe, though. The boxset is well worth owning.
    I guess they are assuming that most people these days are ripping their CDs to digital and only rarely playing the originals. Then again I have an old 2CD compilations from the mid-1990s for other groups which commit similar sins.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    Be careful with the later (post 74) Nucleus albums, as they are more in a jazz-funk direction.
    Sounds interesting, I don't mind a bit of jazz-funk and I'll keep it in mind that there's a style shift.

    EDIT: Oh, and to answer the question: yeah, Torrid Zone has Belladonna and not IFD, presumably because it's specifically a Vertigo-era compilation, Belladonna was on Vertigo and IFD wasn't.

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    Member Munster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    If memory serves the boxset includes Belladona and not IFD, right?
    You are correct. But the boxset is more fully titled "Torrid Zone: The Vertigo Recordings 1970 - 1975" and In Flagranti Delicto was recorded on Contemp Records in 1977, so missed the cut.

    EDIT: Warthur beat me to it
    'There are no certain answers and no time to understand / The goal's a changing paradise, a moment out of date'

  20. #20
    For any interested, a piece I wrote back in 2004 about Ian Carr & Nucleus, reviewing then-recent BGO reissues plus some live albums (including Cuneiform's marvellous Live in Bremen, with the great Ray Russell waxing free in place of Spedding): Ian Carr And Nucleus: '70s British Jazz Rock Progenitors.

    BTW! Having spent the past year revising older articles for the King Crimson book, I realise how much I tended to long, info-dense but tangential and run-on sentences. So, while the content for the book is, in some cases, being significantly revised (still info-dense, but I hope - hope! - in a more easily digestible form), this article was not. So be kind, please. I have learned a load working on this book!
    John Kelman
    Senior Contributor, All About Jazz since 2004
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  21. #21
    Parrots ripped my flesh Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkelman View Post
    For any interested, a piece I wrote back in 2004 about Ian Carr & Nucleus, reviewing then-recent BGO reissues plus some live albums (including Cuneiform's marvellous Live in Bremen, with the great Ray Russell waxing free in place of Spedding): Ian Carr And Nucleus: '70s British Jazz Rock Progenitors.
    My first foray into the world of Nucleus was the Bremen release, and then the BGOs twofers, and I remember reading that article!

  22. #22
    Member Piskie's Avatar
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    A recent addition to my collection during my Canterburian foraging. Fine album!

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by jkelman View Post
    I realise how much I tended to long, info-dense but tangential and run-on sentences.
    I always put this down to your "Coltrane-playing-with-Miles'-Quintet-in-Europe-1960" stylistic phase, John

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Warthur View Post
    Great album, I should really get around to getting that Torrid Zone boxed set. I've warmed to later-career Soft Machine recently, since I stopped wanting them to be like the old Soft Machine and decided to treat them as, in essence, a version of Nucleus without Ian Carr, and listening to the two bands' development side-by-side might be really interesting to track the cross-fertilisation of ideas.
    That box-set is on my wishlist as well.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave (in MA) View Post
    My first foray into the world of Nucleus was the Bremen release, and then the BGOs twofers, and I remember reading that article!
    Thanks, Dave...always appreciated!
    John Kelman
    Senior Contributor, All About Jazz since 2004
    Freelance writer/photographer

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