Cycling 2013 (no Armstrong please)

[Progmatic]

as I said common practice

few pictures for illustration

cycling-contact-sport.jpg
spt_cycling030729.jpg

[Trane]

To me this was a fully intentional shoulder charge. You clearly see him turn his shoulder for impact. Tom Veelers did go a little bit to the right, but not much. Of course he was happy to black Cavendish a bit but thats all in the game. There was room enough to pass.

Cav put himself in the wrong position. Greipel and KIttel were starting their sprint on the left side of the road. Cav wanted to catch their wheel but couldn't; Veelers was in the way. So BAM!!..and Veelers was out of the way. It was an act of sheer fustration with which he could have caused serious injury to one of his colleagues.

Well the shoulder but was probably intentional, but defensive from what I saw yesterday... he did ok to defend his line... if he hadn't done that, he'd have found himself on the road instead of that Degencolb guy

====================

Well it's kind of over now (today) ...

thing is that Sky's overall team performance reminds everyone of Radioshack/ Discovery Channel/ US Postal....

Most likely these guys are not running on spring water alone...

[Trane]

Somebody sprayed Cav with urine during yesterday's time trial...
while I still think he wasn't wrong on that latest incident, this goes a long way to show how much of an arrogant prick he's been during the last 4 years... and the public is showing it to him (however tastelessly it is)

but he's got a good chance at winning today (a massive sprint is likely)

[Progmatic]

another dirty trick...see the block on Sagan

[Progmatic]

Here we go again http://sports.yahoo.com/news/froomes...9134--spt.html

The sad part is that it sounds all that familiar...accusation, responses....I think the sport will be doomed for some time...

What do you think ?

[Trane]

There is little doubt in my mind that team Sky's dominatuion (I'm going to ne nice and not say "squisshing") of all the stage races they entered in in the last two years (except for last year's Spanish Vuelta, where Contador attacked 24 times before finally winning over Froome) in more than suspect in my eyes...

Actually I can't believe after the Festina and Armstrong scandals) how a team still dares to sit all over a race the way they do... (I even suspect that they "ease up" on some stage, lose some ground and pretend to have an off)day as a make believe that they'd be clean)

Obviously, this team uses "technology" that's not yet available to others...

[NogbadTheBad]

Surely not, Froome & Wiggins are British (or compete under that flag of convenience), how could you accuse them of such a thing? Mind you isn't Sky owned by an Australian?

They are all suspect, every last one of them, at this stage the sports reputation occupies the same exalted ground as Body Building & Professional Wrestling.

[thedunno]

I do not think that SKy is really dominating the tour. Yesterday the team and Ritchie Porte in particular was strong, on other days they were nowhere to be seen. I think the only thing that gave some cyclists hope (that is, before yesterday) is that the Sky team showed weaknesses. On the stage to Lyon the team completely failed to protect to protect Froome. On the second stage in the pyrennees Froome was completely alone. There is really only 1 man that is dominating the tour.

It is only a question who becomes second. As a Dutch I hope for Mollema but i think it will be that colombian.

I dont buy the 'secret technology'. Froome is better then the rest at the moment. But so was Eddie Merckx in his time. Is he now also a suspect of using drugs that others didn't have at the time?
Even lance didn't use 'secret technology'. If he did the whole peleton were using the same 'secret technology'.

I think its very sad you cannot simply be very good without getting accused of using drugs.

[Trane]

The first stage in the Pyrénées was also all Sky... Yes, they were a little down on the second Pyrénées stage, but so was everybdy >> no-one attacked Froome that day, until it was all too late. And yes, they got caught offgard by the wind factor on that stage (the one before they got to Lyon), but they limited the damage (that Valverde's team couldn't)

by "technology", I meant substances, of course...
although, in terms or real technology, some teams are using special front platters nowadays >> a bit oval (instead of perfectly round), to optimize every single angle of the pedalling cycle ...

And indeed, Merckx most probably didn't run on clean water either... but back then it was mostly steroids and amphetamines, which were easily traceable... Don't forget that in the 60's guys like Simpson doped themselves with two shots of whisky before going up the hill.

[Trane]

Surely not, Froome & Wiggins are British (or compete under that flag of convenience), how could you accuse them of such a thing? Mind you isn't Sky owned by an Australian?

They are all suspect, every last one of them, at this stage the sports reputation occupies the same exalted ground as Body Building & Professional Wrestling.

The huge difference is that Cycling is a sport that really tries to tackle and curb the problem >> which is of course making big headlines, but obviously not the good way


Froome went up the mont Ventoux - which is also the Mont Chauve (Bald Mountain) of Moussorgski fame - quicker than Pantani and Armstrong did (they were two, with an immense rivalry)... And this was the longest stage of the tour...

[Duncan Glenday]

So the moment one athlete does well, he's automatically assumed to be a doper?

[NogbadTheBad]

Of course.

[Progmatic]

So the moment one athlete does well, he's automatically assumed to be a doper?

It's only natural...

...really, the guy who is 28 years old and he was till 2 years ago "a nobody", now he is unbeatable...so people have questions...

[Trane]

Originally Posted by Duncan Glenday
So the moment one athlete does well, he's automatically assumed to be a doper?

It's only natural...

...really, the guy who is 28 years old and he was till 2 years ago "a nobody", now he is unbeatable...so people have questions...

we can say the same of Wiggins, who was anything but a climber when riding for French teams (FDJ namely)... as soon as he got out, he became a climber in his newteam...

I'm not sure that it's "natural"... but in this day and age with the money involved, it's inevitable
Especially when there are followers in the trail (let's face it: the Jamaican athletics sprint school is highly suspect to my eyes as well)

[Duncan Glenday]

Last year, Froome's climbing ability basically won the Tour for Wiggins.

He came second in the Tour last year.

2012 - 3rd in the Time trial, Olympic Games, and 4th Vuelta a España

2011 - 2nd in the Vuelta a España

2010 - 3rd in the National Time Trial Championship



This ain't a flash in-the-pan.

[Trane]

Last year, Froome's climbing ability basically won the Tour for Wiggins.

He came second in the Tour last year.

2012 - 3rd in the Time trial, Olympic Games, and 4th Vuelta a España

2011 - 2nd in the Vuelta a España

2010 - 3rd in the National Time Trial Championship

This ain't a flash in-the-pan.

and before that??
I mean, the man is 28 now (if I read right)... talented riders are known/spotted in the late teens or early 20's....

[Duncan Glenday]

Before that he was living in Africa, where they don't have access to (a) the big races, and (b) the professional training techniques available in Europe / USA.

[Progmatic]

and before that??
I mean, the man is 28 now (if I read right)... talented riders are known/spotted in the late teens or early 20's....

That is what I was referring to...LA, though he was a cheater, he has long history of achievements prior his "success" in TdF, including junior cycling and other sports like swimming, he was known athlete...

This guy was nobody in 2010 and most of 2011 and then suddenly he had to be held back by Sky team in 2012 TdF so Wiggins can win ?!

[Trane]

Before that he was living in Africa, where they don't have access to (a) the big races, and (b) the professional training techniques available in Europe / USA.

I'm not too famuiliar with his family life (though yeah, he was born in Kenya, but went to jo'burg (Rep of South Africa) for a number of years... and they have excellent sport facilities there...

(BTW, I find Oscar Pistorius' performances suspect as well , but only because of illegal technology >> blades)

[thedunno]

Froome DOES use some special technology; he uses an oval shaped chainring.
http://cycletechreview.com/2012/news...our-de-france/

Theoretically this IS an advantage, because it shortens the time you can not put full force on your pedals. This is not a secret technology; it is around a few years and available to all. Most of the riders simply do not like it. Of course; if you are riding with a round chainring all your life this will feel very weird. Froome DID take the time and training hours to adjust to this new technology.

According to experts there hasn't been an official research on how much advantage this oval shaped chainring actually gives. They suspect that especially uphill the advantage might be substantial.

[Trane]

I think I mentioned that a few posts ago... but this isn't that new, and I suspect he's not the only one...

This said, the advantage can't be as evident as Greg LeMond's then-illegal tri-athlete handlebars in g-his TdF 89 win... he admitted that he gained up to 3 minutes in that tour's time trials of that year...
But I read somewhere that some experts think that he (GLM) was the last more or less clean tour winner (I'd tend to believe it), despite the illegal technology >> by next year the tri-athlete handlebars were made legal...

[Progmatic]

Froome DOES use some special technology; he uses an oval shaped chainring.
http://cycletechreview.com/2012/news...our-de-france/

Theoretically this IS an advantage, because it shortens the time you can not put full force on your pedals. This is not a secret technology; it is around a few years and available to all. Most of the riders simply do not like it. Of course; if you are riding with a round chainring all your life this will feel very weird. Froome DID take the time and training hours to adjust to this new technology.

According to experts there hasn't been an official research on how much advantage this oval shaped chainring actually gives. They suspect that especially uphill the advantage might be substantial.

my first reaction to it, as someone who studied tons of physics in his life, is that there is no advantage since the amount of work you have to generate does not change...(assuming other parameters of the bike stays the same)...what I do not know is whether there is some advantage to the way your body reacts to periodic variation of the applied force on pedals...with the cadence of 80 to 100 I would think there should be no difference but....

[Duncan Glenday]

...
went to jo'burg (Rep of South Africa) for a number of years... and they have excellent sport facilities there...
...

They don't.

They have some good training facilities, but not many.

Also, cyclists cannot train on the roads because (a) the road surfaces aren't very good, (a) there's a deep history of unlicensed motorists killing road riders, and (b) cyclists are often mugged and their bikes are stolen. Any South African road rider (Impey, Hunter, etc.) who wants to make it has to get out of that country and go to Europe or the USA - and only then will their careers take off.

The sad thing is - this was not always the case. It used to be possible to be a successful road rider in that country, and to train quite safely.

There are a FEW very high tech sports training facilities there, but they're only available to a very few elite athletes - usually runners, rather than cyclists.

BTW - Because of these problems with road riding in S.A., most of their cyclists have taken to the track and to mountain biking.

Froome DOES use some special technology; he uses an oval shaped chainring.
http://cycletechreview.com/2012/news...our-de-france/

Theoretically this IS an advantage, because it shortens the time you can not put full force on your pedals. This is not a secret technology; it is around a few years and available to all. Most of the riders simply do not like it. Of course; if you are riding with a round chainring all your life this will feel very weird. Froome DID take the time and training hours to adjust to this new technology.
...

True. Wiggins also used it - last year.

my first reaction to it, as someone who studied tons of physics in his life, is that there is no advantage since the amount of work you have to generate does not change...(assuming other parameters of the bike stays the same)...what I do not know is whether there is some advantage to the way your body reacts to periodic variation of the applied force on pedals...with the cadence of 80 to 100 I would think there should be no difference but....

It definitely is an advantage, because you're effectively changing the gearing based on which leg muscles are in use at each part of the revolution.

I.e. on the power stroke, your gearing is a bit longer. On the part of the revolution when you're using less powerful muscles (pushing forward at the top, pulling back at the bottom), the gearing is shorter. This allows you to maximize the effect of each part of the pedal stroke more effectively than people with standard gearing systems.

[Progmatic]

It definitely is an advantage, because you're effectively changing the gearing based on which leg muscles are in use at each part of the revolution.

I.e. on the power stroke, your gearing is a bit longer. On the part of the revolution when you're using less powerful muscles (pushing forward at the top, pulling back at the bottom), the gearing is shorter. This allows you to maximize the effect of each part of the pedal stroke more effectively than people with standard gearing systems.

OK I buy it, you basically distribute more evenly the work between the muscles otherwise you may overuse some of them...

[Trane]

Well, sadly, only the TdF still racks up much interest... I started this thread in early March.... and it ammassed 35 replies (50%) ... of which 75% were mine...

Ever since the first TdF stage with the bus incident, the thread has doubled its post count in 17 days...