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Thread: NFTs and Music

  1. #51
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by MudShark22 View Post
    Bidding over 11k
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    The piece called "Floating Islands" which was an edition of 1 went for $22,222!!! That is alot of money and I’m happy for the old guy but peanuts compared to some of the other NFT’s that have high profile sales.

    There are two other pieces, one called “Green Parrot island" was an edition of 777 and with each selling for $333. The entire edition was sold out really quickly and as I look at their marketplace page (the secondary market) many are already trying to be flipped and it’s trading at $450.

    The other one called “Inland Sea ll” has an edition of 9999 and it looks like 267 so far have been minted at a price of $999. Many of these are being sold on the secondary market too trading at $1,175.

    Good times

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    Michael
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  3. #53
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    Thought experiment if anyone wants to play with this-and I wouldn't blame you if you didn't because it hurts my head to think about it but...

    lets say NFT's explode on an exponential basis, and not just for art...for everything. What that can mean is you basically tokenize yourself and we then have a world of contractors who are independent of any corporation or government or central bank. For example, a factory worker in the US will be at parity with a factory worker in China. Cheap labor will not exist anymore, the playing field will be leveled. You are truly your own boss.

    So if that happens, what will the world look like? Will there be any entity in control? There will only be one currency and whatever that currency is, whether it's Bitcoin, Etherium or something else...all the worlds transactions will take place in that currency...what will the world look like?

    Have fun, and pass the tylenol

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    Michael
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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by neuroticdog View Post
    The piece called "Floating Islands" which was an edition of 1 went for $22,222!!! That is alot of money and I’m happy for the old guy but peanuts compared to some of the other NFT’s that have high profile sales.

    There are two other pieces, one called “Green Parrot island" was an edition of 777 and with each selling for $333. The entire edition was sold out really quickly and as I look at their marketplace page (the secondary market) many are already trying to be flipped and it’s trading at $450.

    The other one called “Inland Sea ll” has an edition of 9999 and it looks like 267 so far have been minted at a price of $999. Many of these are being sold on the secondary market too trading at $1,175.

    Good times

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    Michael
    Low #s appear at first glance to be priced higher...

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  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by neuroticdog View Post
    The piece called "Floating Islands" which was an edition of 1 went for $22,222!!! That is alot of money and I’m happy for the old guy but peanuts compared to some of the other NFT’s that have high profile sales.

    There are two other pieces, one called “Green Parrot island" was an edition of 777 and with each selling for $333. The entire edition was sold out really quickly and as I look at their marketplace page (the secondary market) many are already trying to be flipped and it’s trading at $450.

    The other one called “Inland Sea ll” has an edition of 9999 and it looks like 267 so far have been minted at a price of $999. Many of these are being sold on the secondary market too trading at $1,175.

    Good times

    best
    Michael
    If the editions didn’t fully sell out can’t new buyers get in for the original prices? Or is it a guaranteed one time drop?

  6. #56
    I hope there is some practical application for this sometime in the future, but for now this is all tulips - again.
    No matter what anyone says, you are the decider of how you will listen to music.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunlight Caller View Post
    If the editions didn’t fully sell out can’t new buyers get in for the original prices? Or is it a guaranteed one time drop?
    appears to be one time. So if edition is 999 amd only 299 get minted - and time expired - that's all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob Holm-Lupo View Post
    A buyer's ownership. Up until now it's been almost impossible to own digital files of for instance music. You can download an album on Spotify and think you have it, but later they might remove that album from their catalog, and you can no longer play it. Same even with iTunes. You change your computer, didn't back up your files, only to realize that albums you paid good money for no longer show up on iTunes. On Bandcamp artists may choose to delete songs and albums you have already paid for - bad luck if you didn't download it first. All this has been a bit of an elephant in the room with regards to customers paying for something they might not end up owning in the long run. NFTs appear to solve that issue. It'll be interesting to follow this and see how it develops.
    The More I look into these NFT's, unfortunately the less optimistic I'm becoming and the more I'm beginning to agree with the bubble aspect they are displaying right now.

    Here is an article suggesting possible collusion between Beeple and Metakoven. I know it's just reporting and opinionating and this author is obviously fighting to gain eyeballs by being provocative and controversial, but on the other hand it's something to ruminate on. This article also gives some clarity on how Metakoven is planning on monetizing his portfolio of NFT's by fractionalizing the portfolio, not the art, and selling tokens on it. I sure don't love the fact that Beeple has a business relationship with him though!!!

    Also, Twittersphere has been blowing up with accusations that some of the NFT provider sites (I don't know if Nifty Gateway is included) have been dealing in what's called Fragile NFT's. I think Jacob mentioned that NFT's "might" be the force that allows consumers to solve the digital ownership elephant in the room problem. Now people are saying that the only thing that is immutably stored on the blockchain is the transaction between seller and buyer, and not the file you are paying for itself.

    So, in effect, you are paying for a "receipt" of purchase and the file is linked to a hosting site elsewhere, NOT ON THE BLOCKCHAIN. So if that hosting site where to go bellyup...well, say goodbye to your digital file of that Roger Dean you just bought. I don't know enough about the technology surrounding this but I'm sure (well hopeful at least) that this situation is being worked on, and there might be a solution to it but...this is just another negative that the buyers of these things may not be realizing right now.

    best
    Michael
    Last edited by neuroticdog; 4 Weeks Ago at 11:34 AM.
    If it ain't acousmatique-It's crap

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by neuroticdog View Post
    This article also gives some clarity on how Metakoven is planning on monetizing his portfolio of NFT's by fractionalizing the portfolio, not the art, and selling tokens on it
    Essentially creating a NFT Derivative + no different than packaging mortgages and selling participations in the pool - major 2008 crisis underpinning repeating itself.


    Now derivatives as a concept are not inherently bad, its just how much confidence does one have in the underlying "asset".

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  10. #60
    I read this article earlier, it is a rather dispiriting view of this latest thing...

    https://fstoppers.com/opinion/nfts-a...g-money-554869

  11. #61
    Outraged bystander markwoll's Avatar
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    This whole thing reminds me of videos of a bottom feeding frenzy around a whale carcass.
    Not to say that the art or music is a rotting whale carcass, just the feeding frenzy part.
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
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  12. #62
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    If it ain't acousmatique-It's crap

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    My head hurts, from reading this thread. Up until today, I did not even know what 'fungible' meant, lol.

    neil
    Last edited by boilk; 3 Weeks Ago at 05:52 AM.

  14. #64
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    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
    -- Aristotle
    Nostalgia, you know, ain't what it used to be. Furthermore, they tells me, it never was.
    “A Man Who Does Not Read Has No Appreciable Advantage Over the Man Who Cannot Read” - Unknown

  15. #65
    This is an important step toward the holy fungible grail of PFTs - partially fungible tokens.

    "The PFT will allow mutex-able token sharing in a way that finally realizes the vision of the now otherwise abandoned token ring technology - which allowed sharing but only in a clockwise direction.

    By having fully-sharable partially fungible tokens we will at last be able to move from simple cloud computing to token-based computational semantics.

    And that will enable fungible paradigm shift of digital proportions."
    I'm not lazy. I just work so fast I'm always done.

  16. #66
    Outraged bystander markwoll's Avatar
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    And the music slows down
    CNN Investing - nft prices falling
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
    -- Aristotle
    Nostalgia, you know, ain't what it used to be. Furthermore, they tells me, it never was.
    “A Man Who Does Not Read Has No Appreciable Advantage Over the Man Who Cannot Read” - Unknown

  17. #67
    I just like music I can listen to when I want to listen to it. I don't need to sell it for thousands of dollars in two years. I just need to spend between $7-10 on it and listen to it on my computer or phone or whatever for as long as I like.
    No matter what anyone says, you are the decider of how you will listen to music.

  18. #68
    Man of repute progmatist's Avatar
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    A report on last night's Daily Show brought up another issue. If one pays tens of thousands of dollars for an NFT, and the server hosting the actual product crashes, one's left with an expensive whole lot of nothing. And since the whole point blockchaining is to prevent copying, there's no backup copy of the product anywhere.
    "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"--Dalai Lama

  19. #69
    Is the product held on a single server? I honestly do not know. Or is it accessible from any place since it is held in the cloud?
    I'm not lazy. I just work so fast I'm always done.

  20. #70
    Outraged bystander markwoll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dana5140 View Post
    Is the product held on a single server? I honestly do not know. Or is it accessible from any place since it is held in the cloud?
    The 'cloud' is just some one else's computer.
    There have been reports of the digital item becoming inaccessible. The blockchain points to the stored item and the 'owner' still has their token, but the item is no longer at the store location.
    peoples expensive nfts keep vanishing this is why
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
    -- Aristotle
    Nostalgia, you know, ain't what it used to be. Furthermore, they tells me, it never was.
    “A Man Who Does Not Read Has No Appreciable Advantage Over the Man Who Cannot Read” - Unknown

  21. #71
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    the more I read about them the more I'm convinced that NFTs are such a fantastically stupid idea. that said today's artists are put in such a bind thanks to evil corporations like Spotify that I don't blame them for at least trying it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAMOOL View Post
    the more I read about them the more I'm convinced that NFTs are such a fantastically stupid idea. that said today's artists are put in such a bind thanks to evil corporations like Spotify that I don't blame them for at least trying it.
    Why? (Legitimate question...always wanting to hear other people's thoughts and reasons and since it seems like you have, in no uncertain terms...taken a side, any interest in elaborating?)

    A report on last night's Daily Show brought up another issue. If one pays tens of thousands of dollars for an NFT, and the server hosting the actual product crashes, one's left with an expensive whole lot of nothing. And since the whole point blockchaining is to prevent copying, there's no backup copy of the product anywhere.
    I had that concern too, and mentioned it up thread somewhere...but it appears to be being dealt with:

    https://www.businessinsider.com/what...ut-down-2021-3

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    Michael
    If it ain't acousmatique-It's crap

  23. #73
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    elaborate on why I think it's dumb, or why I don't fault the artists for trying it?

    I think it's dumb because I think most crypto things are. Blockchain in particular seems like an elaborate solution in search of a problem and even though there is some brilliance in the algorithm it uses and indeed it could theoretically be useful in a trustless society (with about 7 billion less humans on it) there is no existing issue which could be solved by it. The fact that it wastes huge amounts of energy is not a flaw, it's by design. I'm kind of an environmentalist so naturally I'm gonna hate things like this.

    but as far as NFTs themselves go - maybe I'm getting out of touch as I approach middle age but I cannot fathom why anyone would want one, outside of speculation. as BTC goes up in price it's caused a ton of people to make bad investments thinking a rising tide floats all boats. which seems to be true ~right now~, but who knows how things will look in a couple years. the point is that the NFT itself is just a digital token, it does nothing and means nothing, and it often seems to just be a pointer to a URL which could be taken offline at any time. perhaps I'm missing something here but there's nothing preventing people making jpegs or MP3s of whatever expensive think you "bought" which is indistinguishable from the 'real' thing. I'm not sure what problem it solves. don't get me wrong, I'm sure a younger generation who is into this idea can't understand why I buy vinyl, which makes no rational sense either. but at least I have some degree of control over what happens with that.

    I don't fault artists for trying it because it's so hard to make money in this field, if indeed there is money to be had in this field it's hard for them to pass it up given how little they're getting paid by streaming services. That said, I cannot imagine this being around for long. But who knows!! I've been wrong before!!!
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  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAMOOL View Post
    I think it's dumb because I think most crypto things are. Blockchain in particular seems like an elaborate solution in search of a problem and even though there is some brilliance in the algorithm it uses and indeed it could theoretically be useful in a trustless society (with about 7 billion less humans on it) there is no existing issue which could be solved by it. The fact that it wastes huge amounts of energy is not a flaw, it's by design. I'm kind of an environmentalist so naturally I'm gonna hate things like this.
    Think of the way Bitcoin process transactions like a 1950s supercomputer and many newer blockchain technology companies that are working to get it to the PC stage and eventually the smartphone stage (in terms of efficiency). So while Bitcoin does use a disproportionate amount of energy, many more recent and future endeavors improve on that. And they are in competition for each other. Bitcoin developers and miners are working towards cleaner solutions for Bitcoin itself.

    So buying into the whole "risk to the planet" is a red herring imo considering the damage to the planet that the production of smartphones and personal computers (not to mention the financial industry) contributes daily/annually without the same level of criticism.

    In terms of what blockchain tech does or can do, here's a good starting point if you're interested.

    https://101blockchains.com/problems-blockchain-solve/
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    that's the problem, though - unless I'm misunderstanding something fundamental I don't think there is a way to make it more efficient. they've been working on that since 2015, back when there was this idea that Bitcoin could be used as a real world currency, until it wound up taking 15 minutes and using $40 worth of energy to confirm a single transaction. the inefficiency is baked into the data structure; afaik the only way to make it quicker is to just eliminate huge parts of the ledger. to me saying "it'll get better" is like saying "we're working on a more efficient way to do double wildcard searches" - it's the search itself that's inefficient, not the way you're executing it. that said I'm not exactly an expert here - just someone who's followed it on and off out of curiosity.

    as for environmental impact - I agree that there are certainly worse offenders out there, but when that gets brought up it always seems to be with the implication that crypto could replace the entire financial sector, which is insane (as is often brought up it would take the blockchain years to process a single day's worth of transactions from a single CC processor). right now crypto uses as much energy as a medium-sized country in order to process a handful of transactions which are categorically less secure than going through a centralized bank. I don't think there's a way to fix that.
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