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Thread: Featured Album: RETURN To FOREVER - Hymn Of The Seventh Galaxy

  1. #26
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    Re: Fuzz Bass: Hugh Hopper is the name I most often associate with it. Facelift, Teeth, Virtual and many other Soft Machine Tunes have a plenty of fuzz bass. Isotope's Illusion too.

    Interestingly, I've never imagined Stanley Clarke playing a Rickenbaker, so thanks for sharing the clip.

    I like this RTF album, but soundwise it has always bugged me off.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conti View Post

    I like this RTF album, but soundwise it has always bugged me off.
    This is one of the few albums where I go for the remix preferentially. It's such major improvement of over the lifeless original.

  3. #28
    Member chalkpie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeFrog View Post
    This is one of the few albums where I go for the remix preferentially. It's such major improvement of over the lifeless original.
    Are you talking about the version on The Anthology 2 CD set? The original does sound close to dogshit. Killer album, though.

  4. #29
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    The mixes on the Anthology set are indeed far superior, with brilliant clarity. I just wish they had done the whole catalogue, or at least included all of Where Have I Known You and No Mystery. It's always had an incomplete quality about it, with two albums in their entirety, but only selections from the other two (granted, they are the best tracks, but still). Perhaps it was a matter of keeping it to just 2 CDs, and the retail cost reasonable.
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  5. #30
    Member Kcrimso's Avatar
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    Light As A Feather is my favourite RTF album but this is also quite good.
    "A waste of talent and electricity." John Peel on ELP

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by chalkpie View Post
    Are you talking about the version on The Anthology 2 CD set? The original does sound close to dogshit. Killer album, though.
    Yes, I believe this is the only place to get those remixes, right?

    Hymn is by far my favourite RTF album.
    The first two are totally different with their brazilian influence. My problem with later RTF albums is that I really don't like Chick's synth playing. So Hymn is the only album from the jazz rock era that has no synth and Chick exclusively on electric piano which is what I like best.

  7. #32
    Member chalkpie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kcrimso View Post
    Light As A Feather is my favourite RTF album but this is also quite good.
    I love Feather and 1st RTF album (Chick Corea).
    If it isn't Krautrock, it's krap.

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  8. #33
    This and the Return To Forever "debut" are my faves. The frenetic power and tension of Hymn is truly outstanding.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by chalkpie View Post
    I love Feather and 1st RTF album (Chick Corea).
    This are my favorites as well, although all of the albums that I have by him or RTF are excellent.

    I am somewhat surprised that there isn't a lot of admiration shown for the 1974 release "Where Have I Known You Before". Stanley Clarke's "Vulcan Worlds", Lenny White's "Shadow Of Lo" and Chick's 14-minute epic "Song to the Pharaoh Kings" are all killers and I am one of the few who think Al Di Meola was an able and a more than competent replacement for Connors on guitar.

    However, when you consider the title track, "500 Miles High" and "Spain" on Light As A Feather, what you have is essentially a three song masterpiece (in my view).

  10. #35
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunRunner2 View Post
    I am somewhat surprised that there isn't a lot of admiration shown for the 1974 release "Where Have I Known You Before". Stanley Clarke's "Vulcan Worlds", Lenny White's "Shadow Of Lo" and Chick's 14-minute epic "Song to the Pharaoh Kings" are all killers
    I absolutely love that album from beginning to end. Poor Lenny, that track was supposed to be titled Shadow Of Io (a moon of Jupiter) until the printer screwed up!
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  11. #36
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunRunner2 View Post
    I am somewhat surprised that there isn't a lot of admiration shown for the 1974 release "Where Have I Known You Before".
    Not one of my favorites. "Earth Juice" is pretty awful, and I can't get over the "Midnight Cowboy" theme that keeps appearing in "Vulcan Worlds." "Pharaoh Kings" is great.
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  12. #37
    Where Have I Known You Before is my favorite of the fusion RTF albums. I like Al DiMeola's playing there more than any other album I've heard with him. It occured to me recently that at that point he may have been trying to sound like Connors.

    BTW I've been listening to Paul Bley's albums with Connors later in the 70's, interesting free improv sessions.

  13. #38
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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    For me Al DiMeola's playing detracts on "Where Have I Known You Before" .
    He is technically clever, speedking and all, but his sound is awfull (pedal), and I find him a bit 'mechanical' and lifeless compared to Connors.

    Taste...

    Connors is a chameleon stylewise, periods where he sounds a bit like McLaughlin, then ECM, 3 Holdsworth albums, trad. modern jazz, etc.

  14. #39
    ^ Al Di Meola was perfect for the "clinical" virtuosity of Romantic Warrior, but wouldn't have stood a chance at the obtuse rawness so omnipresent on Hymn.

    IMO.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
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  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    ^ Al Di Meola was perfect for the "clinical" virtuosity of Romantic Warrior, but wouldn't have stood a chance at the obtuse rawness so omnipresent on Hymn.

    IMO.
    IMO 2.
    I never clicked with Romantic Warrior, which all my progloving friends did.

  16. #41
    Member Kcrimso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeuhlmate View Post
    IMO 2.
    I never clicked with Romantic Warrior, which all my progloving friends did.
    It does not really work for me either.
    "A waste of talent and electricity." John Peel on ELP

  17. #42
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    Love it, excellent call Trane!!


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  18. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeuhlmate View Post
    I never clicked with Romantic Warrior, which all my progloving friends did.
    I like it very much, but its overt virtuosity and cleanliness can be menacing and mean in the face of a "proggy-progger" like me. I far prefer the raunch and attack of Hymn.

    Together with the debut Mahavishnu, Hymn was probably the record which paved the direct way for European progressive fusion like Iceberg, Arsenal, Etna, Moose Loose and Fermata. Always less perfectionist and a bit more "rock" than their American counterparts except for Hymn.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  19. #44
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    ^ Al Di Meola was perfect for the "clinical" virtuosity of Romantic Warrior, but wouldn't have stood a chance at the obtuse rawness so omnipresent on Hymn.

    IMO.
    I don't know about the "obtuse" rawness of Hymn, though

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeuhlmate View Post
    IMO 2.
    I never clicked with Romantic Warrior, which all my progloving friends did.
    Well, RW is obviously all about virtuosity, and indeed this is a feat of mostly ADM (and you can find that in his early solo lbums as well),he's way too competitive (he was also very young and probably thought he had to prove something). In those guitar trios, I much prefer when Coryell sat in with McL and PDL than when ADM was in. Coryell contributed (put himself at the service) to the music , whereas vwhen ADM was in, it was a cock fight with the trickiest and flashiest solo to outdo the other two.

    I also found odd (even somewhat suspect) that an Itlaian-descent immigrant would caim a Spanish heritage


    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    I like it very much, but its overt virtuosity and cleanliness can be menacing and mean in the face of a "proggy-progger" like me. I far prefer the raunch and attack of Hymn.
    However odd that may seem, I think RW is almost more of a Gentle Giant-ish (the TP&TG and FH era) album than RTF

    Together with the debut Mahavishnu, Hymn was probably the record which paved the direct way for European progressive fusion like Iceberg, Arsenal, Etna, Moose Loose and Fermata. Always less perfectionist and a bit more "rock" than their American counterparts except for Hymn.

    agreed... even if, you forgot Perigeo , though it's clear they were more of a Soft Machine/Nucleus obedience.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  20. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    I don't know about the "obtuse" rawness of Hymn
    "You Don't Know" is what John Kay keeps singing in "Magic Carpet Ride". It's obtuse as shit'n'hell.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post

    Well, RW is obviously all about virtuosity, and indeed this is a feat of mostly ADM (and you can find that in his early solo lbums as well),he's way too competitive (he was also very young and probably thought he had to prove something). In those guitar trios, I much prefer when Coryell sat in with McL and PDL than when ADM was in. Coryell contributed (put himself at the service) to the music , whereas vwhen ADM was in, it was a cock fight with the trickiest and flashiest solo to outdo the other two.


    agreed... even if, you forgot Perigeo , though it's clear they were more of a Soft Machine/Nucleus obedience.

    I am one of those here that like "Romantic Warrior" a lot. Realizing that it is overblown and somewhat bombastic, I can still appreciate the furious playing not only by Di Meola, but Chick just kills it on every keyboard he employs. As one reviewer noted at the time, RW "is the most fusion out of all the 70's fusion albums. In "Romantic Warrior" we have a FUSION of classical music, funk, hard and prog rock, and jazz, all tied together with a latin flavor". Yeah, it's all over the place, but done so beautifully. Even Gnosis has it rated above eleven, about even with "Hymn's" rating.

    And, ah yes, Perigeo.

  22. #47
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    Dug this one out again. I think I enjoy this the most out of RTF's 'electric' albums. Has a bit more fire and edge than the ones which followed, although from memory I enjoyed Where Have I Known You Before as well.

    No Mystery never struck me as a particularly great album. I quite like Romantic Warrior but I don't love it. The synth sounds are partially responsible but it's slicker across the board.

  23. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    No Mystery never struck me as a particularly great album.
    The great title track sticks out of what otherwise seems to me like an uninspired outing.

  24. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    No Mystery never struck me as a particularly great album.
    Just spun this the other night. I think it starts a little slow, but the latter half is pretty great. The opening tunes just seem a little unfocused and jammy to me. Overall, though, I find it a good listen.

    Bill

  25. #50
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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    Just relistened to Hymn, and agreed the sound is not good, so I ordered Anthology.

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