MLB 2021

[Tangram]

Your Buck tolerance is way high....

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I was on the phone with my brother at the time and complaining about Buck, the ads on the mound and talking to Freeman while he's on the field. I don't need any of that sh*t. Just a baseball game. If we weren't talking, Buck and company would have gotten the boot quicker.

[Tangram]

It can’t possibly ever be America’s pastime again. (I’ll argue that the Internet and streaming and social media have ensured that no singular thing will ever capture America’s attention like Baseball had in its heyday, but that’s a separate thing.)

I don’t particularly like how baseball is being played right now, either. The game I grew up with was fast. The ball was in play, and the base paths were busy. Batters stood in the box after a pitch. And there were problems, too.

There are problems with the game. It’ll be fine. It evolves. Some organization will zig and find success against all the zags.

Well said. For me, the a ball in the gap with a couple of runners running the bases, an outfielder chasing the ball, infielders lining up the cutoff throw is way more exciting than a game where HR's are up but hits are down, strikeouts and walks are plentiful, the running game has been nullified, and guys can't hit to the opposite field even with only one player on that side of the infield.

These are just the results of management thinking more HR's are what everyone wants to see starting with McGwire and Sosa following the massive 'roids era in the 90's. Players adjust to what they are given to try and win games. Most every change since then has been for the hitters to hit HR's. Teams figured out the best way to win is most everyone swings from their heels because HRs are easier to hit, strikeouts be damned. Pitchers, tired of giving up missiles go all out with doctoring the ball. Management finally sees the 6 total hits in the game and a large percentage of the outs via K is boring. So bye bye sticky stuff.

So baseball will continue to evolve.

My wish is teams add some size to some of these ballparks. Which I doubt will happen because that will cost them seats. The latest Yankee Stadium for example, while looking beautiful and having most anything you can think of for a ballgame (any food and drink you want, tons of restaurants and ways to get into your wallet, is too small. There have always been cheap homes to right but it is even shorter than the YS after it was remodeled. The original YS made you pay with an expansive left center to right center. I'm not advocating for fences that are 463 feet away (deepest right center was 490 for all of Babe Ruth's career in NY), but some balance is needed. Imagine Guerrero's titanic All Star Game HR where he definitely would have had to run in the 1st stadium and it would have had a wall scraper when they moved the fences to 463. I don't want to see 7 guys in the lineup striking out 100+ times and some 200+ K's. I'm not looking for parks that big but many were years ago. And you had steals, hit and runs etc. It was a more diverse and interesting game, IMHO.

[ronmac]

Right now, the league strikes out at almost the same rate that Nolan Ryan got Ks. It's more than 23% and his K rate was about 25%.

The league collectively is batting in the mid-.240s.

There's nothing exciting about that.

But, wait, let's squeeze in that 5-second roman.com commercial while the strike-out "victim" walks back to the dugout.

When I was a kid, I spent my entire summer playing pick-up baseball with the neighborhood kids. We ranged from age 5 to about 14. Those are the best memories of my life. I realize times have changed. But, I can't say I've seen anything like that going on in 30 years.

[Scott Bails]

There are problems with the game. It’ll be fine. It evolves. Some organization will zig and find success against all the zags.

I just wish the commissioner understood this.

[polmico]

Right now, the league strikes out at almost the same rate that Nolan Ryan got Ks. It's more than 23% and his K rate was about 25%.

The league collectively is batting in the mid-.240s.

There's nothing exciting about that.

Agreed! Watching the Braves, it seems like they are waiting for the someone to hit a homer. When the batter invariably strikes out, the next guy feels the pressure, chases and strikes out. Ad nauseam. (I don't watch the Yankees much, but it sounds like they have a similar problem.)

I like Tangram's idea of moving back the fences. I like eliminating spider tack (though the way it was handled was bungled badly). One change I would like to see? Just make players stay in the damn box during their AB (it is the rule, after all). No, this doesn't address the problems being raised, but at least it will mercifully cut down on the time it takes to get to the inevitable HR, K or BB.

Perhaps the long-term solution is to train the next generation of players to spray the ball. That will take time. Teams need contact and power, and right now, most just have power. It's easy to say that power hitters should just learn to hit the other way, but that's not what they have trained themselves to do, nor is it what they are paid to do. I don't want to see Freddie Freeman turn into a singles hitter, but I also don't think Ozzie Albies should be batting clean-up and shooting for the fence with every AB.

I just wish the commissioner understood this.

And the owners. And management. And coaches. And the players. Probably fans, too.

The worst thing Manfred can do is overreact. Eliminating shifting would be an overreaction. Thus far, the moves he's made, while unpopular (and deservedly so), have been marginal. Few impact the problem.

But the problem is actually "problems." One fix won't work.

[ronmac]

^^ I'd add a pitch clock, too. They're using it in the minors.

I think the ghost runner rule is the dumbest change in decades. I'm a bit puzzled, though. Manfred has claimed that that was enacted in light of the pandemic to keep interaction down. I certainly don't recall hearing that. I could be mistaken, though.

The seven-inning double-header doesn't bother me too much, since there are rarely double-headers. But I'm one for more baseball, so I'd prefer nine innings.

[polmico]

^When the Minors instituted the pitch clock, I remember thinking that there would be a generation of young pitchers who would naturally pitch faster once they go the Majors, but that doesn't seem to be happening.

I was initially ok with the ghost runner thing; I really don't want to watch a 16-inning game (which is rare, I know). But it's just bad. It's too artificial. I'm sure I posted something about not minding the rule on this forum; I was definitely wrong to see no issue with it.

Double headers are rare enough that seven or nine innings don't really matter. So, yeah, go back to nine innings.

[proggy_jazzer]

RE: the DH

I understand that the pitcher's spot in the batting order was more often than not looked at as an automatic out, but there were strategies that arose from that, some of which created excitement on the field in just the way that is so sorely lacking these days. The DH comes with its own set of strategies as well, but most of them seem to involve getting a player in that position who has the ability to knock the ball out of the park a high % of the time. Have there been many DH whose specialty was contact/situational hitting?

Another by-product of adding the DH to the majors was to increase the "precious"-ness of ML pitchers. I don't think it's totally a coincidence that, before the advent of the DH, pitchers were routinely called upon to go deep in games, and pitch themselves out of sticky situations. Part of that was that lineups included the pitcher in the 9-spot, instead of adding someone whose ONLY job is to hit the cover off the ball. 10% more stress on a starter out of the gate. Ever since the DH was added, it's been a steady progression of asking less of the starters and providing more set-up guys, which process also slows down the game and often results in less interesting offense. This has infected the NL as well. Holy crap, five innings is considered a "quality start" these days, right? Make the pitchers play their entire positions offensively and defensively, and you might see a couple of things: pitchers would take hitting seriously (especially contact/situational) and the time they spent on that would make it less likely that they will spend their time developing a 100 mph fastball-with-movement, which, although impressive, causes injury and shortens careers.

I've read the arguments about fan interest and attendance. Asking in all sincerity: Can anyone tell me what makes the DH a good thing for the game?

[MudShark22]

<tumbleweed rolls by....>

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[polmico]

I've read the arguments about fan interest and attendance. Asking in all sincerity: Can anyone tell me what makes the DH a good thing for the game?

Never having to see a pitcher hit again. Pitchers not hurting themselves attempting to swing and run the bases.

Most pitchers haven't hit since Little League. Putting them in the box against the world's best pitchers just seems pointless.

[moecurlythanu]

Never having to see a pitcher hit again. Pitchers not hurting themselves attempting to swing and run the bases.

Most pitchers haven't hit since Little League. Putting them in the box against the world's best pitchers just seems pointless.

Then go to an 8 man batting order. Having someone who does nothing but hit is unnatural and cheapens the game.

[Scott Bails]

I like Tangram's idea of moving back the fences. I like eliminating spider tack (though the way it was handled was bungled badly). One change I would like to see? Just make players stay in the damn box during their AB (it is the rule, after all). No, this doesn't address the problems being raised, but at least it will mercifully cut down on the time it takes to get to the inevitable HR, K or BB.

Agree with all of this.

Perhaps the long-term solution is to train the next generation of players to spray the ball. That will take time. Teams need contact and power, and right now, most just have power. It's easy to say that power hitters should just learn to hit the other way, but that's not what they have trained themselves to do, nor is it what they are paid to do. I don't want to see Freddie Freeman turn into a singles hitter, but I also don't think Ozzie Albies should be batting clean-up and shooting for the fence with every AB.

The problem is that you need MLB teams to value this. Once it becomes clear that these things have value, then it will trickle down, just the same way the SABR stuff trickled down. I believe it will happen. It just won't happen overnight, and it demands a commissioner who has patience and who won't tinker with the rules to force it.

The worst thing Manfred can do is overreact. Eliminating shifting would be an overreaction. Thus far, the moves he's made, while unpopular (and deservedly so), have been marginal. Few impact the problem.

But the problem is actually "problems." One fix won't work.

Everything he's done has been an overreaction that attempts to attract people who don't like baseball, while completely ignoring their core audience.

^^ I'd add a pitch clock, too. They're using it in the minors.

MLB has a pitch clock. It's just not enforced.

Which brings up another point: MLB umpiring is absolutely awful. Because the umpires aren't held accountable. I assume it's because of an overly generous CBA, but they've gotta do something about it. It's just terrible, and getting worse. Angel Hernandez should not be working in MLB.

I think the ghost runner rule is the dumbest change in decades. I'm a bit puzzled, though. Manfred has claimed that that was enacted in light of the pandemic to keep interaction down. I certainly don't recall hearing that. I could be mistaken, though.

I'd like this to be explained. It never made any sense to me.

Pitchers not hurting themselves attempting to swing and run the bases.

Does this ever really happen, though? I'm sure it's happened a few times, but does it happen enough for it to be considered an issue??

Then go to an 8 man batting order. Having someone who does nothing but hit is unnatural and cheapens the game.

Agreed.

[ronmac]

Does this ever really happen, though? I'm sure it's happened a few times, but does it happen enough for it to be considered an issue?.

Former Yankee, Chien-Ming Wang, was a budding star. He went 19-6 in 2006 and 19-7 in 2008. In an NL park during inter-league play, he was forced to bat. He injured himself running the bases and was never the same. He retired a few years later with 68 career wins. Now, you can argue that an athlete should be able to run bases. And, while that's true, he never had to do it before. That is, until he played in an NL park. You know, the only pro league that still clings to the DH.

Granted, pitchers batting brings different strategy to the game. I won't argue that. Both scenarios can be strategic and entertaining. But, that train left the station decades ago. Considering that the DH extends otherwise worthless players' careers, I'm actually a bit surprised the NL hasn't dumped it by now.

[Scott Bails]

Okay. That's one instance. I can't imagine that it happens enough to make it a valid argument for the DH.

[ronmac]

Okay. That's one instance. I can't imagine that it happens enough to make it a valid argument for the DH.

There are other valid arguments that have already been made. You just don't agree with them, which is your right.

[Scott Bails]

Tonight's Yankees-Red Sox game has been postponed due to several Yankees testing positive for COVID. The Yankees are apparently over the recommended 85% vaccination rate.

Meanwhile, the Phillies have four players out (one tested positive, the others were contact-traced) and are apparently nowhere near 85% and they're playing tomorrow, short-handed.

[ronmac]

Adam Wainwright tore his Achilles tendon in 2015 while batting and was lost for the season. He was one of the best pitchers in all of baseball and was never the same after that.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...ainwad01.shtml

[ronmac]

Following positive COVID-19 tests within the New York Yankees organization, Thursday night's game between the Yankees and the Boston Red Sox at Yankee Stadium has been postponed to allow for continued testing and contact tracing. Major League Baseball will continue to provide scheduling updates as available.

I am not surprised one damn bit about this. I fully expect more of this.

[Scott Bails]

Great story, regardless of whether it's true or not:

On this date in 1994, umpires confiscated Albert Belle's bat and locked it in the umpire's dressing room.
The Tribe dispatched relief pitcher Jason Grimsley to retrieve the bat. Grimsley, pictured below, took a bat belonging to Indians player Paul Sorrento and accessed the area above the false ceiling in the clubhouse and crawled across with a flashlight in his mouth until he reached the umpires' room.
He switched Belle's bat with Sorrento's and returned to the clubhouse. During the sixth inning, the umpires' custodian noticed clumps of ceiling tile on the floor of the umpire's room, plus twisted metal brackets in the ceiling. After the game, Phillips noticed the bats were different when he saw that the replacement bat was not as shiny and also was stamped with Sorrento's signature.
The Chicago police were called and the White Sox threatened charges against the burglar. An investigation that Saturday was carried out by a former FBI agent flown in by MLB. The equipment room was dusted for fingerprints and the path the burglar took was discovered.
MLB told the Tribe to either produce the bat, or there would be a full investigation -- they produced the bat, which was X-rayed and sawed in half in front of Tribe GM John Hart -- it was corked -- Belle got a 10 game suspension that was later reduced Grimsley's role in the matter was not confirmed until he was with the Yankees and he told the story in an interview for the New York Times.

[moecurlythanu]

^ It's an absolutely true story. Part of Cleveland lore.

[ronmac]

Following positive COVID-19 tests within the New York Yankees organization, Thursday night's game between the Yankees and the Boston Red Sox at Yankee Stadium has been postponed to allow for continued testing and contact tracing. Major League Baseball will continue to provide scheduling updates as available.

I am not surprised one damn bit about this. I fully expect more of this.

Turns out that Aaron Judge in on the list of possible cases, currently being tested. He was at the All-Star game, too.

Yikes and double-yikes.

[Dave (in MA)]

Another one, 5 years ago, Sox knuckleballer Steven Wright injured his shoulder while running the bases being used as a pinch runner, and the following week was put on the DL for the rest of the season.

[proggy_jazzer]

Asking in all sincerity: Can anyone tell me what makes the DH a good thing for the game?

Still waiting...

I can't buy the injury argument. Any player can become injured at any time in any game, doing what they specialize in or not. They're professional athletes and are well-compensated for the risks they take, not to mention having access to the absolute best conditioning regimens and health care in the world 24/7/365. I can't think of another instance in pro sports where there's a player who by rule can only serve one limited function in a game. Even goaltenders can be pulled to become strikers under the right strategic circumstances.

The argument that the DH should be adopted in the NL just because "it's time" doesn't address my question. Neither does the statement that pitchers "haven't been required to hit since little league".

I'm honestly willing to be persuaded, but as a fan of the sport since the 60s, I question whether the addition of the DH has been a positive or a negative on balance. I would think that if it were so overwhelmingly positive, we wouldn't still be debating whether or not the senior circuit should adopt it nearly fifty years on.

[ronmac]

I'm honestly willing to be persuaded, but as a fan of the sport since the 60s, I question whether the addition of the DH has been a positive or a negative on balance. I would think that if it were so overwhelmingly positive, we wouldn't still be debating whether or not the senior circuit should adopt it nearly fifty years on.

I would think that if it were so overwhelmingly negative, most other leagues would have reverted back to batting pitchers.

To be clear, I've conceded that both scenarios have strategic and entertainment attributes. The players have clearly embraced it. Ownerships seems to. All the other levels of pro ball have. How about making the case why they should all go back to the way it was before 1973?

[Vic2012]

IDK, I think of pitchers as similar to a QB in football. Simplistic comparison but that's how I see it. So, I'm not against the DH. I just don't get why it's not used in the NL.