Metallica's Ride the Lightning vs. Iron Maiden's Powerslave?

[Kum Ruzvelt]

Which metal classic from 1984 do you prefer and why?

[SteveSly]

Wow, that is a really difficult question. I love both albums, and both were particularly important releases for each respective band. I think I am going to go with “Powerslave”. It is still a favorite Maiden album for me, and one where they reached their full potential. “Lightning” was still a developmental album for Metallica, and they would improve with their next two albums, both of which I like better.

[Progatron]

Powerslave. I do think Ride The Lightning has some killers on it (Ktulu, Creeping Death, Bell Tolls) and was a major advancement from their debut, but it also has two of the weakest tracks from the classic period (Escape, Ice) whereas Maiden were firing on all cylinders without a weak cut on Powerslave. Putting that one up against Master Of Puppets might be a more difficult choice.

[Vic2012]

I am going to go with “Powerslave”. It is still a favorite Maiden album for me, and one where they reached their full potential. “Lightning” was still a developmental album for Metallica, and they would improve with their next two albums, both of which I like better.

My exact sentiment. Both great albums but Powerslave is perfection.

it also has two of the weakest tracks from the classic period (Escape, Ice)

I love both those tracks, as much as anything on that album.

[GuitarGeek]

Powerslave. Better album by a better band. I get how Metallica represented...I dunno "a step forward" or whatever, ya know, louder, faster, "angrier", whatever any of that actually achieved. But Maiden had better songwriting, better guitar playing, better production, etc.

[progmatist]

Ironically, most songs on Ride the Lightning were written by Dave Mustaine, who was booted out of the band before Kill 'em All.

[Progatron]

Ironically, most songs on Ride the Lightning were written by Dave Mustaine

He co-wrote two of the eight songs.

[GuitarGeek]

re: Dave Mustaine on Ride The Lightning

He co-wrote two of the eight songs.

Stuff that was written before he got booted. As I recall, there's one or two songs that appear in both the early Metallica catalog, and the early Megadeth catalog, but I forget which ones now.

[Progatron]

Probably stuff that was written before he got booted.

Oh, you think?

[progmatist]

I distinctly remember reading the cassette insert, and seeing almost every song credited to Mustaine alone. Either I'm misremembering, or they must have done that just to stick it to him. Much like they subtracted Newsted from the Justice album to haze him. I got rid of the tape years ago, so I can't go back and look.

[Progatron]

I distinctly remember reading the cassette insert, and seeing almost every song credited to Mustaine alone. Either I'm misremembering, or they must have done that just to stick it to him. Much like they subtracted Newsted from the Justice album to haze him. I got rid of the tape years ago, so I can't go back and look.

Definitely misremembering. It happens.

Newsted's near complete absence on Justice is one of the great...well, INjustices of metal history. That album should have been remixed by now. Instead they gave us a worthless remaster a couple of years back.

[Progatron]

BTW for anyone who has never seen this or was unaware, skip to the 5:00 mark. Cute little nod there.

[GuitarGeek]

Newsted's near complete absence on Justice is one of the great...well, INjustices of metal history. That album should have been remixed by now. Instead they gave us a worthless remaster a couple of years back.

According to Scott Thompson, one of the mixing engineers who worked on ...And Justice For All, the master tape is probably "a pile of dust by now" because of all the edits there were on the multi-track tape. He said he regrets not doing a mix of that album at the time, "for myself", because there's likely no chance to correct Lars' idiot judgement (the mix was dictated by Lars to Thompson and Michael Barbiero).

[Sean]

I liked both at the time. My gut urge is to choose Powerslave, it is one of their very best. But I think Ride The Lightning had a much bigger influence in the scheme of things. Eariler Maiden albums were too, but not so much by Powerslave.

[ronmac]

Is this the return of Svet with all of these versus threads?

[Jerjo]

Is this the return of Svet with all of these versus threads?

I suspect so.

[TheLoony]

Which metal classic from 1984 do you prefer and why?

Maiden always trumps anyone else although AJFA does regard some serious contention even if the production is shit. I'll take Powerslave any day over anything in the Metallica catalog except AJFA.

[TheLoony]

According to Scott Thompson, one of the mixing engineers who worked on ...And Justice For All, the master tape is probably "a pile of dust by now" because of all the edits there were on the multi-track tape. He said he regrets not doing a mix of that album at the time, "for myself", because there's likely no chance to correct Lars' idiot judgement (the mix was dictated by Lars to Thompson and Michael Barbiero).

Well, according to Newstead on That Metal Show, he said it was his fault that the bass came out wrong. Something about recording at the same time or other, I never really did get what he was saying. What the hell I know is probably next to nothing regarding this but he said it.

[3LockBox]

Well, according to Newstead on That Metal Show, he said it was his fault that the bass came out wrong. Something about recording at the same time or other, I never really did get what he was saying. What the hell I know is probably next to nothing regarding this but he said it.

I remember seeing that as well

[jellyfishfingers]

Powerslave. I was at THAT point in my mid teens when I was discovering rock, and Maiden was a particular passion, along with Rush. Metallica didn't hit my radar until a handful of years later.

[GuitarGeek]

Well, according to Newstead on That Metal Show, he said it was his fault that the bass came out wrong. Something about recording at the same time or other, I never really did get what he was saying. What the hell I know is probably next to nothing regarding this but he said it.

"Recrding at the same time" as what? Certainly not the same time as the other musicians, because Metallica recorded everything one instrument at a time. I remember Hetfield talking about that in Guitar Player back in 1989. They'd write out a click track, Lars would go in and do the drums to the click track, then each of them would go in and overdub their parts, with Hetfield playing all the guitars excepts the solos. The only Kirk Hammett did on those first four albums was solos. I think James said that's the way they recorded all the albums up to that point.

As I understand it, The Black Album was the first one where they laid down the basic tracks with all four of them in the studio, with Kirk actually playing something besides solos. I think Bob Rock, the guy who produced that one, said "Kirk had to suffer along with the rest of them". But then I also recall reading that Kirk doesn't play at all on Nothing Else Matters, I think it was, so I don't know if that means he just didn't play on that song, or if he played on the basic tracks, but then Hetfield replaced them.

Getting back to ...And Justice For All, I do remember Jason saying in Guitar Player back in 1989 that he wished he could have used his Wal bass (apparently one of the last ones Ian Waller built before he passed away), which he didn't get until after they had recorded the album.

BUt it seems to me like if there was a problem with the bass on the tapes, couldn't he have just re-overdubbed everything? I mean, at what point do you say, "The bass doesn't sound right, we need to redo it"? Do you listen to the first track after it's recorded and say "We need to redo that" or do you wait until everything's recorded, the deadline is approaching, and you suddenly realize, "Gee, we can't release the record with the bass sounding like that!"?

I'm inclined to believe Scott Thompson's version of things for a couple reasons. Thompson and Barberio were later hired to mix Anthrax's Persistence Of Time, and when Scott Ian and Danny Spitz were intervieweed Guitar Player, they mentioned that first thing Scott and Mike said to them was "Let's make this record sound the way ...And Justice For All could have sounded", adding that "apparently, the mix was dictated to them".

Also, I'm inclined to believe that Lars and James were probably still in mourning over Cliff, and the dysfunctional fall out from that, was, among other things, that the bass got potted down. I think the same thing happened after John Entwistle died, and The Who kept going with Pino Palladino on bass, they'd have the bass mixed way lower than it had been during the Thunderfingers years, again presumably as an act of "respect".

I also remember Kirk Hammett saying on That Metal Show that if Cliff had lived, you'd be able to hear the bass on AJFA.

Here's the Scott Thompson interview where he talks about how Lars dictated that mix to him:

[Vic2012]

Listening to A Matter of Life and Death today. Still my favorite of the 2000s Maiden albums.

[Scott Bails]

BTW for anyone who has never seen this or was unaware, skip to the 5:00 mark. Cute little nod there.

That was pretty cool. And very Mike Portnoy.