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Thread: Canterbury Binge: 2021

  1. #201
    Member chalkpie's Avatar
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    Kevin Ayers "Gemini Child"....what a great tune.
    If it isn't Krautrock, it's krap.

    "And it's only the giving
    That makes you what you are" - Ian Anderson

  2. #202
    Member chalkpie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    To put it like this; I think side 1 of the debut is a marvellous little journey through the particular wit and whim of Wyatt's, backed by the others' melodies and working safely in tandem. Side 2 opens brilliantly, but actually loses me on the way. The substance matter simply isn't strong enough to my ears.

    Whereas Little Red, again, has more of the nonsensical and rude farce yet also more cunning arrangements and just out'n'out playing on top of them. And while the debut may have one of the most memorable opening tunes on any Canterbury album, the followup has "God Song". If any tiny ditty of a track serves to convey the Canterburian mysteries of equilibrium in humour or overall mood, twisted harmony, message or whatever - "God Song" comes in at the high.
    I felt very similar with the 2nd side of MM s/t, but when I heard it with fresh "" ears, then it REALLY worked for me, and now I'm in. Whatever it takes....
    If it isn't Krautrock, it's krap.

    "And it's only the giving
    That makes you what you are" - Ian Anderson

  3. #203
    Another vote for Little Red Record from me.

  4. #204
    Member chalkpie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zappathustra View Post
    Another vote for Little Red Record from me.
    I just played the whole album. Love it. Weird fuckin voices on that too. A "dry" recording but it totally works. Dave McCrae is a badass, he can really play.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    To put it like this; I think side 1 of the debut is a marvellous little journey through the particular wit and whim of Wyatt's, backed by the others' melodies and working safely in tandem. Side 2 opens brilliantly, but actually loses me on the way. The substance matter simply isn't strong enough to my ears.

    Whereas Little Red, again, has more of the nonsensical and rude farce yet also more cunning arrangements and just out'n'out playing on top of them. And while the debut may have one of the most memorable opening tunes on any Canterbury album, the followup has "God Song". If any tiny ditty of a track serves to convey the Canterburian mysteries of equilibrium in humour or overall mood, twisted harmony, message or whatever - "God Song" comes in at the high.
    The 2nd side of the s/t does lose me a little, around the time of "Dedicated to Hugh But You Weren't Listening". Definitely prefer side 1, although "Instant Kitten" is pretty killer. The rest of the album feels more like an atmospheric coda of a sort. For lack of a better term.

    "God Song" is good, and some of those lyrics are pretty funny.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by chalkpie View Post
    Dave McCrae is a badass, he can really play.
    One of the best musicians to ever touch upon "progressive rock" in the UK - IMHO. This guy actually possessed the real jazz chops and completely purposefully transferred them to a wholly other setting. Little Red Record, Nucleus' Labyrinth and Elton Dean's Just Us all attest to his immense talent. And while only the first one sits squarely in the ring of rock music, his contribution makes all the difference.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  7. #207
    Member Kcrimso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    One of the best musicians to ever touch upon "progressive rock" in the UK - IMHO. This guy actually possessed the real jazz chops and completely purposefully transferred them to a wholly other setting. Little Red Record, Nucleus' Labyrinth and Elton Dean's Just Us all attest to his immense talent. And while only the first one sits squarely in the ring of rock music, his contribution makes all the difference.
    McCrae also has big role on The Walker Brothers' fine album Nite Flights (1978)
    "A waste of talent and electricity." John Peel on ELP

  8. #208
    I have listened to a couple of "haven't listened to them for a while " records
    Caravan : Back To Front , not as bad as remembered, very Sinclairish with a majority of Dave and Richard tracks
    Soft Machine : BBC in concert 71 great record! !!!
    Morgan Fisher : Miniatures , more RIO then Canterbury, but definitely the spirit , love some of the funny tracks
    HTN found a sealed s/t fake Dutch pressing very cheap at a regular retailor, it's obviously a boot, but the cover and record are excellent, just the drums sound a bit muffled compared to my original French pressing

  9. #209
    ^ I used to know a guy (bass player in my band back then, now playing 80s Casio-toy-synth for this combo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datarock) while I was still living in Bergen who opted to buy three copies of the first H&tN on vinyl. "One for spinning and one for the vault", he used to say; when I asked him "What about the third one in the middle?" he always replied "I believe it's a boot, yet it counts!"

    In other words, even a H&tN Dutch boot is worth owning and preserving.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    ^ I used to know a guy (bass player in my band back then, now playing 80s Casio-toy-synth for this combo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datarock) while I was still living in Bergen who opted to buy three copies of the first H&tN on vinyl. "One for spinning and one for the vault", he used to say; when I asked him "What about the third one in the middle?" he always replied "I believe it's a boot, yet it counts!"

    In other words, even a H&tN Dutch boot is worth owning and preserving.
    Absolutely :-)

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by alucard View Post
    Caravan : Back To Front , not as bad as remembered, very Sinclairish with a majority of Dave and Richard tracks
    That got a blink-and-you'll-miss-it CD reissue by (as was) Eclectic in the mid 2000s, but hasn't been re-released since. I don't like the dreary, soppy ballad 'Sally Don't Change It', but otherwise it's a decent album. The first and last songs are better than decent, in fact. It's also the only studio album after 1971 to contain the original line-up.

    I don't think I've ever heard its predecessor The Album, as it has a poor reputation.

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    That got a blink-and-you'll-miss-it CD reissue by (as was) Eclectic in the mid 2000s, but hasn't been re-released since. I don't like the dreary, soppy ballad 'Sally Don't Change It', but otherwise it's a decent album. The first and last songs are better than decent, in fact. It's also the only studio album after 1971 to contain the original line-up.

    I don't think I've ever heard its predecessor The Album, as it has a poor reputation.
    I found Better By Far and Back To Front quite cheap on vinyl. I like the original Kingdom cover for BTF. I listened to 'The Album' recently, not very interesting.

  13. #213
    Member chalkpie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    One of the best musicians to ever touch upon "progressive rock" in the UK - IMHO. This guy actually possessed the real jazz chops and completely purposefully transferred them to a wholly other setting. Little Red Record, Nucleus' Labyrinth and Elton Dean's Just Us all attest to his immense talent. And while only the first one sits squarely in the ring of rock music, his contribution makes all the difference.
    Cool, danke R. That was going to be my next question, so I will search those out and check out his playing on that stuff. Amongst the keyboard prague deities such as Banks, Wakeman, etc this cat is never really mentioned, but I guess it makes sense since he is more of a jazzer it seems.
    If it isn't Krautrock, it's krap.

    "And it's only the giving
    That makes you what you are" - Ian Anderson

  14. #214
    Member chalkpie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alucard View Post
    HTN found a sealed s/t fake Dutch pressing very cheap at a regular retailor, it's obviously a boot, but the cover and record are excellent, just the drums sound a bit muffled compared to my original French pressing
    Pip's drums can sound 'muffled' on the s/t Hatfield as rule, especially in the first track, and he seems to be mixed softer than on Rotters' Club as a whole (at least to my ears). That aside, he is absolutely mind-blowing on those rekkids - he is the very definition of perfection.
    If it isn't Krautrock, it's krap.

    "And it's only the giving
    That makes you what you are" - Ian Anderson

  15. #215
    Member chalkpie's Avatar
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    What a gem this is! Holy Canterbury balls.....
    If it isn't Krautrock, it's krap.

    "And it's only the giving
    That makes you what you are" - Ian Anderson

  16. #216
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    ^ That was fantastic!
    He did not know that the sword he'd hold, would turn his priceless empire into fool's gold...

    http://www.discogs.com/user/moecurlythanu/collection

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    ^ I used to know a guy (bass player in my band back then, now playing 80s Casio-toy-synth for this combo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datarock) while I was still living in Bergen who opted to buy three copies of the first H&tN on vinyl. "One for spinning and one for the vault", he used to say; when I asked him "What about the third one in the middle?" he always replied "I believe it's a boot, yet it counts!"

    In other words, even a H&tN Dutch boot is worth owning and preserving.
    Your friend/bandmate was right.

    And wow, I remember Datarock! I heard their song "The Pretender" back in 2010 I think and really liked it. Small world.

  18. #218
    Banned Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    Little Red Record, Nucleus' Labyrinth and Elton Dean's Just Us all attest to his immense talent. And while only the first one sits squarely in the ring of rock music, his contribution makes all the difference.
    Were there any recordings?

  19. #219
    Member Kcrimso's Avatar
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    Listened Matching Mole's debut yesterday. It is not generally among my favourite Canterbury-albums but god damn how good it tasted this time. Robert Wyatt's drumming is wonderful and I did not remember how upfront it is mixed.
    "A waste of talent and electricity." John Peel on ELP

  20. #220
    ^ Awesome! I'm glad you liked it more this time. Totally agree about Wyatt's drumming on that one.

  21. #221
    Member chalkpie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kcrimso View Post
    Listened Matching Mole's debut yesterday. It is not generally among my favourite Canterbury-albums but god damn how good it tasted this time. Robert Wyatt's drumming is wonderful and I did not remember how upfront it is mixed.
    Yep! I also was marveling at how good his playing is on this album and how well he tuned his drums - it's so crystal clear and evident on this recording. Sonically I prefer the production on the s/t over LRR, but musically they are both great to my ears.
    If it isn't Krautrock, it's krap.

    "And it's only the giving
    That makes you what you are" - Ian Anderson

  22. #222
    ^ Any thoughts on why he preferred to "unstring" the snare-effect, Frankster? He's pretty stringed-up in much of his drumming with the Softs, I always wondered why he decided to go for the dry sound with the Moles. O'Dair's biography doesn't really treat the topic of his drumming technique at all from a purely musical perspective, which I always assumed was due to Wyatt's own choice of admission to memory.

    The fact that Wyatt was an absolutely excellent albeit "untrained" drummer really needs to be adressed, as he tackled som pretty damn demanding charts by the time of SM 4. "Teeth", for instance, or a couple of the sessions for BBC with the sextet, must have been a bitch to handle, especially for someone who didn't read notes.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  23. #223
    Member chalkpie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    ^ Any thoughts on why he preferred to "unstring" the snare-effect, Frankster? He's pretty stringed-up in much of his drumming with the Softs, I always wondered why he decided to go for the dry sound with the Moles. O'Dair's biography doesn't really treat the topic of his drumming technique at all from a purely musical perspective, which I always assumed was due to Wyatt's own choice of admission to memory.

    The fact that Wyatt was an absolutely excellent albeit "untrained" drummer really needs to be adressed, as he tackled som pretty damn demanding charts by the time of SM 4. "Teeth", for instance, or a couple of the sessions for BBC with the sextet, must have been a bitch to handle, especially for someone who didn't read notes.
    That's a great question, and when I spun LRR the other night I was noticing that as well. I think it's cool as an effect once in a while for drummers to have the snares "off", but the THWACK backbeat is absent sometimes without it. It's closer to another tom in this context. Maybe Bobby Frippster had an influence on that decision? I guess if anybody would know it would be Aymeric or Robert himself?

    Maybe his "untrained" approach helped him to develop his unique playing style....it's quite sad to see that his kit playing ended there because he was just tearing it up by this point.
    If it isn't Krautrock, it's krap.

    "And it's only the giving
    That makes you what you are" - Ian Anderson

  24. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by chalkpie View Post
    Maybe his "untrained" approach helped him to develop his unique playing style....it's quite sad to see that his kit playing ended there because he was just tearing it up by this point.
    Definitely. I can't recall where I read it, but apparently his only truly heartfelt rock/pop influence in terms of drumming (seeing as he mostly admired jazz and soul percussionists) were basically session players and Keith Moon, and I'd suppose Mitch Mitchell as well. And you can torally hear the zaniness of the latter in many of Wyatt's daring fills and juxtapositions; some of it sounds like the kind of risks one takes only when rather inebriated while playing, still he's the complete master of control. The semi-legendary footage from Paris 1970 shows an improvisational approach in the eerie middle of chaos and complete discipline, although it isn't always clear which of the two is intended.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  25. #225
    My first encounter with Soft Machine was Vol1 and Vol2 on a written tape, and I knew nothing about Robert's huge later career, or even his accident. And the first thing that stroke out was the drums. For me and my friend Soft Machine was initially the "band with this beast of a drummer".

    Robert has done SO much, so people tend to forget what a brilliant, unique drummer he was. Or maybe they prefer to forget it, in relation to the accident that cut so early - and so painfully - his drumming abilities.

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