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Thread: Canterbury Binge: 2021

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    The first Egg album is amazing as the work of a couple of 18-year-olds
    Yes I suppose, but even more so is Khan's Space Shanty when considering how Hillage was only 19 on writing the contents. Of course I realize how Stewart probably was heavily involved in arrangements, but that mid-section of the opening title track alone must have taken some true guts to assemble and not least rehearse. However, the most impressive faccet of this album is the overall level of enthusiasm and energy by which so relatively advanced rock is delivered by young musicians. It never fails to amaze me when I listen to it; they were mostly -so- far ahead of what was usually being produced by underground "proto-progressive" groups in 1971 it's almost dazzling.
    Last edited by Scrotum Scissor; 2 Weeks Ago at 11:34 AM.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    Yes I suppose, but even more so is Khan's Space Shanty when considering how Hillage was only 19 on writing the contents.
    I forgot how young Hillage was when Space Shanty was recorded. That is pretty crazy.

    A few years ago I saw a copy of Egg's first LP in my local record store, and now I'm kinda kicking myself for not buying it. I doubt it's still there.

    More Grey and Pink today, because it's hard to have too much of this stuff. I still think that "Nine Feet Underground" goes on a bit too long there at the end, but it's such a good song regardless. I should dust off that BBC recording today too.

  3. #53
    Member Kcrimso's Avatar
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    For some reason I have never been so excited about Space Khanty. It is alright but... somehow something is missing.
    "A waste of talent and electricity." John Peel on ELP

  4. #54
    Whoa, was listening to Rock Bottom and I'd forgotten what a good tune "Last Straw" is.

  5. #55
    ^ I have to say that I absolutely LOVE the sheer atmosphere of adolescent joy and conviction in Space Shanty. Nick Greenwood sounds as though he's only halfway through his pubertile voicechange. And the production values are blissfully aware of all attentions to detail, even on a low-budget issue such as this one. I have to say that I'd rate it way above the Arzachel or debut Egg, although a notch behind the masterwork of Polite Force.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  6. #56
    Member Kcrimso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    ^ I have to say that I absolutely LOVE the sheer atmosphere of adolescent joy and conviction in Space Shanty. Nick Greenwood sounds as though he's only halfway through his pubertile voicechange. And the production values are blissfully aware of all attentions to detail, even on a low-budget issue such as this one. I have to say that I'd rate it way above the Arzachel or debut Egg, although a notch behind the masterwork of Polite Force.
    Well yes I also rate Space Shanty above Arzachel and the debut of Egg but then I don't much like Arzachel. First Egg is ok. The Polite Force is simply wonderful. The Civil Surface is little bit uneven but has some wonderful stuff ("Enneagram"!). I am also on the camp that thinks that drums on The Civil Surface are mixed way too loud.
    "A waste of talent and electricity." John Peel on ELP

  7. #57
    Just one of the highlights (IMO) from Smith. I forgot that this actually had Richard Sinclair on vocals. No wonder it sounds so much like him!


  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
    Does this seem to have some Canterbury aromas for you ?

    Yes, faintly - and I certainly remember you telling how this exceeds your penchant for the rest of their (Conventum's) work. But I have to say that no matter how much I adore the Recommended Sampler, other than the contributions by The Muffins and Decibel I never really thought of any of its contents as particularly 'Canterburian'. Even the excellent Picchio dal Pozzo-contribution ("Ucellin del Bosco") comes across as from their most immediate post-Canterbury wake.

    I always heard that Conventum track as I did those Rare Birds-recordings from Grits; soundalikes/reminiscent to certain obvious assets of the Canterbury aesthetic, yet probably not directly influenced by it.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  9. #59
    Member chalkpie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aith01 View Post
    Just one of the highlights (IMO) from Smith. I forgot that this actually had Richard Sinclair on vocals. No wonder it sounds so much like him!
    What??!! I like!!

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by chalkpie View Post
    What??!! I like!!
    Sweet! I had a feeling you might.

    All three of their studio albums are worth owning, IMO. My fave is probably their first one, but Smith has been steadily growing on me. They did a live recording that was really good too. Some of them are up on Bandcamp.

    https://thewinstons.bandcamp.com/

  11. #61
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    New Symphonia was a bad choice - that album sucks!
    No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no.

    Lovely album. I have a special nostalgic fondness for it, having bought it for myself for my birthday many years ago.
    Crappy old album that you wouldn't want to listen to anyway THE HIPCRIME VOCAB available now!
    https://michaelpdawson.bandcamp.com
    "Ide o zmes prog rocku, cosmic music, electronic music a classical music. Prekvapivá a dosť divoká hudobná jazda je vo výslednom efekte znamenitá." - Martin Slávik

  12. #62
    Member Kcrimso's Avatar
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    Nothing wrong with New Symphonia. It is a great album. One of the more successful fusions of rock band and orchestra.
    "A waste of talent and electricity." John Peel on ELP

  13. #63
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post

    I always heard that Conventum track as I did those Rare Birds-recordings from Grits; soundalikes/reminiscent to certain obvious assets of the Canterbury aesthetic, yet probably not directly influenced by it.
    Rick was utterly and completely ignorant of, and uninterested in, Canterbury music.

    He was uninterested in most recorded music and he was only ever enthusiastic over seeing opera.
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "You run a great label, but sometimes you go out of your way to be a jerk." - Jed Levin

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  14. #64
    Member chalkpie's Avatar
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    I never realized "Shaving is Boring" is like two tracks in one...what an amazing piece.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by aith01 View Post
    Sweet! I had a feeling you might.

    All three of their studio albums are worth owning, IMO. My fave is probably their first one, but Smith has been steadily growing on me. They did a live recording that was really good too. Some of them are up on Bandcamp.

    https://thewinstons.bandcamp.com/
    Excellent...thanks Tyler! Happy new year to all you Canterbury freaks too

    I am cranking all Canterbury here at Casa Frankie tonight until my wife gets home from work and pulls the plug on this party

  16. #66
    ^ Happy to help!

    It's been nothing but Canterbury here all day. Just a little while ago I finished the first Hatfield album for the first time in quite a bit. I hadn't realized that about "Shaving is Boring" either. What have you got playing right now?

    Thinking I might go with Rotter's Club next...

  17. #67
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    I think its time Kris Gietkowski was added to the Canterbury list -I've been listening to his 'Symmetric Communication' album today, and its moved from being a very good Egg soundalike to something to be enjoyed on its own after the fourth play. At the very least you have to admire his commitment to reproducing that sound so convincingly.

  18. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    Rick [...] was uninterested in most recorded music and he was only ever enthusiastic over seeing opera.
    Which always fascinated me to quite the degree; I mean, what were their obvious sources in "popular" music then? You've told us earlier that he didn't really like or listen to Zappa or New Grass Revival or those first two DDregs or anything else I can think of that they'd might overall remind of; then how do you go about making such intensely advanced rock/jazz/folk/pop music? The highly melodic and fairly easy-going yet still compositionally refined shorter tracks of Amy Taylor leave an open question, except for perhaps some Burt Bacharach or Jimmy Webb or whatever - but where did those immediate impulses stem from?
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  19. #69
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    Which always fascinated me to quite the degree; I mean, what were their obvious sources in "popular" music then? You've told us earlier that he didn't really like or listen to Zappa or New Grass Revival or those first two DDregs or anything else I can think of that they'd might overall remind of; then how do you go about making such intensely advanced rock/jazz/folk/pop music? The highly melodic and fairly easy-going yet still compositionally refined shorter tracks of Amy Taylor leave an open question, except for perhaps some Burt Bacharach or Jimmy Webb or whatever - but where did those immediate impulses stem from?
    I think he did know Zappa and was somewhat influenced by the Mothers Of Invention (remember, Grits started playing in 1970 and by 1972, they definitely had THAT SOUND - I encountered them in 1973 and much of As The World Grits dates from 1972/73). But he definitely wasn’t a fan of or a listener to FZ. He definitely didn’t know Dixie Dregs, and anyway Grits had been going for SEVEN years when the first Dixie Dregs was released.

    Were the OTHER members? It would be hard for me to believe that as a guitarist Tom Wright didn’t know Zappa, but I don’t know.

    It’s more likely to me, knowing him the very little bit that I did, that Rick was more influenced by Webb and Bacharach than ANYTHING happening in progressive rock....but I just don’t know.
    Last edited by Steve F.; 2 Weeks Ago at 09:53 PM.
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "You run a great label, but sometimes you go out of your way to be a jerk." - Jed Levin

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  20. #70
    Space Shanty is better than I remembered. I listened to the whole thing in one sitting while going through some red wine. Not bad at all really.

  21. #71
    Member chalkpie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aith01 View Post
    Space Shanty is better than I remembered. I listened to the whole thing in one sitting while going through some red wine. Not bad at all really.
    Its great stuff, not masterpiecel level for Canterbury but damn great.

    "Watching"CNN and crankin' Caravan If I could/Grey and Pink shuffle mode. These albums are the greatest. What a vibe and mood these albums take you to. Sinclair is such a great player, fun just checking him out.

  22. #72
    Sinclair is great! I love his voice too.

    I was sorting through papers and put on Third by SM, and then Moonmadness by Camel (finally using my turntable again). Pretty nice.

  23. #73
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    re: the above discussion on Grits and the Canterbury scene, two excerpts from an interview I did with Rick Barse in 1997 -

    "It's hard for me to assess influences, but I can tell you I enjoyed listening to a lot of the music in the late sixties. I particularly loved the Beatles and the Mothers of Invention (Freak Out, Absolutely Free and We're Only In It For The Money were great records) and they both reinforced the notion that a band could be free to do just about anything. But truth be told, it was Wagner, Verdi, Puccini and Mozart operas that I loved the most. I went to the opera as often as possible. After 1971, I don't think I ever bought an album except for operas. I just stopped listening to any contemporary popular music at all".

    "I'm clueless about the Canterbury context. I called Steve Feigenbaum and asked him who the Canterburies are or were and he told me Soft Machine, Hatfield and the North and maybe some others, but those were the only two names I recognized. As far as I know, I'd never heard any of their music, so I'm still unable to make a connection between what we did and what they did".
    Calyx (Canterbury Scene) - http://www.calyx-canterbury.fr
    Legends In Their Own Lunchtime (blog) - https://canterburyscene.wordpress.com/
    My latest books : "Yes" (2017) - https://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/yes/ + "L'Ecole de Canterbury" (2016) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/lecoledecanterbury/ + "King Crimson" (2012/updated 2018) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/kingcrimson/
    Canterbury & prog interviews - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdf...IUPxUMA/videos

  24. #74
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    re: the above discussion on Grits and the Canterbury scene, two excerpts from an interview I did with Rick Barse in 1997 -

    "It's hard for me to assess influences, but I can tell you I enjoyed listening to a lot of the music in the late sixties. I particularly loved the Beatles and the Mothers of Invention (Freak Out, Absolutely Free and We're Only In It For The Money were great records) and they both reinforced the notion that a band could be free to do just about anything. But truth be told, it was Wagner, Verdi, Puccini and Mozart operas that I loved the most. I went to the opera as often as possible. After 1971, I don't think I ever bought an album except for operas. I just stopped listening to any contemporary popular music at all".

    "I'm clueless about the Canterbury context. I called Steve Feigenbaum and asked him who the Canterburies are or were and he told me Soft Machine, Hatfield and the North and maybe some others, but those were the only two names I recognized. As far as I know, I'd never heard any of their music, so I'm still unable to make a connection between what we did and what they did".
    THANK YOU, Aymeric. He was a FZ fan early but he dropped out of rock listening early too.
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "You run a great label, but sometimes you go out of your way to be a jerk." - Jed Levin

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  25. #75
    I remember the track "Plastic Hits" from As the World Grits had Zappa-esque humor and the vocals sounded similar enough to Flo & Eddie that it seemed to me like a deliberate imitation. That would fit in with the 1971 cutoff though.

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