That album convinced me for years (wrongly) that I wasn't going to like Frampton's studio work. The hypermellow sound turned me off, and the feeling for six months that you couldn't turn on the radio without hearing the endless noodling of "Do You Feel Like We Do" drove me to tears. (This was in days when cars mostly had AM radios and no tape players, so AM was what we were stuck with.)Originally Posted by bigbassdrum
I still loathe that album, which is a rare exception to my general rule.
Cobra handling and cocaine use are a bad mix.
I think 'Summer Soldier' in particular was far superior on there. My favourite version of 'Medicine Man' is a 1972 BBC session, though this one on the double live is great.
Of the stuff the '72-'74 Crimson's output, almost all of it has its definitive version on a live record.
Easy Money is better almost every time it was played live. The versions from the Night Watch and the Providence disc of the Great Deceiver are my favorites.
Exiles was incredible by the end of this band's run. USA and the Providence show from the Great Deceiver are incredible.
The Talking Drum/Larks 2 sequence on The Night Watch is probably my favorite live version of anything ever.
I prefer all of the live versions of "Supper's Ready" that I've heard to the studio version. Not only do they have more energy, but Tony adds some nice synth parts.
Phideaux Chupacabras. Live at Crescendo Music Festival, 2012. Far superior than the 2004 studio version.
Or from the Phideaux and Mogon promo CD available on Bandcamp
https://phideaux.bandcamp.com/album/...motional-issue
Day dawns dark...it now numbers infinity.
Deep Purple - Made In Japan
Hawkwind - Space Ritual
Pink Floyd - Live At Pompeii
King Crimson - Great Deceiver Box
All definitively better versions
Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on progrock.com
https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-a...re-happy-hour/
Gordon Haskell - "You've got to keep the groove in your head and play a load of bollocks instead"
I blame Wynton, what was the question?
There are only 10 types of people in the World, those who understand binary and those that don't.
Most of the '70's and '80's bands continued to develop their songs and ... Let's face it, there was a reason they released live albums. Of course the tracks were different and most of the times better. Yessongs, seconds out, Renaissance at Carnegie Hall, Chicago at Carnegie Hall, fillmore east, Live sky (crack the sky), coma divine, Happy the man live, And many more. We knew every notr of the originals and these variations often improved and developed them. Now live albums seem to be just a way to sell more and make more money. It's not artfully different or better. Though live shows still seem to generate more energy and make me want to attend them, especially the old guys Where it may be my last opportunity.
I seldom find live recordings more interesting than studio versions. However, some exceptions to the rule include:
Most of the tracks originally from Sparta and Yume no oka on Kenso's Zaiya Live. They manage to keep all the intricacies but present them with extra energy, a few nifty extensions and a generally punchier, less synthetic sound.
Most of Camel's Never Let Go, but especially the whole version of Dust and Dreams on the second disc is superior to the studio version.
Jean-Michel Jarre's live releases generally tend to improve on the studio originals. Destination Docklands and Hong Kong, particularly, feature many of his songs with much beefed up sound and richer instrumentation than the studio originals.
As already mentioned, "Köhntark" to me is the definitive reading of "Köhntarkösz", whereas the original studio version is... not. And "Saucerful of Secrets" and "Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun" on Ummagumma really re-imagine the studio tracks into something else.
Focus - Live At The Rainbow
Most Magma, but studio versions has their charm too.
I agree with Camel - A live record. Mel Collins ads some great saxophone to several songs.
"Summer Soldier" on Barclay James Harvest Live.
They were playing mid-sized halls at this point, mostly as support act, but from what I understand the quasi-classic double live album was recorded deliberately in front of their very own audience (at Theatre Royale/Drury Lane, London). And while a piano/synth/'tron set of keys (lacking the fat organ) was unconventional, they make it work in obvious accordance with intention. I could never really stand Lees' guitar sound, but along with the almost cartoonish coldness of the ubiquitous mellotron - standing in for their previous engagements of orchestra, I presume - it makes a whole lot of sense on this record.
The only feature here which suffers in comparison to the original versions are the ones from Everyone Is Everybody Else, which IMHO was technically their finest production overall. Especially the highly refined studio textures of "Negative Earth" leaves quite a bit to desire. Although, on the other hand, even "Mockingbird" soares above any other rendition I heard of the song. Probably just as well that they didn't venture "Moonwater" with the damn 'tron.
"Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
"[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM
I've taken some flac for this here before, but I MUCH prefer the performances of ALL the Close to the Edge songs on Yessongs to the studio album. Probably because I heard Yessongs years before hearing the studio album, and I still feel like the studio album versions just don't flow as well, and lack the energy and drive, of the Yessongs versions. Of course, I realize the sound quality difference is big for a lot of people, but it never mattered to me.
Also, I prefer everything on Kansas Two For The Show to the studio versions.
Oh yeah, pretty much every Grateful Dead song has a better live version than studio.
I think there was more of a subtlety about the studio versions with Bruford. And I liked the gentle acoustic opening of 'And You And I' more than the live intro of this era. Having said that I too enjoy Yessongs greatly. On Yesshows, I think 'Ritual' is probably definitive, although the (even longer) bass solo is undeniably somewhat showboat-y.
The BBC filmed and broadcast a few songs from the same Barclay James Harvest Drury Lane performance on the Old Grey Whistle Test, and that of the support act Rare Bird (who were not at a peak by this time, alas).
Although the first double album is their best live release, I like the slightly later Barclay James Harvest double album Live Tapes as well. The Time Honoured Ghosts tracks come across particularly well. (Although John Lees' guitar sound on a couple of songs like 'Polk Street Rag' is genuinely putrid.) And the 1972 BBC In Concert with an orchestra is a good listen too. I think it's the only live recording of them from the 70s with an orchestra, and it's often tighter than the original studio versions of these songs.
In other words, BJH were not the main act that evening. But certainly I saw the OGWT performance corresponding with the live double album, and it strikes me now how I never really emphasized Wooly W.'s exceptionally out-of-tune vocals on discovering these clips. He was never a strong singer, of course - yet here he truly demonstrates obvious inabilities. Studio recordings of "Moonwater", "Ra" and "Mockingbird" were clearly better. Precious footage nonetheless. And Mel Pritchard was at his very best in these instances. His style was perfect for them.
"Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
"[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM
They used to play the live version of Do You Feel Like We Do on AM radio?!
The studio version o fKöhntarkösz seems to never get any respect. I happen to prefer the way the studio version ends, with the descending chord progression crossfading into the Ohm chant, over the revised ending Vander came up with by the time of the live album.
I already mentioned I like the backwards instruments and the more atmospheric coda on the studio version of A Saucerful Of Secrets itself, but I was listening to that album today, and I really got into Rick Wright's vibraphone playing on Set The Controls..., reminded me how under utilized his multi-instrumentalist abilities were in Pink Floyd (besides keyboards and vibes, Rick also played trombone, as heard on Biding My Time, and I believe I read he also played guitar and saxophone).And "Saucerful of Secrets" and "Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun" on Ummagumma really re-imagine the studio tracks into something else.
Except that great big whopper of a clam Akkerman plays during Sylvia.
I know a couple of folks who saw Focus live in their prime and tell the best of them, but I have to say that I definitely prefer the studio versions of most tunes I've heard both ways. Some of them were fairly refined in sonic detail and deserved the finesse of carefully processed layerings, while in other cases I actually think the concert tapes were lacking a bit in force. Some of their jamming highlights were recorded live-in-the-studio anyways, of course - like "Anonymous Two", which I still think is a killer workout.
"Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
"[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM
http://www.hbr3.sakura.ne.jp/at40/1977.htm
Embryo is the first song I thought of upon reading the subject line for this thread! IMO, for anyone who only goes by the studio version of it, there's a Floyd song almost on the level of Echoes that they've never heard.
Even on one of those BBC concerts (the 1971 one, I think), John Peel mentions that Pink Floyd never wanted that studio version of 'Embryo' coming out in the first place. I think until a few years ago, the only Pink Floyd album (as opposed to various artists albums) it was ever on was that oddball Capitol collection, Works.
1967's Piper... is a total masterpiece, but much of Floyd's studio work from the 1968-70 period was better live IMHO. There's something tentative about the studio versions of a lot of those songs. I think they got more assured and confident in the studio environment after that, from Meddle onwards really. Having said that the live versions can still be excellent- the 'Obscured By Clouds'/'When You're In' medley has already been mentioned.
Oh ayuh. As well as full versions of "Stairway to Heaven", "American Pie", and other songs that didn't fit neatly onto one side of a 45.
Cobra handling and cocaine use are a bad mix.
Box Of Rain, Ripple, Attics Of My Life and Brokedown Palace never sounded as good onstage as they did on American Beauty.
American Pie I could see, being that's it's...well, it's not excatly what I'd call "rock n roll". But I had the impression that AM radio was mostly top 40, while all the "album oriented" rock stuff was confined to FM radio. But what do I know? By the time I was listening to the radio, AM mostly talk radio, big band (and other ancient musical stylings) and religion.
I believe everything on Curved Air Live is vastly superior to the corresponding studio versions. I love the raw energy and power of the album and really wonder if someday an expanded version with the full concert will ever be released.
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