Arc Of Life, new band featuring Davison, Schellen, Sherwood, Kerzner and Haun

[battema]

One of my friends runs a (IMHO pretty darn successful) label, and we talk from time to time about what they do/don't want from any potential artist, as well as what might be offered to prospective artists. So, perhaps those conversations have shaped my own perceptions of what I might ask in the opposite direction, as an artist entertaining a label.

If it came across otherwise, let me just say that especially on the "scene" I have a lot of respect for our little pool of labels. It's just this specific case that in all truth had me scratching my head, that's all.

But, this is probably too much tangential conversation as is and no one likes a wet towel in a thread for too long Thank you for entertaining my wordy-assed inquiries, and I sincerely wish the band lots of success for everyone involved.

[Top Cat]

Thanks. The 15% off should work then too although I don't think they're doing another one until February.

The 4 CD bundle has some nice stuff in it and the price is actually not that bad for what it is. Live albums are as much work as studio albums but sell a lot less for one thing. But, when you break it down per CD it's less than they'd sell for individually etc. Plus there's some bonus swag involved too. You'll see!

For anyone interested, I received an email from Bandcamp with a link providing the dates for Bandcamp Fridays 2021.
https://daily.bandcamp.com/features/...p-fridays-2021

[Squids]

One of my friends runs a (IMHO pretty darn successful) label, and we talk from time to time about what they do/don't want from any potential artist, as well as what might be offered to prospective artists. So, perhaps those conversations have shaped my own perceptions of what I might ask in the opposite direction, as an artist entertaining a label.

If it came across otherwise, let me just say that especially on the "scene" I have a lot of respect for our little pool of labels. It's just this specific case that in all truth had me scratching my head, that's all.

But, this is probably too much tangential conversation as is and no one likes a wet towel in a thread for too long Thank you for entertaining my wordy-assed inquiries, and I sincerely wish the band lots of success for everyone involved.

Yeah and no knock to Indy Prog labels either. Quite frankly we're lucky they care enough to go for niche genres as opposed to more popular current styles. However, speaking generalities here, the larger a label is and the more artists and releases they have then theoretically the less dedicated time per band/artist there is vs. a smaller label or artist's own label focusing on that one thing and less opinions in the mix as well (theoretically).

But, I agree we don't need to get into it more than that! Haha. The music industry is always an interesting good conversation to have, especially these days where it needs some help (like reform when it comes to how streaming services are used, especially for niche genres where the amount of streams doesn't amount to enough money for anyone). But, it's going off topic. You simply said essentially that the way it was hyped doesn't match up to what it sounds like it is. Fair enough. Of course, at the end of the day, fans of Circa, Billy Sherwood and certain fans of Yes will eat this up more or less and others won't and that's ok. The chips fall where they fall! I'm curious to see how it all shakes out. I do wish the album well so that band can take off and soar but... that's not up to me!

[aith01]

I'll chime in with a "Hear, hear!" and add that throughout his entire time of involvement with this board, Squids comes off as one of the genuinely nice guys in this genre that we love. I hope none of the criticism cuts deep, and I hope that Dave wouldn't feel the need to withdraw. He's a real asset to PE.

[aith01]

Attachment 14645

All I can say is, when you unbelievers open the lid, you'll get what you deserve!

Attachment 14646

Some of you be like....

"A fresh excuse to break out the whip! YAY!"

Ever notice how these same gripes pop up every time Billy does anything new? It's like the prog contingent is butthurt he didn't deliver a tried and true PROG OPUS and is bummed he wrote something more pop. Why are they looking to Billy for that anyway? Even Yes, the band he is in, does not always go there.

Don't you get it by now? That's his forte. Want that prog opus? Go play that new Wobbler or something.... You aren't getting it from Billy and are silly to look to him for it and to treat him like shit because it didn't happen. Just saying. I see a pattern here over the years.

A pattern, yes. I agree with you. Billy can't seem to do anything right when it comes to some people, and he seems like a decent enough person who works hard at making music because he wants to. I don't love a lot of his music, but some of it I enjoy for what it is. He doesn't deserve the treatment he has gotten over the years, IMO.

[Interstellar]

A few random thoughts about this discussion :
- We all know we have to look beyond a single to have a real taste of the music. There was a thread on PE in recent weeks about singles that don't tell the whole story and, as a Pink Floyd fan, I'm more than inclined to give any artist several chances of getting into his/her musical universe.
- On the other hand, there is so much music on offer these days that the first impression may still play a part in wanting to discover more, because there's a limited amount of time.
- I wish Arc Of Life the best and will listen to more of their music given the opportunity, even if the first song didn't grab me.
- I wish Mr Kerzner the best and it's a good thing to have those honest and passionate views from artists on a discussion forum. I don't take it for granted.

[Squids]

Billy can't seem to do anything right when it comes to some people, and he seems like a decent enough person who works hard at making music because he wants to. I don't love a lot of his music, but some of it I enjoy for what it is. He doesn't deserve the treatment he has gotten over the years, IMO.

All musicians deserve criticism for their work if it's founded on something constructive at least. But, yeah, people often go a bit too far and personal in his case. You're in risky territory when you're in a band with such a legacy as Yes. A lot of amazing musicians and music to be compared to. It can't be easy! People tend to be hard to please to begin with but when you add up certain things that people complain about it's like a typhoon sometimes and at the end of the day you're right. Give the guy a break. He does have a lot of talent or he wouldn't be working with all the top musicians in this genre. That doesn't mean every song he does is one you'll like or how he produces or processes a vocal or sings or whatever it may be. We all have our tastes of what we like and don't like. The problem I think is when people aren't nice in how they express their opinions. I see threads on Facebook where they rip on him and then he actually responds (usually with some gif of someone rolling their eyes) and people suddenly realize "Wait this is a real human? Was I being rude? Whoops. I'm sorry Billy!!!!". You know? He's just a man trying to make his way in the Universe. (A little Star Wars quote for Billy! haha).

[Top Cat]

The first time I listened to the World Trade album, I became a Billy Sherwood fan.
Followed that with the Conspiracy album he did with Chris Squire.
When I heard him on some of the Yes albums, I was so happy for him(Billy was obviously a big Yes fan), that he got to work with his favorite band.
I don't buy everything Billy, some of the side projects he's done, I didn't connect with.
My favorite is the debut Circa album with Alan W, Tony Kaye and Jimmy Haun, and as I've mentioned before, the DVD show included, in spite of having some video issues is a joy to see this man play and sing, and I wished I'd had a chance to see that lineup live.

Even a group like Asia(original lineup), a group of superstars, took, and still do, take a hit from the prog community for it's more commercial sounding music.
I love it, and I guess you could say, Arc is sort of that with it's lineup and the music side being a bit not proggy.

I love prog music, but I also love other genres as well, whatever sounds good, even something like the Blue Nile for example, which isn't proggy to me, but damn good music.
As Paulrus wrote earlier, if it's good music, I think a lot of people here enjoy different genres.

I can't believe this thread has lasted this long.
I guess it puts it in Genesis and Yes territory.

[yodathedog]

I don’t know if it’s been mentioned yet, but Billy’s all over the new Days Between Stations album - producing, writing, playing, singing. It’s very good, but a departure from their previous albums.

[aith01]

The problem I think is when people aren't nice in how they express their opinions. I see threads on Facebook where they rip on him and then he actually responds (usually with some gif of someone rolling their eyes) and people suddenly realize "Wait this is a real human? Was I being rude? Whoops. I'm sorry Billy!!!!". You know? He's just a man trying to make his way in the Universe. (A little Star Wars quote for Billy! haha).

This is a great point. There are real human beings on the receiving end of those comments, and they have feelings too. Sometimes we need to be reminded of that.

[fiberman]

Squids is the best!

[Sean]

Is there any other place on the Net where people take the time to really explain WHY something just might not click with them? Kudos for taking the time and even wondering if maybe it's being marketed to the wrong audience. Rather than just saying..... Well, you know.

[luvyesmusic]

Is there any other place on the Net where people take the time to really explain WHY something just might not click with them? Kudos for taking the time and even wondering if maybe it's being marketed to the wrong audience. Rather than just saying..... Well, you know.

Well, ironically, there use to be a place called yesfans.com I use to go to, and many of the same folks there/here would take the time to post their expertise and dislike of all things YES on both sites in a loving, knowledgeable way, naturally of course. It's something for sure when intelligent folks and once fans of a really old band have nothing better to do than bash anything related to YES in duplicate. You would think after some folks let it be clear after twenty-five times or more of posts of disdain for a group they once use to like, we would all know their positions and thoughts by now. Wouldn't we? Even before Covid has trapped some folks inside more than normal ;-)

It's tough to be a working musician to make a buck, but even less enjoyable when everybody is an expert on one of the few prog sites left.

Looking forward to seeing a variety of live music in the future. Hopefully sooner than later.

[bondegezou]

Is there any other place on the Net where people take the time to really explain WHY something just might not click with them? Kudos for taking the time and even wondering if maybe it's being marketed to the wrong audience. Rather than just saying..... Well, you know.

I think it's very difficult sometimes to identify why we don't (or do) like something. I know what I like; I don't know why I like it. I think we need to respect negative reviews even when they don't give a reason. (Indeed, I think people sometimes hunt around for a reason and give something that sounds plausible, but isn't actually the real reason.)

Which is why I reject the notion that people should leave "constructive criticism". Sure, constructive criticism is useful. But a review needs only a hedonic response. I note musicians never reject positive reviews that don't give reasons! "Sorry, mate, you said you liked my song, but not why, so I'm not going to listen to you!" Reviewers should be polite, but that's a different consideration.

Henry

[Squids]

Which is why I reject the notion that people should leave "constructive criticism". Sure, constructive criticism is useful. But a review needs only a hedonic response. I note musicians never reject positive reviews that don't give reasons! "Sorry, mate, you said you liked my song, but not why, so I'm not going to listen to you!" Reviewers should be polite, but that's a different consideration.

Henry

A wise musician friend of mine with much more experience once told me something valuable and that's not to find either negative or positive reviews to be important. He said don't believe it when they say you're great and don't believe it when they say you suck. I'm not saying I'm at that level yet but I do think about it. These days everyone's a music critic and they've got a platform to voice their opinions. There are simply too many sometimes! And at the end of the day, each person can decide if they're going to give something their time and an open mind or not.

One thing I have learned, though, is that no matter how great you think your song is you can't please everyone. There will always be those who will not only criticize but also complain or go further into bashing territory... possibly because they're bored and/or it's a form of venting their frustrations or something like that. This is why at the very least everyone should take each other's opinions with a grain of salt. Always best to decide for one's self.

Now, since I do care about reviews and reactions to songs (particularly if it's a song I wrote or sang), I like to hear why whether it's negative or positive. In fact, I like to hear that in reviews of anything so... not sure that part is really correct. Maybe it's that way for you but not necessarily the same for others. It isn't for me.

[Conti]

^Neil Peart once said that he never read album reviews because if he ever had to believe the good ones, then he had to believe the bad ones too.

Regarding the Arc of Life single, it does nothing for me, sadly.

[Rarebird]

I tend to take reviews with a grain of salt. Constructive I might take a bit more serious, but it also depends on who is critisising.
I once knew a music teacher, who was very positive on my music, and since others took his comments as a recommandation, his positive words had more effect on me.

[bondegezou]

Now, since I do care about reviews and reactions to songs (particularly if it's a song I wrote or sang), I like to hear why whether it's negative or positive. In fact, I like to hear that in reviews of anything so... not sure that part is really correct. Maybe it's that way for you but not necessarily the same for others. It isn't for me.

I absolutely like it when a review (+ve or -ve) can give a why. But just because a reviewer cannot or hasn't given a why, doesn't make their opinion less valid. If you're selling records, the $15 from the person who can write an informative review is worth just as much as the $15 from the person who can't articulate why they liked/didn't like it.

More generally, sure, take all opinions with a grain of salt! (Except mine. I'm always right and everyone should listen to me.)

Henry

[Top Cat]

I pay absolutely zero attention to reviews for albums and movies.I normally don't take time to read them.
If I know of a new release from a group or artist I'm familiar with, I listen to samples and decide from that, or by the history I have with the artist. If they are new to me, again, I listen to samples and make up my own mind.

Music is subjective and just because someone is either paid or does it for other reasons, it's still just their opinion.
When I used to read reviews for movies or music, when I would see the movie or buy an album, enough times there would be a gap between their review and my own opinion.
But the only reason I read reviews back then, was it was a time when we didn't have samples or YT video to listen to .
Today we have the opportunity to listen to bandcamp, video trailers, and Youtube releases of songs, and the best review to me is my own.

[rdclark]

It doesn't mean much when someone doesn't like your work, although it may be useful to find out why. There are always people who don't like a thing.

Positive reviews are more useful, because it's important to know there's an audience for your work, of whatever size. Support from critics with some standing -- proven expertise and credentials -- can mean a great deal to an artist who is balancing on the edge, as so many are.

Once a career is established and in progress, I think things change. You know you have viable talent and ability, and your vision has proved achievable. Meanwhile, criticism becomes subject to tribalism and fan politics, to fashion and social imaging. Better to ignore the critics; who knows what their agendas really are?

[moecurlythanu]

There will always be those who will not only criticize but also complain or go further into bashing territory... possibly because they're bored and/or it's a form of venting their frustrations or something like that. This is why at the very least everyone should take each other's opinions with a grain of salt. Always best to decide for one's self.

Squids, there's another factor in this case which can't be overlooked: AoL is Yes-related. Let me repeat that...Arc Of Life is Yes-related. Some people are not going to like my saying it, but it has been my observation that there is a mania surrounding all things connected to Yes fandom. Since I came online around 1999, there has been a "hair on fire" psychology on display regarding just about everything the band does or doesn't do. It permeates all discussion about the band or it's offshoots, and it's like a fog that is always there. There's a reason Yes threads have a unique reputation on this site. People are so invested, so emotionally involved. It's like teenage girls squealing over the latest boy band, but now it's 50-60 year old guys! I've never seen anything like it. Maybe it's widespread with other bands, and I just don't visit the right sites to see it, but...I don't know. It freaks me out. (Hence the avatar.) Anyway, take that into account and it will do wonders for your perspective.

[happytheman]

A wise musician friend of mine with much more experience once told me something valuable and that's not to find either negative or positive reviews to be important. He said don't believe it when they say you're great and don't believe it when they say you suck. I'm not saying I'm at that level yet but I do think about it. These days everyone's a music critic and they've got a platform to voice their opinions. There are simply too many sometimes! And at the end of the day, each person can decide if they're going to give something their time and an open mind or not.

One thing I have learned, though, is that no matter how great you think your song is you can't please everyone. There will always be those who will not only criticize but also complain or go further into bashing territory... possibly because they're bored and/or it's a form of venting their frustrations or something like that. This is why at the very least everyone should take each other's opinions with a grain of salt. Always best to decide for one's self.

Now, since I do care about reviews and reactions to songs (particularly if it's a song I wrote or sang), I like to hear why whether it's negative or positive. In fact, I like to hear that in reviews of anything so... not sure that part is really correct. Maybe it's that way for you but not necessarily the same for others. It isn't for me.

My Dad shared similar wisdom with me at a young age.. "When they go over the top to recognize you/praise you just remember you're not that good.. and likewise when they criticize you and fault you, you're not that bad.."
When it's all said and done an artist is writing etc. first to please themselves (as it should be) and if others enjoy it as well it's a bonus..

[rdclark]

Tribalism. It is the new/old paradigm that is redefining our society, and music fandom is not immune or even new to it. Music fandom may indeed be one of its incubators.

As I mentioned in the my above, it's one reason I meet all music criticism with skepticism these days and, indeed, as @moecurlythanu points out, it is no more clearly delineated than it is in relation to Yes. Or possibly Neal Morse.

[Splicer]

I'm not a musician, I'm a music listener. If I like something and someone else doesn't - even if they go off on it like they're talking about a wet pile of sh*t - it's not my problem. I'm not going to stop listening to it. Maybe I'll engage with the other person for laughs or if I'm feeling feisty, but in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter. Like I said, I'm not an artist, so how they feel about criticism is not my problem either. I assume they either ignore it or let it get to them somehow. Either/or.

[Top Cat]

Hope no one minds a brief musical interlude featuring Billy Sherwood.