Arc Of Life, new band featuring Davison, Schellen, Sherwood, Kerzner and Haun

[Top Cat]

Well, Arc of Life is him doing his own material and not having to sound like Jon A. And he has sung as a band member or guest on a variety of projects without having to sound like Jon A. I'd recommend his appearance with The Samurai of Prog on Lost and Found and his work with Squids in In Continuum, for example.

Hi Henry, yes I'm familiar with his work outside Yes, I have In Continuum and Lost and Found.
I guess since his voice is a bit similar to Jon's voice, there will always be that reference point, even when he's doing himself.

A

[Top Cat]

Shrug. Some people are happiest being creative in a group setting. It's not a requirement that every band have members that are also solo artists.

Yes did it because Yes is a band with a considerable amount of ego spread across any given lineup. And folks like Wakeman who already had a solo career before he joined.

I kind of disagree with you on this one John.
In a group setting with a band as big as Yes, each member is always compromising, and used to sacrificing some of their input material for the overall finished song.
Jon is a songwriter, and there may be songs he's contributed that he wrote that would fit the Yes style, and others that are overlooked because they aren't.
As a singer/songwriter I would think Jon D, would want at some time to be able to fully express his creativity without the massive shadow of Yes dictating what that should be or sound like.
I think it's only human nature if you're a creative person, and while Yes, like the Beatles, had so much talent and creativity in the bands, solo work was bound to burst out.
My 2cents....lol

[battema]

I kind of disagree with you on this one John.
In a group setting with a band as big as Yes, each member is always compromising, and used to sacrificing some of their input material for the overall finished song.
Jon is a songwriter, and there may be songs he's contributed that he wrote that would fit the Yes style, and others that are overlooked because they aren't.
As a singer/songwriter I would think Jon D, would want at some time to be able to fully express his creativity without the massive shadow of Yes dictating what that should be or sound like.
I think it's only human nature if you're a creative person, and while Yes, like the Beatles, had so much talent and creativity in the bands, solo work was bound to burst out.
My 2cents....lol

Sure...which is kind of what we get with Arc of Life though. Plus he isn't shy about working with other bands. If the interest was there in doing something under HIS name and not a different group, certainly he has a considerable pool of talent from which to draw for any theoretical album.

So maybe he's got enough creative outlets already. Maybe he's saving things up.

It's just kind of speculation to be honest. My response was simply to the idea that something was "wrong" or "weird" because he hasn't already done one. As if it was a foregone conclusion that he WOULD make one.

[Top Cat]

So maybe he's got enough creative outlets already. Maybe he's saving things up.

It's just kind of speculation to be honest. My response was simply to the idea that something was "wrong" or "weird" because he hasn't already done one. As if it was a foregone conclusion that he WOULD make one.

I agree, wrong ,weird or expected, is not how I would express it.
But it did make me think for a minute, since we're hearing more and more about him writing with Steve and Billy.
I like to think he's saving em up! lol

[Garyhead]

That brings up the question: why is it that Jon Davison has not released his first solo album?

Maybe he needs to collaborate “with that Swedish Guy?”

[Progatron]

Maybe he needs to collaborate “with that Swedish Guy?”

Maybe he'll finish Zamran.

[Aquatarkus]

Yes and no.

Sherwood, like all musicians, has a distinctive style, as a composer, as a producer, as a lyricist, as a bass player. On projects that he leads, that all comes together to produce a sound, which you can hear on the first Arc of Life album. You can hear the same on his solo albums, the Prog Collective, much of CIRCA:, the second Conspiracy album, Open Your Eyes, Yoso, Missing in Action (by Missing Persons feat. Dale Bozzio) and so on.

I think there's 2 issues here that make people more sensitive to a certain sameness. He's hard-working and prolific, so he's making a lot of albums. If an artist is releasing a solo album every 5 years, you're not going to be bothered if they sound similar, but Billy's had as many as three (effectively) solo albums in the same calendar year. This does rather produce a reaction of do I need all this? I had to add "(effectively)" to the previous sentence, because the other thing is that there are a lot of different project names, yet all largely produced, written and often performed by Sherwood. If he just released loads of solo albums, that would be one thing, but when there are all these projects, marketed differently, but then they sound the same as each other, it seems to only emphasise the sameness. Of course, if you love his work, there isn't a problem here, just more to enjoy! I love some of his work, but I do sometimes feel that a focus on quality over quantity might be beneficial.

That all said, while there are similarities over a lot of his work, it doesn't all sound identical. There are some projects that are 'poppier' (Missing in Action, the first half of Arc of Life, Yoso), others that are 'proggier' (the first half of Worlds on Hold, Valley of the Windmill). While he often works with the same crowd, there are differences between, say, CIRCA: with Tony Kaye and Conspiracy with Chris Squire. I think also some projects are just better, and some weaker. For me, Oneirology and Citizen are uninspired, but his creative juices were flowing on Worlds on Hold.

There are projects where Sherwood was very much in control of everything and others which were more collaborative. I think, like many musicians, Sherwood is often at his best in collaboration or with an outside producer. I much prefer the two Sherwood/Davison-written tracks on The Quest to the Sherwood/Davison-written Arc of Life. I enjoy CIRCA: 2007, with Kaye, White, Haun and using some old writing Sherwood had done with Rabin. The album called Conspiracy with Squire stands out, I think because that's more a collaboration, while the follow-up, The Unknown, sounds like a Sherwood album with special guest Chris Squire. Sherwood's earliest albums are more full band projects, and also his singing voice was better (he's talked about the problems he had from singing too much early in his career): I'd recommend those first two World Trade releases. There's a good album by Marcelo Paganini called Identity Crisis (2020) on which Sherwood sings lead vocals, but he wasn't writing or producing, and Billy's voice sounds great. I don't know why he produces his own voice the way he does.

So, yes and no, Sherwood is very prolific and a lot of his work sounds like Arc of Life, but there is some variation within his corpus of work, and he can sound rather different in the context of collaboration. If you want a pre-2015 recommendation, you could go back to World Trade's second album, Euphoria (1995).

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond in such a thorough manner. I really appreciate it and look forward to some new listening!

[Aquatarkus]

Couple of thoughts in response. First, the two people singing on both albums are only Jon Davison and Billy Sherwood. Although, for the first time Billy played in my solo band (for more than just a tune or two guesting) and after that experience he said he wanted me to also sing on the third Arc of Life album where we'll all write together as a band. That was actually the initial plan for the second Arc album, but, thanks to Covid we weren't able to all get together so easily in the last 2 years.

Fortunately, Billy and Jon had written a lot of material while on tour with Yes and it was enough for two albums. This is also probably why they have a cohesive connection to each other stylistically besides the fact that it is a band led by, mixed by and produced by Billy. So, yeah, in many ways it comes down to whether you're of the camp who likes Open Your Eyes, Conspiracy, Circa, Prog Collective and Billy's albums or not (more or less). That said, I'd listen with an open mind because this has longer proggier tunes than the previous Arc of Life album and you may find you like it! It's new so you never know until you've had a chance to hear the whole thing.

As for Henry's comment, thanks. I do appreciate that you like every music project/album I'm involved in. With Arc of Life, so far I've really had the least amount of creative input of any band or project I've been in. It was a band I was added to because we're all friends and they needed a keyboard player. I can't wait to play live with these guys because we have some interesting fun surprises for the live show. I look forward to a time when I can write with them as well! But, if I've learned anything after being at this for decades it's to just make sure you have outlets for your creativity where you don't depend on anyone else and thankfully I have that! So, as long as I can keep on making my solo albums and write or produce other projects then I'm fine, happy and content to be honest. Don't get me wrong, it WOULD be fun to bring more of my writing or production ideas into the fold with Arc! But, it just doesn't HAVE to happen... just like SOC doesn't have to happen (took my awhile to give up on the possibility of a reunion ever happening) or a bunch of other opportunities that came close to happening (some big ones too). I'm happy in my little Squids' cave studio doing my thing.

That said, the second CD of The Traveler Special Edition is almost done and there's some good stuff I did with both Billy and Jon on that as well! It's cool they like to contribute to my albums and I'm happy to do the same for them!

I can be a little slow on the uptake as I didn't realize until yesterday squids was Dave Kerzner. I appreciate the insights on offer here very much. I love some of your work. The Traveler is fantastic! I'd love to hear more of your involvement with Jon and Billy on Arc 3. Cheers.

[Aquatarkus]

I agree with much of what you've written, except you have to admit, any Yes or Yes related thread seems to get pretty heated up, beyond just expressing dislikes, to the point where moderators have threatened to close a thread.
And some of the things written about Billy are pretty harsh, but I understand people expressing themselves and having every right to do so on this forum.

When I publicly criticize an aspect of music, as in vocal work or production, I try to always separate my comments in such a way as to make it known that I'm being critical of an aspect of music or music making, not the human behind the creation. I also try to say something nice at the same time haha, such as this guy has great talent with the strings, but I find this aspect not to my liking. I can be given to hyperbole as another user pointed out. My apologies if I come across as too critical at times.

[aith01]

When I publicly criticize an aspect of music, as in vocal work or production, I try to always separate my comments in such a way as to make it known that I'm being critical of an aspect of music or music making, not the human behind the creation. I also try to say something nice at the same time haha, such as this guy has great talent with the strings, but I find this aspect not to my liking. I can be given to hyperbole as another user pointed out. My apologies if I come across as too critical at times.

It's all good, man.

And my comment about hyperbole, while in response to you, was more a result of what Frumious said earlier. He's prone to making hyperbolic statements anytime Yes or Yes-adjacent stuff is involved.

[moecurlythanu]

He's prone to making hyperbolic statements anytime Yes or Yes-adjacent stuff is involved.

Yes-adjacent? You mean, like, sacred texts or holy writ or something?

[Aquatarkus]

Sherwood's earliest albums are more full band projects, and also his singing voice was better (he's talked about the problems he had from singing too much early in his career): I'd recommend those first two World Trade releases. There's a good album by Marcelo Paganini called Identity Crisis (2020) on which Sherwood sings lead vocals, but he wasn't writing or producing, and Billy's voice sounds great. I don't know why he produces his own voice the way he does.

Wow! I listened to Marcelo Paganini's Identity Crises today and Billy's voice really does sound nice. It's a great fit for the record.

[bondegezou]

iTunes has 30 second samples of all the songs, and they mostly sound better than the lead single, so thumbs up from me. I recall Frontiers picked a poor lead single for the first album.

[Squids]

I think Dave, a.k.a. Squids is well aware of both his own talents and how they are perceived by fans on forums such as this one and has developed the requisite thick skin that well-known working musicians need. Not everyone is going to like the music that you create or are associated with in one way or another, and some folks are keen to express their dislikes. In this thread, these don't target Squids directly, but yeah, it's probably not easy to read all of the things that are said here about the folks you interact with musically on a regular basis.

At any rate, it's great to see him posting here and providing his fascinating insights into the creative process behind all of the work he has been involved in as of late. Let's hope he is able to keep it up.

P.S. I miss the "Squids Stories" from back in the day. Dave, please feel free to share more when you've got the time!

Thanks. Yes that's more or less true except that I can't really keep up fully (haven't read all the comments in this thread tbh) and I suppose I'm more sensitive to any sort of negative comments (albeit rare knock on wood) about my own songwriting/production/playing/singing than, say, a band like Arc of Life where I'm just the keyboard player and not contributing my usual range of creative offerings. By the same token, I can't take too much credit when anyone likes a band or project I have less creative involvement with than I would say on the band/projects I lead. Buuuuuut, yes Squids have thick skin and even if there were any negative comments aimed at me I can more or less take it with a grain of sea salt. Haha.

I mean, a lot of times it's a similar thing where you can't please everyone and each person has their own tastes. Those who loved Sound of Contact and In Continuum might like my new album "The Traveler" better than say "Static" which was darker and more cynical... yet those who like Kevin Gilbert, especially from my time with him such as Thud Live and The Giraffe-Lamb we did, could prefer "Static"... and some (hopefully most) like it all but perhaps lean toward one (such as what Henry said about The Traveler being his favorite). I can imagine some hardcore Proggers could find my music too poppy-crossoverish and I could understand that. I try not to go TOO far into the "Pop-Cheese" territory that some old prog bands have done (Genesis "In Too Deep" vs. "Supper's Ready" comes to mind! haha). It's all about balance for me.

Although, at some point I may do an album that's just pure muso-Prog with no Pop-crossover... not to please anyone else, though, but myself because I love it all. When we toured in the UK last and had former members of Gentle Giant come out to the show (like Kerry and Malcolm) I admit I felt in that moment I wished we had more complex proggier stuff to perform. I thought amazing music geniuses like them would be perhaps bored with what we were doing, but, afterwards it turned out that they were impressed with the songwriting and passionate performances. Maybe they'd have liked that more than us trying to be anywhere near as clever as they were and failing.

I remember Kevin Gilbert telling me something to that effect when I was doing my Wurly solo on his song "Joytown" in rehearsals. I was getting fancy with it (adding fast Jazzy licks) and he said bluntly "look there are tons of guys who can do that sort of shredding thing better than both of us but what you can do that not everyone can is give it your particular swirly vibe with that wormy sound you've got going". So, when he said that I just laid back and improvised whatever I was feeling in the moment without any concern over how impressive it was. A good lesson in my 20's to go with what your strengths are and, most importantly, what feels right for the song. But, that said, it's good to push the envelope and experiment as well such as with odd time signatures and more complex arrangements and playing. I'm all for it as long as it comes out as authentic and enjoyable as the things I'm already known for which is more along the lines of what Kevin was doing which is Prog-infused alt rock/pop or Alt-rock-infused Prog (depending on the tune).

Btw if you miss "Squids Stories" I guess that could count as one! Haha.

[Koreabruce]

Thanks for the in-depth reply, Dave! (and yes, that definitely counts as a bonafide "Squids Story"!)

[mkeneally]

I always love reading whatever you feel inclined to write about, Sqiidster :-)

[Aquatarkus]

Thanks. Yes that's more or less true except that I can't really keep up fully (haven't read all the comments in this thread tbh) and I suppose I'm more sensitive to any sort of negative comments (albeit rare knock on wood) about my own songwriting/production/playing/singing than, say, a band like Arc of Life where I'm just the keyboard player and not contributing my usual range of creative offerings. By the same token, I can't take too much credit when anyone likes a band or project I have less creative involvement with than I would say on the band/projects I lead. Buuuuuut, yes Squids have thick skin and even if there were any negative comments aimed at me I can more or less take it with a grain of sea salt. Haha.

I mean, a lot of times it's a similar thing where you can't please everyone and each person has their own tastes. Those who loved Sound of Contact and In Continuum might like my new album "The Traveler" better than say "Static" which was darker and more cynical... yet those who like Kevin Gilbert, especially from my time with him such as Thud Live and The Giraffe-Lamb we did, could prefer "Static"... and some (hopefully most) like it all but perhaps lean toward one (such as what Henry said about The Traveler being his favorite). I can imagine some hardcore Proggers could find my music too poppy-crossoverish and I could understand that. I try not to go TOO far into the "Pop-Cheese" territory that some old prog bands have done (Genesis "In Too Deep" vs. "Supper's Ready" comes to mind! haha). It's all about balance for me.

Although, at some point I may do an album that's just pure muso-Prog with no Pop-crossover... not to please anyone else, though, but myself because I love it all. When we toured in the UK last and had former members of Gentle Giant come out to the show (like Kerry and Malcolm) I admit I felt in that moment I wished we had more complex proggier stuff to perform. I thought amazing music geniuses like them would be perhaps bored with what we were doing, but, afterwards it turned out that they were impressed with the songwriting and passionate performances. Maybe they'd have liked that more than us trying to be anywhere near as clever as they were and failing.

I remember Kevin Gilbert telling me something to that effect when I was doing my Wurly solo on his song "Joytown" in rehearsals. I was getting fancy with it (adding fast Jazzy licks) and he said bluntly "look there are tons of guys who can do that sort of shredding thing better than both of us but what you can do that not everyone can is give it your particular swirly vibe with that wormy sound you've got going". So, when he said that I just laid back and improvised whatever I was feeling in the moment without any concern over how impressive it was. A good lesson in my 20's to go with what your strengths are and, most importantly, what feels right for the song. But, that said, it's good to push the envelope and experiment as well such as with odd time signatures and more complex arrangements and playing. I'm all for it as long as it comes out as authentic and enjoyable as the things I'm already known for which is more along the lines of what Kevin was doing which is Prog-infused alt rock/pop or Alt-rock-infused Prog (depending on the tune).

Btw if you miss "Squids Stories" I guess that could count as one! Haha.

The Traveler is amazing Dave. I've been spinning it a lot of late. Your voice is excellent, a blending of Dave Gilmour and thirtysomething Peter Gabriel. The tone really fits the lovely music you have crafted. I would love to hear your vocals on the Arc of Life project you have more input on in the future as well as future releases that are mostly or all you behind the creative controls.

[Squids]

The Traveler is amazing Dave. I've been spinning it a lot of late. Your voice is excellent, a blending of Dave Gilmour and thirtysomething Peter Gabriel. The tone really fits the lovely music you have crafted. I would love to hear your vocals on the Arc of Life project you have more input on in the future as well as future releases that are mostly or all you behind the creative controls.

30 something Peter Gabriel? I'll take it! 30 something ANYTHING I'll take. haha. Thank you. Glad you like it.

When Billy was playing with my solo band he was really getting into me singing and did say we have to get me singing on the next Arc of Life album with them. So, hopefully it'll happen but if it doesn't then it's ok. I'm neutral about it. One of the best things any music artist can do is have some creative outlets that they do control so they can be part of other bands and projects and not really need anything from them creatively because they have these other outlets. Without that I could see someone being very frustrated. For example, if Genesis had allowed Steve Hackett to make solo albums and they started making them too all at the same time then maybe they could have stayed together. Maybe even with Gabriel as well. Although, with solo success an artist can be tempted to leave a band behind which is the risk there. It all depends on how much you love working with the band. I can tell you that I would have loved to make 10 Sound of Contact albums with those guys while still having a solo career no matter how successful it ever got. But, it couldn't happen for other reasons (not to get into the details) and I'm just thankful I immediately recognized that a year after the album came out and got started on my solo creative outlet. If I hadn't done that I think I would have been pretty depressed at the inability for the band to do a follow up. I felt at the time that if we couldn't do it as a band I could just do my own follow up as a solo artist and even though I loved playing with those guys the trade off is I could get Nick D'Virgilio and Fernando Perdomo as well as others (including Steve Hackett) to play IF they're available (and if not I can get someone else so the show goes on no matter what).

But, anyway, as far as me singing or behind the mixing console or being heavily involved creatively in writing and production with Billy, Jon and anyone from Yes, I think the most likely chance of that happening is in other projects where I reach out to them for their participation in something I'm doing. They're happy to do that (and they did on The Traveler for example). Arc of Life is led by Billy so unless he asks me to do any of those things I don't have any ambitious plan to try to take the reins in those areas. I'm just at his service as a friend and bandmate to do whatever. Tour, write together as a band or not, help him with his software/sound rig etc. It's good to have a defined leader of a band otherwise you can have "too many cooks in the kitchen".

[Squids]

I always love reading whatever you feel inclined to write about, Sqiidster :-)

Thanks Mike! Nice of you to say. All the best to you my friend!

[bondegezou]

When Billy was playing with my solo band he was really getting into me singing and did say we have to get me singing on the next Arc of Life album with them. So, hopefully it'll happen but if it doesn't then it's ok. I'm neutral about it. One of the best things any music artist can do is have some creative outlets that they do control so they can be part of other bands and projects and not really need anything from them creatively because they have these other outlets. Without that I could see someone being very frustrated. For example, if Genesis had allowed Steve Hackett to make solo albums and they started making them too all at the same time then maybe they could have stayed together. Maybe even with Gabriel as well. Although, with solo success an artist can be tempted to leave a band behind which is the risk there. It all depends on how much you love working with the band. I can tell you that I would have loved to make 10 Sound of Contact albums with those guys while still having a solo career no matter how successful it ever got. But, it couldn't happen for other reasons (not to get into the details) and I'm just thankful I immediately recognized that a year after the album came out and got started on my solo creative outlet.

It's always interesting to hear you talk about the process from the inside. I'm not a musician, but I work in a collaborative field. I appreciate the value of a good collaboration and I appreciate the value of something I lead myself, and indeed the value of something where someone else does the heavy lifting and all the worrying while I have a nice, small, defined role.

As a listener, I value bands. I think there's something special about people working together that brings different things out of them compared to solo work. Bands can be more than the sum of their parts. But I also recognise that it's very unusual for any band to be an equal collaboration of 5 or however many people. Bands have internal dynamics. That's also what makes them fascinating. (I love the history of Yes or Henry Cow, not just because I love the music, but because you have this swirling mess of changing relationships.)

I have come to believe in the value of having some sort of vision for an album, rather than an album just being the next ~8 songs someone writes. Even within groups, it seems to work well if one or two band members provide that guiding vision, as Anderson or Anderson/Howe often did in '70s Yes, as Fripp did in most Crimson. A colleague today tweeted, "Something I've never learned in leadership course is how much *energy* you need as a leader to keep people engaged with your vision". I wonder if that also applies in bands? You hear of people leaving bands because they were frustrated in terms of making their ideas happen, as with Hackett from Genesis. But I wonder about when the guy "at the top" gets fed up with having to pull everyone along?

[Squids]

It's always interesting to hear you talk about the process from the inside. I'm not a musician, but I work in a collaborative field. I appreciate the value of a good collaboration and I appreciate the value of something I lead myself, and indeed the value of something where someone else does the heavy lifting and all the worrying while I have a nice, small, defined role.

As a listener, I value bands. I think there's something special about people working together that brings different things out of them compared to solo work. Bands can be more than the sum of their parts. But I also recognise that it's very unusual for any band to be an equal collaboration of 5 or however many people. Bands have internal dynamics. That's also what makes them fascinating. (I love the history of Yes or Henry Cow, not just because I love the music, but because you have this swirling mess of changing relationships.)

I have come to believe in the value of having some sort of vision for an album, rather than an album just being the next ~8 songs someone writes. Even within groups, it seems to work well if one or two band members provide that guiding vision, as Anderson or Anderson/Howe often did in '70s Yes, as Fripp did in most Crimson. A colleague today tweeted, "Something I've never learned in leadership course is how much *energy* you need as a leader to keep people engaged with your vision". I wonder if that also applies in bands? You hear of people leaving bands because they were frustrated in terms of making their ideas happen, as with Hackett from Genesis. But I wonder about when the guy "at the top" gets fed up with having to pull everyone along?

When I do my band/projects and solo albums I like to get at least a little "best of both worlds" thing happening in terms of the band collaboration aspect and the singular vision aspect. Even when writing in bands sometimes I'd take an improvised jam session written together as a band and make sense of it on my own with lyrics, melody and final editing/arrangement. So, I've done that a bit on my solo albums too. You get some of the magic chemistry of a collective but it all gets put together with a consistent thought process and vision. It'd be great if that could work as a 4 or 5-man band where it's balanced with everyone writing together but that's more rare I've found.

[bondegezou]

Video now out:

[rdclark]

No bass miming, but everybody else does. Weird.

Super-compressed vocals. Not much melody in the verses. Really mechanical up-and-down rhythm. All rather forgettable.

[Squids]

Hey guys. I'll be joining Billy and friends at the Alan White tribute concert this weekend in Seattle. If any of you are going and see me come say hi! I'll be performing some Yes music paying homage to Alan and also, for me, to Chris as well. That rhythm section was really powerful. Nothing like it really. Chris and Alan. I never really knew them. Just met them a few times but I always appreciated their immense sound on albums like Tales of Topographic Oceans, Going For The One, Drama and 90125.

[Boceephus]

Damn! Wish I’d known in advance. I’m taking care of my grandkids that night!
I hope it’s a great gig.


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