ELP Works Vol. 2

[Paulrus]

Works II reeks of "label contractual obligation" to me. The record company needed product, but the band was essentially out of gas. So they scrape together whatever leftovers they could come up with and voila!

To be fair, every time I pull this one out (every 5 years or so) I always come away thinking it's not as bad as I remembered it being. It's certainly better than Love Beach, and in some ways is an easier listen than Works I.

Does anyone know why the band were so creatively out of gas at the time? Was it the "high-living rock star" disease thing? I know Emo was devastated by losing his home in the fire, but all of their peers were still plowing along with major releases every year back then. It's been a while since read the Ed Macan book, but I don't think it was really covered there either.

[SteveSly]

Not much of a fan.

[happytheman]

Works II reeks of "label contractual obligation" to me. The record company needed product, but the band was essentially out of gas. So they scrape together whatever leftovers they could come up with and voila!

To be fair, every time I pull this one out (every 5 years or so) I always come away thinking it's not as bad as I remembered it being. It's certainly better than Love Beach, and in some ways is an easier listen than Works I.

Does anyone know why the band were so creatively out of gas at the time? Was it the "high-living rock star" disease thing? I know Emo was devastated by losing his home in the fire, but all of their peers were still plowing along with major releases every year back then. It's been a while since read the Ed Macan book, but I don't think it was really covered there either.

Love Beach was certainly spurred by contractual obligation.. this is covered in his book.. Curious part of this is Emerson talks of how Ahmet came to him and said how much he loved Works 1 but they should focus on shorter composition.. thus Love Beach happened.. two part of this conversation is puzzling.. 1). Works 2 was all short songs.. and 2). Officer and a Gentlemen took up all of side two of Love Beach..

[JJ88]

As for their late 70s crossroads, it just seems like they just couldn't be bothered anymore (which is their prerogative!). They'd done great 'accessible' songs at their peak- 'Lucky Man', 'From The Beginning', 'Still...You Turn Me On' etc.- so it's not like they couldn't go down that road and do it well. Instead, most of that first half of Love Beach feels churned out and very much 'will this do'.

As for Palmer's tracks on Works 2, I think 'Bullfrog' is interesting. It's a sort of electronic jazz-rock which Palmer never really followed up on, unfortunately.

[Sputnik]

Does anyone know why the band were so creatively out of gas at the time? Was it the "high-living rock star" disease thing? I know Emo was devastated by losing his home in the fire, but all of their peers were still plowing along with major releases every year back then. It's been a while since read the Ed Macan book, but I don't think it was really covered there either.

Macan does cover this in his book. He basically lays it at the feet of two things... taking an overly long hiatus, and Lake really changing during that period in terms of his commitment to the band, wanting to go in a more "singer-songwriter" direction. So it's a combination of the world changing while they basically did nothing, then a relative lack of commitment from Lake when they did get back together. I suspect there were some "lifestyle" issues sprinkled in there as well. But even without that, the band just didn't have the creative spark they once did, and never really got it back. That's Macan's take, and I basically agree with him.

Bill

[Fracktured]

Macan does cover this in his book. He basically lays it at the feet of two things... taking an overly long hiatus, and Lake really changing during that period in terms of his commitment to the band, wanting to go in a more "singer-songwriter" direction. So it's a combination of the world changing while they basically did nothing, then a relative lack of commitment from Lake when they did get back together. I suspect there were some "lifestyle" issues sprinkled in there as well. But even without that, the band just didn't have the creative spark they once did, and never really got it back. That's Macan's take, and I basically agree with him.

Bill

Sounds about right to me. I think they were burned out from excessive touring. This was also the time when rock was changing and prog was faltering in the eyes of labels as a money making machine.

[calyx]

Add tax exile to the mix, too. Living in luxury chalets around Lake Geneva isn't exactly an incentive to hard work, especially in the absence of any live performances between 1974-77.

[per anporth]

Add tax exile to the mix, too. Living in luxury chalets around Lake Geneva isn't exactly an incentive to hard work, especially in the absence of any live performances between 1974-77.

Whilst this is true - to whatever extent!!! (& also recognising the impact that the destructive fire in Emerson's house must have had) - it's also worth bearing in mind the extraordinary period of extended, & continuous, "hard work" that had preceded it: 10 albums recorded in a little under 7 years, almost constant touring - by the end of October 1974, I reckon Emerson must have performed close to 350 concerts with The Nice & ELP. Given the scale & intensity of these gigs, & the burden of composing he bore in both bands, it seems little wonder - in retrospect - that he had more or less burned out by 1974.

I guess the great unknown is whether there would have been any alternative "way back" which, had he/they done things differently, would have enabled him to regain some of that creative & performative spark. Personally, I think neither ELPowell nor the early 90s ELP revivals did any more than tread water. The one time where he seemed to find inspiration again was with Bonilla in the KEB - I think the KEB album is comfortably Emerson's best band-based achievement going all the way back to side 4 of Works. It seems clear that, however he managed to do so, Bonilla made Emerson feel comfortable in a performing band context, but even moreso, enabled him to rediscover a creative compositional spark in a band context. It's part of his personal tragedy that, by this stage, the injuries that he had suffered in his arms/wrists had taken such an irrevocable toll on his ability to play.

[grego]

What do you all think of this one?

I think Pt. 1 gets more attention but this is actually as cool. Maybe a little more diverse too. Just got it after years of hearing it was weak. It's not bad for a batch of leftovers, methinks.

I think it's a brilliant compilation of different bagatelle stuff, which shows the variability side of that unique band. Best things are probably the BSS out-takes, plus Lake's Christmas song, and Palmer's surreal Bullfrog ( which quotes Copland's 'Billy the Kid').

[calyx]

Whilst this is true - to whatever extent!!! (& also recognising the impact that the destructive fire in Emerson's house must have had) - it's also worth bearing in mind the extraordinary period of extended, & continuous, "hard work" that had preceded it.

Sure, but it's not unheard of in a lot of success stories (think of post-Dark Side Pink Floyd, for example) that hard work and talent generate well-deserved success and wealth [& no one's denying they were entitled to reap the rewards of their efforts], but as frequently happens, that change in their individual and collective life didn't do the band, or its creative juices, much good. It's a perennial tragedy of art - the best art usually comes from hungry (whether literally or metaphorically) artists...

[Rajaz]

It is so hard to believe that the same band who created the Brain Salad surgery masterpiece also produced this very poor outing. The differences are astronomical.

When Vol. II was released, I had recently seen live the Works Vol. I (WITH the Orchestra at MSG-NYC-July 77) and was still eager to follow the band's next move.

But when I put it on the turntable, man was I disappointed. A complete lack of continuity, no climax like Pirates and just a bunch of odds and ends left from the fine Works Vol. I.
Maybe with the exception of Father Christmas and Tiger in a spotlight, the other tracks were a let down. The inverted black to white cover with ELP logo was a neat idea and had its own appeal.

I have a live double CD release from a Nassau Coliseum concert recorded in February 1978 for this tour which is not all that bad, luckily it only includes just a few tracks from Vol. II
The latest re-issue has Vol. II as a double set with the Works Live included but separated due to space on CD. This the third time Works live has been released in different versions.

Vol. II Rating: **

[starless and bible black]

Works II reeks of "label contractual obligation" to me. The record company needed product, but the band was essentially out of gas. So they scrape together whatever leftovers they could come up with and voila!

To be fair, every time I pull this one out (every 5 years or so) I always come away thinking it's not as bad as I remembered it being. It's certainly better than Love Beach, and in some ways is an easier listen than Works I.

Does anyone know why the band were so creatively out of gas at the time? Was it the "high-living rock star" disease thing? I know Emo was devastated by losing his home in the fire, but all of their peers were still plowing along with major releases every year back then. It's been a while since read the Ed Macan book, but I don't think it was really covered there either.

From what I've heard about ELP's Works Vol. 2 is that it came out in order help offset the losses the band incurred after their tour in '77 to promote Works Vol. 1. It's possible that the Second Volume of Works would've been more of continuation of Works Vol. 1 instead of an album of outtakes, single B-Sides & solo works if the tour had made money (and ELP would not have had to do an LP like Love Beach).

[starless and bible black]

Does anyone know why the band were so creatively out of gas at the time? Was it the "high-living rock star" disease thing? I know Emo was devastated by losing his home in the fire, but all of their peers were still plowing along with major releases every year back then. It's been a while since read the Ed Macan book, but I don't think it was really covered there either.

Along with the reasons others have already said on this thread, I think ELP should've taken a year or two after the tour for Works Vol. 1 before coming out with another album. Of course, they couldn't do that since the tour in 1977 had been a financial disaster so Works Vol. 2 & Love Beach were quickly slapped together in 1977 & 1978.

[Progbear]

I hate it! Even Love Beach, I can make some “yes, but” comments in its favor (granted, weak ones), while I can’t really defend this one. And apart from maybe “The Gambler,” there’s nothing off of Love Beach I dislike as much as “Tiger in a Spotlight,” “Watching Over You” or “Show Me the Way to Go Home.” And there’s not a single song I actually like on it, not even the much-vaunted “Bullfrog,” which isn’t anything I’d prefer over Frank Zappa. The only reason I keep it is out of sheer completism, and because it would be more effort to get rid of it than it’s worth.

[Sean]

We are going to need you to go walk in the desert for six days and think about what you just said, PB.

[zeprogmeister]

From what I've heard about ELP's Works Vol. 2 is that it came out in order help offset the losses the band incurred after their tour in '77 to promote Works Vol. 1. It's possible that the Second Volume of Works would've been more of continuation of Works Vol. 1 instead of an album of outtakes, single B-Sides & solo works if the tour had made money (and ELP would not have had to do an LP like Love Beach).

Along similar lines I read they had a big loss from the Orchestra dates, and then had to do a long tour as a 3 piece to make up the funds, which basically burned the band out.

[Paulrus]

And apart from maybe “The Gambler,” there’s nothing off of Love Beach I dislike as much as “Tiger in a Spotlight,”...

Just for you Mike.

[Splicer]

Other than "Father Christmas" which I quite like, the rest of Works 2 just doesn't come across as memorable enough. I loved Works 1 especially the Emerson and ELP sides with bits and pieces of the L & P sides. Works 2 is simply too hodge-podge for me and a disappointment.

[the winter tree]

I think ELP lost the plot after Brain Salad Surgery.

[starless and bible black]

Along similar lines I read they had a big loss from the Orchestra dates, and then had to do a long tour as a 3 piece to make up the funds, which basically burned the band out.

Yes indeed; ELP's 1977 tour lost a lot of money due to having the big orchestra (and ticket sales for the shows fell way below expectations). I've read that Keith Emerson hated having to go out on tour as just the 3 piece band (and apologizing to fans in between songs that the orchestra wasn't there for those shows). Between having to put out Works Vol. 2 (to recoup some of the money the band lost), and having to put out Love Beach (to satisfy their record contract) not to mention Keith having lost his home in a fire, no wonder ELP was burned out.

[happytheman]

Yes indeed; ELP's 1977 tour lost a lot of money due to having the big orchestra (and ticket sales for the shows fell way below expectations). I've read that Keith Emerson hated having to go out on tour as just the 3 piece band (and apologizing to fans in between songs that the orchestra wasn't there for those shows). Between having to put out Works Vol. 2 (to recoup some of the money the band lost), and having to put out Love Beach (to satisfy their record contract) not to mention Keith having lost his home in a fire, no wonder ELP was burned out.

I recently found Family Tree Prog edition on Youtube and when they were interviewing Keith he mentioned how much he enjoyed touring with the Orchestra because it was such a "huge" sound, that when he had to tell the Orchestra they couldn't afford them anymore it was a real let down touring with just the three of them.. Could be these interviews are bogus and artist simply throw out whatever bit if info they think will give them what they came for. Palmer on the other hand mentioned they didn't think the Orchestra tour thru.. to him it was obvious that they would lose money.. so again read between the line.. Anderson in the same video said by '79 the band had lost respect for one another.. could be Lake and Emerson had enough of each other by then

[JJ88]

It's been said that it would have worked better financially had ELP just used orchestras from the area they were playing in, rather than touring with the same one.

They did a few more 'special' shows with the orchestra after Des Moines (MSG, Montreal), but that was the last show as part of the ongoing tour, yes.

Actually this whole article is a good insight into where they were at the time.

http://ladiesofthelake.com/cabinet/77Tour.html

[jefftiger]

It's been said that it would have worked better financially had ELP just used orchestras from the area they were playing in, rather than touring with the same one.

I've often wondered about this. Did rock groups use local orchestras back in the 70s when touring. For example, did Procol Harum tour widely in the 70s using local orchestras (I'm aware of Edmonton, but was that a one-off?). It seems pretty common these days.

[proggy_jazzer]

It's been said that it would have worked better financially had ELP just used orchestras from the area they were playing in, rather than touring with the same one.

Financially better? Perhaps. I played in a local festival orchestra for one of the Moody Blues' tours in the 90s, and I was paid quite well for a day's service (rehearsal/sound check/concert); $250-300 + mileage IIRC. I was a principal, but even if you go low on that amount to account for section players and multiply it by 60 individuals (can't remember the exact size of the orchestra but I think it was close to that) it's a hefty amount for one concert.

Musically speaking, the piano concerto alone was more demanding technically than anything on the Moodys' set list, and relying on pick-up groups to do the material justice on a single rehearsal would have been dicey. I can totally see why they made the decision to travel with an orchestra from that standpoint.

Actually this whole article is a good insight into where they were at the time.

http://ladiesofthelake.com/cabinet/77Tour.html

Looks very interesting - thanks for the heads-up!

[per anporth]

It's been said that it would have worked better financially had ELP just used orchestras from the area they were playing in, rather than touring with the same one.

They did a few more 'special' shows with the orchestra after Des Moines (MSG, Montreal), but that was the last show as part of the ongoing tour, yes.

Actually this whole article is a good insight into where they were at the time.

http://ladiesofthelake.com/cabinet/77Tour.html

That's a fascinating article, which makes for at times uncomfortable reading - thanks for the link.

There's so much to pick up here, reading between the lines & with hindsight - from the interpersonal relations in the band to the finances. The repeated refrain - that now it's all about the music - is particularly striking, given that, in effect, they had no more new music. But also, there's the very strong impression of how Emerson saw himself, at that moment...or, at any rate, how we would have liked to be seen.