Thread: JAZZ Discussion

  1. #951
    Quote Originally Posted by No Pride View Post
    That would surprise me if it's true. At least from my perception, jazz fans aren't generally big on vocals and fans of vocal music aren't big on jazz. In the heyday of jazz vocals (Billie Holiday, Ella Fitzgerald, Sarah Vaughan, etc.), it was more popular with the general public, because pop/rock music didn't exist yet. I suppose Diana Krall sells records and maybe Esperanza Spaulding, but I can't imagine that they're taking over today's jazz-listening public... or anything, for that matter.
    My point being that artists like Diana Krall can sell a lot of albums - way more than the latest Dave Holland or Charles Lloyd album. When a big-selling album by a vocalist gets the "jazz" tag, even if it's not, really, it can distort the overall `numbers somewhat.

    My point wasn't that jazz fans really like jazz vocals - like you, I'd be surprised if that was the case. However, when crossover type albums with vocals get categorized as jazz for charts purposes, it can affect the overall numbers.

  2. #952
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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    Legends of Acid Jazz - Trudy Pitts & Pat Martino 08 Fiddlin'




  3. #953
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    A couple months ago I was in Minot North Dakota and picking through the free weekly papers, there was a little paper from the Minot Air Force Base. The Lieutenant Dan Band was on the front page. I had to page through it to find a photo of Ernie. The paper seemed more interested in photos of Gary and the woman that sings with the band. Apparently they just aren't into men in their early sixties.
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  4. #954
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    LOL at that title, ZM! Calling it "Legends of Acid Jazz" was some marketing "genius'" there. There's a Wes Montgomery compilation with a similar title. I'd guess people who were really into acid jazz were gravely disappointed if any of them were duped by that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Facelift View Post
    My point wasn't that jazz fans really like jazz vocals - like you, I'd be surprised if that was the case. However, when crossover type albums with vocals get categorized as jazz for charts purposes, it can affect the overall numbers.
    I do like jazz vocals, though I'll admit that vocals are the minority in my jazz collection. I dig the ones I mentioned (especially Sarah Vaughan, who I LOVE!), along with others like Anita O'Day, Lambert, Hendricks & Ross, Al Jarreau (when he was a jazz singer). Bobby McFerrin is amazing imo!

    Anyway, I get your point. Dianna Krall is cool, she's a good singer and pianist, if hardly any sort of innovator. If jazz singers can pad jazz album sales, it's fine by me!
    Last edited by No Pride; 09-21-2015 at 04:58 PM.

  5. #955
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerjo View Post
    A couple months ago I was in Minot North Dakota and picking through the free weekly papers, there was a little paper from the Minot Air Force Base. The Lieutenant Dan Band was on the front page. I had to page through it to find a photo of Ernie. The paper seemed more interested in photos of Gary and the woman that sings with the band. Apparently they just aren't into men in their early sixties.
    Well Gary's the celeb (and btw, he just turned 60 in March), so it's not surprising that the photographers glom on to him. Heck, it's his band, after all! BTW, we have 3 chick singers (two of them are pretty hot looking) and 2 male singers (one plays acoustic guitar and the other plays fiddle).

    Of course, The Lt. Dan Band doesn't belong in this thread (though I get it, you knew you'd find me here, Jerjo ); it's a pop/rock cover band. Although... our best kept secret is that there's a pretty good jazz band contained within. The two horn players and the keyboard player are all fine jazz players and our drummer is Danny Gottlieb, from the original version of The Pat Metheny Group... and that guy has played with 2/3rds of all of my jazz heroes! I won't comment on my own playing, but I can and do play jazz. Sometimes we mess around playing jazz at the soundchecks (and even Gary knows a few jazz standards like "Footprints" and "All Blues"), but we don't really play any at our shows; Gary wants tunes that everybody knows and can sing along with or dance to.

  6. #956
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Pride View Post
    LOL at that title, ZM! Calling it "Legends of Acid Jazz" was some marketing "genius'" there. There's a Wes Montgomery compilation with a similar title. I'd guess people who were really into acid jazz were gravely disappointed if any of them were duped by that.
    Not much acid there either - But this is night radio, makes me sleepy.
    Wes Montgomery Talkin´ Verve (Roots Of Acid Jazz)


  7. #957
    Quote Originally Posted by Reid View Post
    The next CD I'm going to pick up is Kenny Wheeler's Large and Small Ensembles. I don't know how I missed this one back in the day, but I caught up with the large ensemble disc on YouTube, and I'm really knocked out! And the vocalist Norma Winstone, is ideal for Wheeler's music.

    I just interviewed drummer Peter Erskine, who played on MfL&SE, for the trio box liner the m down no for ECM, and he views it as a definitive record in his career...as did John Taylor, from a 2002 interview that I had in the can but never used. It's a truly great record, capitalizing on virtually every one of Wheeler's innumerable strengths. Losing him and John in the space of one short year was huge.

    I miss both of them terribly.

  8. #958
    Matt! polmico's Avatar
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    So went on a bit of a binge lately. Here are the recent purchases:

    Weather Report: s/t
    Herbie Hancock: Head Hunters
    Monk: Prestige Years (some very fine Monking trios on this one)
    Coltrane: My Favorite Things
    Coltrane: Giant Steps
    Collin Walcott: Cloud Dance
    Cherry, Vasconcelos, Walcott: The Cordona Trilogy
    Terje Rypdal: Vossabrygg

    So some themes in there and a lot to digest. I'm no good at reviewing albums, so I won't bother here, but I'd love to hear any thoughts or further suggestions (and some of those artists I already own quite a bit by; some I've quite literally never heard).
    I want to dynamite your mind with love tonight.

  9. #959
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by polmico View Post

    Weather Report: s/t
    is this still the version with the red frame of Columbia Jazz Master around the artwork??
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from heroin-addicts to crazy ones

  10. #960
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCC View Post
    Folks,
    Digging The Ganelin trio, a favorite here!:

    "The Ganelin Trio was the greatest ensemble of free-jazz in continental Europe, namely in Russia. Like other European improvisers, pianist Vyacheslav Ganelin, woodwind player Vladimir Chekasin and percussionist Vladimir Tarasov too found a common ground between free-jazz and Dadaism. Their shows were as much music as they were provocative antics."
    http://www.scaruffi.com/jazz/ganelin.html

    Highest recommendations!.

    - Con Anima:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6kOpdtwSzY

    - Ganelin - Chekasin - Tarasov Trio 1976 live
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKN4kEsBnVM

    - Ancora da capo:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiaKNPTvaEs
    A huge fan here. One of my favourite avant jazz ensembles; for me they're a sort of Henry Cow's counterpart on the jazz side of the fence. Their 2004 reunion gig at London Jazz Fest was mind-blowing!

    Con Anima (1976) together with Concerto Grosso (1978) are their studio masterpieces (both got re-released together on one CD). For their equally fascinating live side I would highlight Poco-A-Poco (1978) and Catalogue (1979).

    The live album you are mentioning (Ancora da capo) is my least favourite though, too conventional (if we can apply such a word for this band) in the Western avant/free-jazz vein.

    Their (early) discography is a mess though, despite the best efforts from Leo Records. Has this 1976 live piece from YT (the closing movement from the Poco-A-Poco cycle, if I am not mistaken) been released anywhere?

  11. #961
    Matt! polmico's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    is this still the version with the red frame of Columbia Jazz Master around the artwork??
    Yep.
    I want to dynamite your mind with love tonight.

  12. #962
    Moderator Poisoned Youth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCC View Post
    Pura Vida No Pride!!.

    Chano is from Spain; do you know CAI?, it was his first steps before moving on to the jazz scene.

    From their second album, Noche Abierta (1980)
    Cool. I love that CAI album.
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  13. #963
    Moderator Poisoned Youth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by polmico View Post
    So some themes in there and a lot to digest. I'm no good at reviewing albums, so I won't bother here, but I'd love to hear any thoughts or further suggestions (and some of those artists I already own quite a bit by; some I've quite literally never heard).
    It's hard to give suggestions not knowing what your tastes are and what you enjoyed or not. In other words, there a pile of 70s ECM albums I could recommend if you really dig something like Cloud Dance.

    One I would throw out there if you've never heard it is Herbie Hancock - Maiden Voyage. It's an essential album from that early-mid-60s Blue Note sound.

    For Coltrane, Giant Steps and MFT are nice albums, however I'd really consider exploring his early Impulse work like "Africa/Brass", "Coltrane", and "Impressions". I'm also quite fond of "Ole Coltrane" from his Atlantic sessions and his "Blue Train" album from Blue Note.

    If you are really diggin' the ECM vibe, here are some strictly 70s albums I'd recommend:

    Paul Motian - Conception Vessel
    Eberhard Weber - The Colours of Chloe
    Ralph Towner - Solstice
    John Abercrombie - Gateway
    Keith Jarrett - The Koln Concert
    Kenny Wheeler - Gnu High
    Pat Metheny - Bright Size Life
    Jan Garbarek - Places
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  14. #964
    Moderator Poisoned Youth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay.Dee View Post
    A huge fan here. One of my favourite avant jazz ensembles; for me they're a sort of Henry Cow's counterpart on the jazz side of the fence. Their 2004 reunion gig at London Jazz Fest was mind-blowing!

    Con Anima (1976) together with Concerto Grosso (1978) are their studio masterpieces (both got re-released together on one CD). For their equally fascinating live side I would highlight Poco-A-Poco (1978) and Catalogue (1979).
    Also a big fan. They are one of the more unique avant/free jazz ensembles out there with an interesting story that surrounds their struggles to create this kind of music under a communist state.

    They had more synergy as a group than most who dare to pull off such complex improvisational pieces.


    My faves and recommendations include:

    Catalogue
    Poco-A-Poco
    Ancora da Capo
    Semplice
    and Ttaango... in Nickelsdorf

    That 15 year reunion album wasn't too shabby either.
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  15. #965
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    Jean-Paul Bourelly Grass Hut

    http://bourelly.bandcamp.com/track/grass-hut

    When Jean-Paul Bourelly was still in jazz mode

  16. #966
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Pride View Post
    LOL at that title, ZM! Calling it "Legends of Acid Jazz" was some marketing "genius'" there. There's a Wes Montgomery compilation with a similar title. I'd guess people who were really into acid jazz were gravely disappointed if any of them were duped by that.



    I do like jazz vocals, though I'll admit that vocals are the minority in my jazz collection. I dig the ones I mentioned (especially Sarah Vaughan, who I LOVE!), along with others like Anita O'Day, Lambert, Hendricks & Ross, Al Jarreau (when he was a jazz singer). Bobby McFerrin is amazing imo!

    Anyway, I get your point. Dianna Krall is cool, she's a good singer and pianist, if hardly any sort of innovator. If jazz singers can pad jazz album sales, it's fine by me!
    The 'acid jazz' tag here was used to sell old records, not sure how successful it was. There was a British label of that name which largely did updated soul-jazz, I have never been sure where the 'acid' part was even on that.

    RE; jazz vocals. Bear in mind there was always crossover with artists like Frank Sinatra, Tony Bennett, Nat King Cole, Peggy Lee etc. Instrumental jazz seldom if ever appears on the 'pop' album charts now.

  17. #967
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    Quote Originally Posted by polmico View Post

    Herbie Hancock: Head Hunters
    I'd love to hear any thoughts or further suggestions (and some of those artists I already own quite a bit by; some I've quite literally never heard).
    If you don't have any Blue Note era(mid 60's) Herbie Hancock i'd recommend Empyrean Isles.
    "please do not understand me too quickly"-andre gide

  18. #968
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    It's hard to give suggestions not knowing what your tastes are and what you enjoyed or not. In other words, there a pile of 70s ECM albums I could recommend if you really dig something like Cloud Dance.

    One I would throw out there if you've never heard it is Herbie Hancock - Maiden Voyage. It's an essential album from that early-mid-60s Blue Note sound.

    For Coltrane, Giant Steps and MFT are nice albums, however I'd really consider exploring his early Impulse work like "Africa/Brass", "Coltrane", and "Impressions". I'm also quite fond of "Ole Coltrane" from his Atlantic sessions and his "Blue Train" album from Blue Note.

    If you are really diggin' the ECM vibe, here are some strictly 70s albums I'd recommend:

    Paul Motian - Conception Vessel
    Eberhard Weber - The Colours of Chloe
    Ralph Towner - Solstice
    John Abercrombie - Gateway
    Keith Jarrett - The Koln Concert
    Kenny Wheeler - Gnu High
    Pat Metheny - Bright Size Life
    Jan Garbarek - Places
    This is the kind of post that costs me a lot of money
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  19. #969
    Member No Pride's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by polmico View Post
    So went on a bit of a binge lately. Here are the recent purchases:

    Weather Report: s/t
    Herbie Hancock: Head Hunters
    Monk: Prestige Years (some very fine Monking trios on this one)
    Coltrane: My Favorite Things
    Coltrane: Giant Steps

    Collin Walcott: Cloud Dance
    Cherry, Vasconcelos, Walcott: The Cordona Trilogy
    Terje Rypdal: Vossabrygg

    So some themes in there and a lot to digest. I'm no good at reviewing albums, so I won't bother here, but I'd love to hear any thoughts or further suggestions (and some of those artists I already own quite a bit by; some I've quite literally never heard).
    Weather Report, Coltrane and Herbie Hancock are artists that were constantly exploring and changing their respective styles in the process. Head Hunters was Herbie's first heavily funk oriented jazz album and if you like that one you'll like the follow up, "Thrust" even more. "Maiden Voyage" and "Empyrean Isles" are earlier post-bop albums; I love them, but ymmv (and if you do like them, you should also explore Wayne Shorter's Blue Note albums from the same period like "Juju" and "Speak No Evil"). Trane's "Giant Steps" was when he took hard bop about as far as it could go; "My Favorite Things" sort of marks the beginning of his modal period which continues to evolve and gradually get more "free" on his Impulse label albums, but MFT is more accessible than what would follow (it was probably his best selling album). Weather Report's s/t debut was spacey with a lot of collective improvisation, they'd get a little more composition oriented and a bit more slick as time went on.
    Last edited by No Pride; 09-26-2015 at 11:49 AM.

  20. #970
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    RE; jazz vocals. Bear in mind there was always crossover with artists like Frank Sinatra, Tony Bennett, Nat King Cole, Peggy Lee etc.
    Well that was the pop music of it's day. Sinatra had screaming girls in his audience, just like The Beatles.

  21. #971
    Matt! polmico's Avatar
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    I've got a pretty big swath from ECM (lots of Abercrombie and Rydal), and I'm basically filling in gaps on Coltrane. Walcott, Weather Report and Hancock are all first listens and new entries to the collection. Really digging Cherry on Cordona, so I'll probably explore his work further. I know he worked with Ornette early on, so I'll probably grab some of that. Weather Report and Head Hunters aren't usually what I gravitate toward, but I figured I should fill in some gaps. Both are good, but I'll be slow to explore further in that direction (I guess Mahavishnu is the only other true fusion band I own).
    I want to dynamite your mind with love tonight.

  22. #972
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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    Fabulous "Jazz" vocalist


  23. #973
    Matt! polmico's Avatar
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    By the way, Monk's Prestige years box is opening up nicely. Most of the stuff I have from Monk is with Rouse on tenor, and while he fits well with Monk, I've never warmed to his "breathy" style. No Rouse here. A lot of these sessions feature Blakey on drums, too. He got Monk well. So a nice purchase if you're looking for early Monk.

    A session with Davis is included. The results are not quite incongruous. I suppose that's the best I can say there.
    I want to dynamite your mind with love tonight.

  24. #974
    Member No Pride's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeuhlmate View Post
    Fabulous "Jazz" vocalist

    I loved it for the first minute or so, but after a while I found myself yearning for a modulation or at least a chord change. But the performances by all were great!

  25. #975
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    Quote Originally Posted by polmico View Post
    Really digging Cherry on Cordona, so I'll probably explore his work further. I know he worked with Ornette early on, so I'll probably grab some of that.
    Complete Communion
    Symphony for Improvisers
    Where Is Brooklyn?

    With Ornette, start with This Is Our Music
    Michael: "Harold, don't you have any other music, you know, from [last] century?"
    Harold: "There is no other music....."

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