JAZZ Discussion

[Reid]

I've always had issues with jazz recorded before the late 50s. The tracks just sound very tinny to my ears, like they're coming out of an old time radio. I've got a Duke Ellington compilation and though I tried it a few times my mental block to the sound quality stymied me. This afternoon I decided to play it in the background as I was working and hallelujah, it finally took. Still sounds a bit "old" but I was able to get into it. I suppose this means there are hundreds of CDs I should now track down and listen to...

Most albums before '58 were recorded in mono. But the Contemporary label was recording in stereo in '56. And their stuff sounds superior to the other labels of the time, imo. Check out For Real by Hampton Hawes, or Landslide by Curtis Counce. And Shelly Manne at the Black Hawk is great stuff. Mono is ok, if it's not too dry and crusty sounding. But if you want to listen to the bebop masters or classic jazz, there's no stereo. There's a lot of prime Ellington stuff in stereo from the late 50s. Blues In Orbit, and Such Sweet Thunder are great albums.

[Vic2012]

I'm sorta taking a journey through the swing era. No, not buying any recordings, but enjoying a lot of documentaries. Currently watching "The Swing Thing" (a BBC documentary). I doubt I'll actively seek out this music but if I happen to find some boxsets I'll probably grab a couple. It's amazing how "swing" was America's "popular" music of its time. Teens were all gaga over it. Bennie Goodman, Count Basie, Duke, etc., etc. were rock stars in their day.

[No Pride]

Woody Shaw is the last great trumpet innovator, IMO. One of my favorite musicians ever.

Woody Shaw was a straight up monster, both as a player and writer

I've heard Shaw before and I had an album with him and Freddie Hubbard (I forget what it's called), but I really ought to get some albums by him. I knew a trumpet player who was hugely influenced by him; played a lot of those licks utilizing 4ths and once when I asked him about his harmonic concepts, he wrote a few of his licks out for me.

I was equally impressed by Shaw's sax player on that "Stepping Stones" track, Carter Jefferson. Now that's a guy I'd never heard of before! Apparently before becoming a member of Shaw's band, he played with Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers. Come to think of it, I need to hear more of that stuff too!

[Reid]

I just put on the Stepping Stones CD. It's the only one I can find at the moment. I really dig the second track, In A Capricornian Way. He definitely had his own sound and concept. I'll have to dig around for my other Shaw CDs. I know I have Blackstone Legacy, and The Moontrane here somewhere.

He's on one of my favorite Horace Silver albums, Cape Verdean Blues. And some great live albums by Bobby Hutcherson, and Joe Henderson. And Chick Corea's debut, Tones For Jones Bones, also w/ Joe Farrell.

[wideopenears]

If you can find the Mosaic Box of Shaw, it's got all his Muse sessions. It's a bit pricey, but....

http://www.mosaicrecords.com/prodinf...hr4aAp9M8P8HAQ

I love Blackstone Legacy, though it's not really representative of his work--it's like his Bitches Brew.

[wideopenears]

..there's also a Columbia set out there, too....

[No Pride]

Chick Corea's debut, Tones For Jones Bones, also w/ Joe Farrell.

I forgot about that one (and that Shaw was on it). I had "Inner Space" on vinyl (when I had a vinyl collection); it was a double album that had all of Tones for Joan's Bones and some other tracks from that session (and some from a later one).

Not to change the subject (but to change the subject)...

I think John Scofield's funk and jam band type stuff is cool, but I'll still and always like his straight ahead jazz albums best.

Vintage Sco:

[JJ88]

I've always had issues with jazz recorded before the late 50s. The tracks just sound very tinny to my ears, like they're coming out of an old time radio. I've got a Duke Ellington compilation and though I tried it a few times my mental block to the sound quality stymied me. This afternoon I decided to play it in the background as I was working and hallelujah, it finally took. Still sounds a bit "old" but I was able to get into it. I suppose this means there are hundreds of CDs I should now track down and listen to...

If you're talking about 20s/30s/40s jazz, then not only is it mono (of course), but a lot of it was pre-tape, so background noise is inevitable- or at least it should be, and not heavily noise-reduced. Even the mid-late 40s Charlie Parker Savoy/Dial stuff was not recorded on tape, so it's never going to sound that great.

[JJ88]

I'm sorta taking a journey through the swing era. No, not buying any recordings, but enjoying a lot of documentaries. Currently watching "The Swing Thing" (a BBC documentary). I doubt I'll actively seek out this music but if I happen to find some boxsets I'll probably grab a couple. It's amazing how "swing" was America's "popular" music of its time. Teens were all gaga over it. Bennie Goodman, Count Basie, Duke, etc., etc. were rock stars in their day.

I'm getting into this more, Benny Goodman's 'Sing Sing Sing' I've been playing a few times lately, that's quite a track!

[jkelman]

I forgot about that one (and that Shaw was on it). I had "Inner Space" on vinyl (when I had a vinyl collection); it was a double album that had all of Tones for Joan's Bones and some other tracks from that session (and some from a later one).

Not to change the subject (but to change the subject)...

I think John Scofield's funk and jam band type stuff is cool, but I'll still and always like his straight ahead jazz albums best.

Vintage Sco:

One of my absolute favourite, along wth his live album from the year before:

[Trane]

^^
That Live Scofield is the only album of his that I'd consider owning (for lack of space considerations)

[Poisoned Youth]

I love Blackstone Legacy, though it's not really representative of his work--it's like his Bitches Brew.

That was my introduction to Shaw. That's a great album.

His work overall has been kind of hit or miss for me though. I find standout tracks on most of his heralded albums mixed with forgettable ones. My favorite is probably Love Dance.

[Reid]

The next CD I'm going to pick up is Kenny Wheeler's Large and Small Ensembles. I don't know how I missed this one back in the day, but I caught up with the large ensemble disc on YouTube, and I'm really knocked out! And the vocalist Norma Winstone, is ideal for Wheeler's music.

[Facelift]

Apparently, it's smelling funny again:

http://thejazzline.com/news/2015/03/...r-music-genre/

"According to Nielsen‘s 2014 Year-End Report, jazz is continuing to fall out of favor with American listeners and has tied with classical music as the least-consumed music in the U.S., after children’s music.

Both jazz and classical represent just 1.4% of total U.S. music consumption a piece. However, Classical album sales were higher for 2014, which puts Jazz at the bottom of the barrel.

This continues an alarming trend that has seen more and more listeners move away from jazz every year..."

[Reid]

This continues an alarming trend that has seen more and more listeners move away from jazz every year..."

It doesn't work that way. The majority aren't exposed to jazz and classical in the first place. At least not in America.

[No Pride]

Apparently, it's smelling funny again:

http://thejazzline.com/news/2015/03/...r-music-genre/

"According to Nielsen‘s 2014 Year-End Report, jazz is continuing to fall out of favor with American listeners and has tied with classical music as the least-consumed music in the U.S., after children’s music.

Both jazz and classical represent just 1.4% of total U.S. music consumption a piece. However, Classical album sales were higher for 2014, which puts Jazz at the bottom of the barrel.

This continues an alarming trend that has seen more and more listeners move away from jazz every year..."

I find it hard to believe that jazz fans themselves are "moving away" from jazz, though I can believe that young music consumers in general are less and less interested. How are they supposed to even know about it in a country that has no interest in it's own cultural heritage? What those statistics probably reflect is that the jazz fans (being an older demographic) are dying off and the appreciation of the art form isn't being passed on to the younger generations. At least not in the US. Several countries in Europe and South America appreciate it (and are willing to pay for it) more than the country it was born and raised in.

[Facelift]

I find it hard to believe that jazz fans themselves are "moving away" from jazz, though I can believe that young music consumers in general are less and less interested. How are they supposed to even know about it in a country that has no interest in it's own cultural heritage? What those statistics probably reflect is that the jazz fans (being an older demographic) are dying off and the appreciation of the art form isn't being passed on to the younger generations. At least not in the US. Several countries in Europe and South America appreciate it (and are willing to pay for it) more than the country it was born and raised in.

I think the key here is the older demographic of the audience. They aren't buying jazz downloads, because they probably don't buy downloads of anything. Their heroes from the '50s and '60s and now even the '70s are dying off or retiring from recording and performance. The music itself, between 1965 and 1975, changed tremendously.

Jazz sales benefitted tremendously from the era of CD reissues (mid '90s through the mid 2000s), to hit on a point going on in another thread (about the resurgence of prog in the 1990s). I think this phenomena may have masked how little the CD sales were going on for most of the more current artists. Once these fans got their hands on items that had been out of print for years, how many new albums by artists who had come up in the 80s or 90s were really getting bought?

Also - though I don't have the figures in front of me - I'd bet that a large portion of sales in any given year for newly-released jazz albums consist of sales to albums with vocals on them. Thus, jazz sales are at least somewhat subject to the whims of categorization.

[TCC]

Time for some flamenco jazz here ...:

Jorge Pardo y Chano Domínguez - 10 de Paco (1995)
RIP Paco, el de Lucìa!.

AMG: "Post-bop jazz and flamenco are combined with enriching results on 10 de Paco, a session that Spanish saxophonist Jorge Pardo co-led with pianist Chano Dominguez."



FYI:
"The guitar, of course, is the principal instrument in flamenco -- in both the traditional flamenco and in the innovative nuevo flamenco that has been the rage among young Spanish audiences since the 1970s. Yet no guitarist is employed on 10 de Paco, and that makes for a de Lucia tribute that is unorthodox and risk-taking. Thankfully, those risks pay off in a major way, making 10 de Lucia a CD that both jazz and flamenco fans will find fascinating." -Taken from AMG.-

[No Pride]

Time for some flamenco jazz here ...:

Jorge Pardo y Chano Domínguez - 10 de Paco (1995)
RIP Paco, el de Lucìa!.

I listened to the first track; nice stuff! I'll have to listen to the whole thing when I get a chance.

It made me think of this Michel Camilo track that's a duo of piano and flamenco dancer. Can't remember the dancer's name (and I'm too lazy to go dig the CD out of my living room), but he sure has fast feet!


Speaking of Camilo; one of my favorite tracks of his:

[TCC]

No Pride wrote:
"I listened to the first track; nice stuff! I'll have to listen to the whole thing when I get a chance."
The same here w/Camilo`s Hands & Feet: first time, thanks for the recommendation.

From Chano Dominguez, Hecho a Mano (1996) is another winner No Pride:


Enjoy!!.

[No Pride]

I think the key here is the older demographic of the audience. They aren't buying jazz downloads, because they probably don't buy downloads of anything. Their heroes from the '50s and '60s and now even the '70s are dying off or retiring from recording and performance. The music itself, between 1965 and 1975, changed tremendously.

All I know is that I'm going to be 62 in a couple of weeks and I buy jazz downloads, though I can't speak for the rest of my demographic. And jazz musicians NEVER retire unless they're afflicted with some debilitating disease. Even if they could afford to retire, they rarely do; playing music is as essential for them as breathing air. As for "the music itself," some of it changed tremendously, some not. There's still plenty of new bebop albums coming out (I hear those kind of new releases on Chicago's one jazz radio station); some players fall in love with a certain phase of jazz and stay there.

Also - though I don't have the figures in front of me - I'd bet that a large portion of sales in any given year for newly-released jazz albums consist of sales to albums with vocals on them.

That would surprise me if it's true. At least from my perception, jazz fans aren't generally big on vocals and fans of vocal music aren't big on jazz. In the heyday of jazz vocals (Billie Holiday, Ella Fitzgerald, Sarah Vaughan, etc.), it was more popular with the general public, because pop/rock music didn't exist yet. I suppose Diana Krall sells records and maybe Esperanza Spaulding, but I can't imagine that they're taking over today's jazz-listening public... or anything, for that matter.

[No Pride]

From Chano Dominguez, Hecho a Mano (1996) is another winner No Pride:

You've got my number, TCC, I liked it! Where is Chano from?

[TCC]

You've got my number, TCC, I liked it! Where is Chano from?

Pura Vida No Pride!!.

Chano is from Spain; do you know CAI?, it was his first steps before moving on to the jazz scene.

From their second album, Noche Abierta (1980)

[walt]

All I know is that I'm going to be 62 in a couple of weeks .

Ha ha,you're old ,Ernie.(i'll be 62 on December 1).

[No Pride]

Ha ha,you're old ,Ernie.(i'll be 62 on December 1).

"Don't you geezers have anything better to do with your limited time on Earth?"

Apparently not.