Thread: JAZZ Discussion

  1. #626
    Member hippypants's Avatar
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    Had not heard of Fire Orchestra, but I like it. Stimpy Lockjaw is pretty good too.

    Listened to some Arild Andersen, which is pretty typical ECM jazz stuff, but pretty good:


  2. #627
    Banned Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Pride View Post
    These guys hardly suck; it's just too dissonant and devoid of lyricism for me. YMMV. Here they are together:
    Now I have to wonder what club has a mural of a Carl Sagan-looking guy standing in front of Boston's Gov't Center.

  3. #628
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reid View Post
    ^^^
    Love the rhythm section! That drummer is great! Really didn't even need the horns.
    Yeah, I dig the drummer too. These guys can play, I'm not denying that. Just not my bag. It's not even the dissonance; I dig Ben Monder and he's got plenty of that going on. Though I do have to be a in the right mood to listen to him. I guess I'm just old school; I want to hear jazz players who sound like they've at least listened to a bebop record at some point in their lives.

  4. #629
    I just listened to it again, and I still like it! The playing is great, and it's an interesting composition. I would like to hear what other pieces they have.

  5. #630
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    The guitarist got more interesting for me at 5 minutes in when he starting getting away from that repetitive line he'd been playing up to then,and was stretching out a bit.Good byplay between the guitar and drums.I'd like to hear more from him.
    "please do not understand me too quickly"-andre gide

  6. #631
    Quote Originally Posted by hippypants View Post
    Listened to some Arild Andersen, which is pretty typical ECM jazz stuff, but pretty good
    Not sure what you mean by "typical ECM" as that's a perpetuated myth that, if you look at the label's output, has no real merit, with all due respect. There is nothing typical, imo, about the label's output.

    But that aside, this is a very solid record that I reviewed back when it was released. With hindsight, I think I still prefer this trio's first record, Achirana, because while The Triangle is a stronger, more muscular record by a trio that had done some additional touring and was all the better for it, Achirana has that sound of surprise and is a much more introspective record, which I happen to prefer in this case.

  7. #632
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reid View Post
    I would like to hear what other pieces they have.
    Quote Originally Posted by walt View Post
    I'd like to hear more from him.




    I'm only part of the way through this Miles Okazaki concert, but I'm finding it pretty interesting!

  8. #633
    Quote Originally Posted by hippypants View Post
    typical ECM
    Now there's the biggest oxymoron I've seen in quite a while.

  9. #634
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiral View Post
    Now there's the biggest oxymoron I've seen in quite a while.
    Nice to know I'm not alone. Thank you for a Boxing Day gift!

  10. #635
    Progga mogrooves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Pride View Post
    I want to hear jazz players who sound like they've at least listened to a bebop record at some point in their lives.
    Of current players Joshua Breakstone, Mark Elf, and Bob DeVos should appeal.
    Hell, they ain't even old-timey ! - Homer Stokes

  11. #636
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    Anyone see that movie Whiplash?
    I saw it last night, BIG SPOILERS AHEAD.

    No, really, there's spoilers to follow, skip to this if you want to be spoiler free.

    >>

    >>

    >>

    It's a good movie, but I had some issues with it. It was made on a shoestring in 19 days, but that didn't bother me. Miles Teller as the 19 year old student jazz drummer Andrew gives an amazing performance and JK Simmons as the psychotic teacher Fletcher is amazing as well. It's well directed, filmed, acted and edited, the script is very good despite a pointless sub-plot involving Teller's character Andrew and a young woman he falls for. I often get the feeling those kinds of sub-plots are put in movies so that the audience doesn't think a character is gay (see: any cop buddy movie ever made).

    Andrew is a lonely music obsessive with a dad who doesn't quite "get" why his son is so obsessed with being a jazz drummer and not something important like, say, a football player (the mother left when he was a child). There's a great scene with Andrew and his dad at a family dinner where everyone fawns over a jock cousin and ignores Andrew. Andrew is accepted in to a fictitious music school (it's set in New York but was filmed in Los Angeles, odd) and their elite jazz program. Simmons plays a teacher in the jazz orchestra program who mocks, scorns, berates and slaps students for *gasp* playing flat or *gasp* for not being able to keep a quarter note = 250 steady tempo. He's abusive, says really nasty things to everyone and generally is someone that the phrase "justifiable homicide" was invented for. The movie shows the ensemble preparing to do the competition circuit.

    The actual music is well done and Teller does a very good job at playing the drums (he plays in "real life"). The ensemble has "real" players in it as well, I especially like the bass player and the lead trumpet player (sorry, can't figure out who they were from the credits). They focus on the jazz standards Whiplash and Caravan, they're straight-ahead arrangements.

    My problem with the Simmons character is that in reality, he wouldn't last 10 minutes in a music program acting like he does, especially when he physically abuses Andrew. He'd be fired and sued on the spot, but it's portrayed that he's such a freakin' genius that the ensemble are so in awe of him that they're willing to put up with the abuse. The conductor Pierre Boulez is famous for being able to hear the 3rd clarinet playing ever-so-slightly flat in a 100 piece orchestra, but we're not really given a reason for why Fletcher is considered such a genius, it's just a given.

    My three major problems with the movie are:

    1) The ensemble is at a competition and Andrew spaces out and misses the place he's supposed to get off the bus. He rents a car but forgets his sticks at the rental agency. He gets to the venue with minutes to spare, realizes he forgot his stick bag, goes back and on the way he's in a car accident. He's hit by a car full-on on the driver side and yet he's still able to climb out of the overturned car, limp back to the venue and make it on stage. He collapses, leaving blood all over the kit but it's ludicrous. The accident as depicted would have likely killed him instantly, not leave him with some bruises and a messed-up hand. It's simply not plausible in a movie built on being hyper-realistic.

    2) is that Andrew finally gives up the drums after 1) and doesn't play for months. He sees that Fletcher is leading a piano trio at a club and walks in. He meets Fletcher after the set and they reconcile. Fletcher invites Andrew to play drums at the ensemble's Carnegie Hall gig, even though Andrew hasn't played in months and has two weeks or so to prepare. It's just unrealistic that a guy wouldn't play for months and in the space of two weeks be even better than he was when he played all the time.

    3) The movie ends with the performance at Carnegie Hall. It's a set-up by Fletcher: instead of Caravan or Whiplash, he calls a new tune by a contemporary writer that Andrew has never heard before AND he makes sure Andrew doesn't have the chart either. Andrew screws up, walks off stage, gets a hug from dad and then.....walks back on stage crying and calls for Caravan! Fletcher can only be pissed but of course, Andrew kills it, the ensemble plays great and he does this long solo that makes Buddy Rich (Andrew's idol) look like a beginner. Fletcher finally acknowledges Andrew's talent > credits. Totally absurd and the solo goes on for too long as well.

    As I mentioned, it's a well made movie, but the Fletcher character is so awful to everyone and says some really homophobic and religion-based slurs (of course, they don't dare have him call any of the black players nigger or darkie or anything) that it's simply laughable that anyone would spend an entire class with him, let alone go to the ends of the earth for him. Andrew is also a bit of a blank slate, we're supposed to gather that he's a lost soul because his mother left, but really, that's it?

    Sorry for the length of this, but this is a prog board.
    ...or you could love

  12. #637
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    Anyone see that movie Whiplash?
    I saw it last night, BIG SPOILERS AHEAD.

    No, really, there's spoilers to follow, skip this if you want to be spoiler free.

    >>

    >>

    >>

    It's a good movie, but I had some issues with it. It was made on a shoestring in 19 days, but that didn't bother me. Miles Teller as the 19 year old student jazz drummer Andrew gives an amazing performance and JK Simmons as the psychotic teacher Fletcher is amazing as well. It's well directed, filmed, acted and edited, the script is very good despite a pointless sub-plot involving Teller's character Andrew and a young woman he falls for. I often get the feeling those kinds of sub-plots are put in movies so that the audience doesn't think a character is gay (see: any cop buddy movie ever made).

    Andrew is a lonely music obsessive with a dad who doesn't quite "get" why his son is so obsessed with being a jazz drummer and not something important like, say, a football player (the mother left when he was a child). There's a great scene with Andrew and his dad at a family dinner where everyone fawns over a jock cousin and ignores Andrew. Andrew is accepted in to a fictitious music school (it's set in New York but was filmed in Los Angeles, odd) and their elite jazz program. Simmons plays a teacher in the jazz orchestra program who mocks, scorns, berates and slaps students for *gasp* playing flat or *gasp* for not being able to keep a quarter note = 250 steady tempo. He's abusive, says really nasty things to everyone and generally is someone that the phrase "justifiable homicide" was invented for. The movie shows the ensemble preparing to do the competition circuit.

    The actual music is well done and Teller does a very good job at playing the drums (he plays in "real life"). The ensemble has "real" players in it as well, I especially like the bass player and the lead trumpet player (sorry, can't figure out who they were from the credits). They focus on the jazz standards Whiplash and Caravan, they're straight-ahead arrangements.

    My problem with the Simmons character is that in reality, he wouldn't last 10 minutes in a music program acting like he does, especially when he physically abuses Andrew. He'd be fired and sued on the spot, but it's portrayed that he's such a freakin' genius that the ensemble are so in awe of him that they're willing to put up with the abuse. The conductor Pierre Boulez is famous for being able to hear the 3rd clarinet playing ever-so-slightly flat in a 100 piece orchestra, but we're not really given a reason for why Fletcher is considered such a genius, it's just a given.

    My three major problems with the movie are:

    1) The ensemble is at a competition and Andrew spaces out and misses the place he's supposed to get off the bus. He rents a car but forgets his sticks at the rental agency. He gets to the venue with minutes to spare, realizes he forgot his stick bag, goes back and on the way he's in a car accident. He's hit by a car full-on on the driver side and yet he's still able to climb out of the overturned car, limp back to the venue and make it on stage. He collapses, leaving blood all over the kit but it's ludicrous. The accident as depicted would have likely killed him instantly, not leave him with some bruises and a messed-up hand. It's simply not plausible in a movie built on being hyper-realistic.

    2) is that Andrew finally gives up the drums after 1) and doesn't play for months. He sees that Fletcher is leading a piano trio at a club and walks in. He meets Fletcher after the set and they reconcile. Fletcher invites Andrew to play drums at the ensemble's Carnegie Hall gig, even though Andrew hasn't played in months and has two weeks or so to prepare. It's just unrealistic that a guy wouldn't play for months and in the space of two weeks be even better than he was when he played all the time.

    3) The movie ends with the performance at Carnegie Hall. It's a set-up by Fletcher: instead of Caravan or Whiplash, he calls a new tune by a contemporary writer that Andrew has never heard before AND he makes sure Andrew doesn't have the chart either. Andrew screws up, walks off stage, gets a hug from dad and then.....walks back on stage crying and calls for Caravan! Fletcher can only be pissed but of course, Andrew kills it, the ensemble plays great and he does this long solo that makes Buddy Rich (Andrew's idol) look like a beginner. Fletcher finally acknowledges Andrew's talent > credits. Totally absurd and the solo goes on for too long as well.

    As I mentioned, it's a well made movie, but the Fletcher character is so awful to everyone and says some really homophobic and religion-based slurs (of course, they don't dare have him call any of the black players nigger or darkie or anything) that it's simply laughable that anyone would spend an entire class with him, let alone go to the ends of the earth for him. Andrew is also a bit of a blank slate, we're supposed to gather that he's a lost soul because his mother left, but really, that's it?

    Sorry for the length of this, but this is a prog board.
    ...or you could love

  13. #638
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    Quote Originally Posted by mogrooves View Post
    Of current players Joshua Breakstone, Mark Elf, and Bob DeVos should appeal.
    I saw Breakstone live once. Meh. Will check those other guys out when I get a chance.

  14. #639
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    Just picked up an album by Sean Jones - The Search Within. I need to hear more from thios guy. He seems to be one of the better new trumpeters around now, and the rest of the band play great also.
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  15. #640
    Progga mogrooves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Pride View Post
    I saw Breakstone live once. Meh.


    Exceptional note choices!
    Hell, they ain't even old-timey ! - Homer Stokes

  16. #641
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    Quote Originally Posted by mogrooves View Post


    Exceptional note choices!
    Sorry, Mo, but that wasn't my impression. You know how that goes; sometimes our tastes intersect; sometimes they veer off wildly.

  17. #642
    A link with some live recordings that may or may not be on the new Jack DeJohnette CD, Made In Chicago.
    https://www.newmusicusa.org/projects...de-in-chicago/

  18. #643
    Member wideopenears's Avatar
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    Saw a cool movie, with tangents to Jazz.....Intangible Asset #82, about an Aussie Jazz Drummer who becomes involved in Korean shamanistic music.....anyone else seen it?

  19. #644
    Quote Originally Posted by wideopenears View Post
    Saw a cool movie, with tangents to Jazz.....Intangible Asset #82, about an Aussie Jazz Drummer who becomes involved in Korean shamanistic music.....anyone else seen it?


    Yup. Saw it when it premiered at Jazztopad in Wrocław, Poland in 2013. The drummer and singer were there...the lead photo is from their show....and it was amazing. A very inspirational thing. Spent a lot of time chatting with the drummer, Simon, and he had a lot of terrific suggestions for destressing my life that I've actually tried to put into practice.


    Anyway, whole review here, from beginning so you can see pic. The review of their how starts in last paragraph here. And link to page where review of film is here, starting on second to last paragraph on the page.

    I'd try to find this movie somehow, somewhere. It's quite amazing.

  20. #645
    Member wideopenears's Avatar
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    I had a feeling you might have seen it, John. Agree with your comments, and I'm going to DL some of Simon's work--the footage of him playing was pretty tasty!

  21. #646
    Boo! walt's Avatar
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    Looking forward to this cd.Supposed to be out this month(perhaps first in Europe).

    Last edited by walt; 01-20-2015 at 05:34 PM.
    "please do not understand me too quickly"-andre gide

  22. #647
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    Leszek Możdżer - Komeda 2011 Very nice piano music. (Think Jarret, Jan Johansson)


  23. #648
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    Self Determination Music, the 1970 Flying Dutchman recording by the John Carter-Bobby Bradford Quartet( bass player Henry Franklin is also on the album),will be reissued, for the first time on cd, in March.Ace records is putting it out.Originally scheduled to be reissued by International Phonograph, the label that did such a stellar job on the reissues of Bill Dixon, Julius Hemphill and Carter-Bradford titles, but Ace took back the rights and are putting it out.Lets hope they do as good a job as Int'l Phonograph.



    Pre-orders on Amazon.

    Autobuy.
    Last edited by walt; 01-20-2015 at 06:18 PM.
    "please do not understand me too quickly"-andre gide

  24. #649
    Banned Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walt View Post
    Looking forward to this cd.Sopposed to be out this month(perhaps first in Europe).
    On Facebook, Gary Husband posted a photo from a recording session that he's doing with DeJohnette.
    Both guys were playing piano.

  25. #650
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    Quote Originally Posted by walt View Post
    Looking forward to this cd.Supposed to be out this month(perhaps first in Europe).
    Interesting! I kind of forgot that Jack was associated with the AACM when he was young and still living in Chicago. I used to go hear Muhal Richard Abrams and some of the other AACM guys in the early '70s; in fact that's how I ended up in my first jazz band, led by Fred Anderson, who was also associated with the AACM. I first met Larry Gray back then too; we went to college together (and he was a guitar player at the time). I'm curious to hear this album!

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