Music That Grows on You

[Wilton Said...]

The Marillion Sounds That Can't be Made thread got me thinking about music that needs more then one listen to appreciate or like. Being a Marillion fan myself I've read a lot of threads and topics where people mention that more current Marillion is music which needs more then one listen to appreciate, or music which needs to grow. While on one hand I can understand this, on the other had I think WTF!!!!! How many listens does it take, or should it take to "like" something? Why should it take more then one listen to like something? Surely this line of thinking could be used for any music which one doesn't find appealing. I almost want to say that if you listen to almost anything enough times, you'll grow to dislike it less and less. Discussion anyone?

Wilton

[Progtopia]

Rush was that way for me. But once I got it, I got it! Usually, though, if something doesn't grab me within the first time or two of listening, I find that these days, it's never going to.

[Septober Energy]

I have to respectfully disagree, but it's an interesting point for discussion. I was just discussing this with a friend tonight, actually. As I told him, I have long thought that much of the best music was that which took multiple listens to appreciate (generally speaking). Music that can be fully appreciated on first listen generally has less to offer over the long haul and is quickly forgotten. This is part of why no one really listens to Brittney Spears anymore, but people are still listening to and discovering the music of King Crimson, Yes, Soft Machine, Magma, Captain Beefheart, etc. (to name a few examples relevant to our readers, and to say nothing of the masters of classical, jazz and other musical forms).

"Challenging" music - music that's more complex, more subtle or very unusual is likely to take longer for most people to fully appreciate than music without these characteristics. Challenging music isn't necessarily "better," but it will certainly take longer to fully sink in. One might "like" it on first listen, but one might not fully get it till later. However, my experience has often been that I didn't like it on first listen, but I loved it by the 50th listen.

And now for the 523 dissenting opinions...

[Man In The Mountain]

The older I get (now 49) the "less" I find this to be true of myself. I usually know on a first listen if I like something or not, or I would like to listen to this again, or "WOW" this is really amazing. In fact, a few times recently I put some CDs in and didn't like them, then tried to play them again, and found I had even less tolerance to sit through it. I didn't used to be this way however, but I have so many cool things I can listen too and enjoy, I just don't have the time or willingness to discover what all the fuss is about. Several highly praised poll winning albums from this last year come to mind.

[Oreb]

All I know is that some of my favourite albums (i.e. ones that have passed the test of time - decades, in some cases) were ones that I didn't particularly recognise as great when I first heard them.

I have slow ears: they don't always hear the melody straight away.

The older I get (now 49) the "less" I find this to be true of myself. I usually know on a first listen if I like something or not, or I would like to listen to this again, or "WOW" this is really amazing.

Being the same age, I have a similar experience in that I can usually tell which albums are likely to open out for me, and therefore will repay the time I invest.

[Chuck AzEee!]

Yes-Tales From Topographic Oceans, The Yes Album
King Crimson-Red
Genesis-And Then There Were Were Three, in matter of fact their entire catalogue except for Nursery Cryme.
Kansas-Monolith
Ornette Coleman-Dancing In Your Head
UK-UK

These albums (except for Genesis) fit the bill as they all took years for me to appreciate.

[hippypants]

"Challenging" music - music that's more complex, more subtle or very unusual is likely to take longer for most people to fully appreciate than music without these characteristics. Challenging music isn't necessarily "better,"

I tend to agree with this line of thought, but I might go on to say, that most of the time it is "better"--at least imo, granted that's a pretty subjective thing. But music that I readily enjoy, tends to gets put on the shelf quicker and not returned to. It becomes disposable quicker. Whereas something that is more subtle or complex, you can return to again and again.

[JIF]

I used to hate Nirvana, Pearl Jam, and The Smashing Pumpkins, but now I love them.

[Trane]

The older I get (now 49) the "less" I find this to be true of myself. I usually know on a first listen if I like something or not, or I would like to listen to this again, or "WOW" this is really amazing. In fact, a few times recently I put some CDs in and didn't like them, then tried to play them again, and found I had even less tolerance to sit through it. I didn't used to be this way however, but I have so many cool things I can listen too and enjoy, I just don't have the time or willingness to discover what all the fuss is about. Several highly praised poll winning albums from this last year come to mind.

yeah, I agree...

Back then, there were dozens of group (GG and VdGG for ex... both took me more than 15 years to appreciate fully) I had a hard time at first that eventually grew on me (RIO as a genre ... at first, it was : WTF...).... I simply wasn't ready for them...

I don't know if I have much more musical baggage nowadays (more likely yes, at age 49) or whether I'm less tolerant (or even more self-sufficient), but but I now seem to know instantly whether I will get into something right away or not at all.... There is much less stuff I'm willing to test over a few trials to see if it will permeate me and my shell of indifference... Generally, if something doesn't strike me right away, force-feeding myself with it will only grow me into getting allergic to it, rather than grw a tolerance to it...

[bill g]

For me there are things that hit me right off. Chord changes, great melodies and such I usually look for and appreciate right away. But depth of composition, can't always be appreciated right away. This might be found in subtle recurring melodies, contrasts, or just plain moodiness within a piece that isn't apparent right away, because its put there by the artist that feels different things than the listener. I'll cite Big Big Train as an example of moodiness, in music. Much of Greg Spawton's composition has an underlying melancholy feeling to it that is very powerful, but may not always be noticed right away. Genesis, and by Genesis I mean Tony Banks, is a master of layering moods into music, and so Genesis was always a prime example of music that was touted to 'grow on you', and Tony Banks did this to the extreme, I think, with his latest orchestral album. As to subtle recurring melodies, which Banks is very good at, Gentle Giant also were great at, not to mention layering moods within their music.

[bill g]

Oh, and I want to add that repeating melodies too often, no matter how good, is not good if an artist wants the music to grow on his or her listeners. Some bands, even ones that are excellent at putting moods into music, may repeat great melodies too many times, which lends itself to sounding really good the first few listens rather than later listens.

[The Fantastic Progo Rican]

I used to hate Nirvana, Pearl Jam, and The Smashing Pumpkins, but now I love them.

Same here, usually I'm a decade behind when it comes to music appreciation

[bill g]

Never related to Nirvana, Pearl Jam or the Pumpkins, but I sure love the modern indie music these days. Bands like Tennis, Local Natives, and such I think are great. And there are a ton of them. But I do notice, at least for me, none of them produce music that grows on me like a lot of prog. Tends to be more immediate for me.

[gingernut]

For me there are things that hit me right off. Chord changes, great melodies and such I usually look for and appreciate right away. But depth of composition, can't always be appreciated right away. This might be found in subtle recurring melodies, contrasts, or just plain moodiness within a piece that isn't apparent right away, because its put there by the artist that feels different things than the listener. I'll cite Big Big Train as an example of moodiness, in music. Much of Greg Spawton's composition has an underlying melancholy feeling to it that is very powerful, but may not always be noticed right away. Genesis, and by Genesis I mean Tony Banks, is a master of layering moods into music, and so Genesis was always a prime example of music that was touted to 'grow on you', and Tony Banks did this to the extreme, I think, with his latest orchestral album. As to subtle recurring melodies, which Banks is very good at, Gentle Giant also were great at, not to mention layering moods within their music.

I concur with the point on BBT. Goodbye to the Age of Steam took exactly 11 listens to click, but now is one of my top 10. The Difference Machine was another difficult one. I'm currently struggling with English Electric Part 1.

[bill g]

I concur with the point on BBT. Goodbye to the Age of Steam took exactly 11 listens to click, but now is one of my top 10. The Difference Machine was another difficult one. I'm currently struggling with English Electric Part 1.

Yes, and every one of the albums has that mood to it, that one can grow into. I think the English Electric albums also have a detail of instrumentation that may take even longer to appreciate.

[syncopatico]

"Challenging" music - music that's more complex, more subtle or very unusual is likely to take longer for most people to fully appreciate than music without these characteristics. Challenging music isn't necessarily "better," but it will certainly take longer to fully sink in. One might "like" it on first listen, but one might not fully get it till later. However, my experience has often been that I didn't like it on first listen, but I loved it by the 50th listen.

I agree!
As a young teenager, my older Deadhead brother had exposed to some classic Zappa records like Apostrophe(') and One Size Fits All, both of which i loved immediately (and still dig today). A few years after that i first encountered "The Adventures Of Greggary Peccary" which baffled me completely and found it quite impenetrable. Of course, now i consider it (along with many other people) to be the *definitive* Zappa epic encapsulating all that is so great about FZ's music!

[ThomasKDye]

Well. This is the perfect thread for this.

So I checked out "The Raven that Refused to Sing" (the title song) on YouTube, with the cartoon video of the old man dying. For the first five minutes, I'm thinking: "Uh... this song is basically the same piano thing over and over with maybe a few bones thrown to some of us who like 'changes.'" And I'm also thinking, "Damn, maybe 'Deadwing' was the only Steven Wilson-related project I ever needed AT ALL." Then the drums kick in around the five minute mark... and my thoughts change to "Huh. Okay." Then, in the last minute of the song, I'm practically tearing up.

That's the fastest I've gone from "What's the fuss all about?" to "Holy mackerel."

[Trane]

Same here, usually I'm a decade behind when it comes to music appreciation

Yeah, I've got always a certain delay in "digging" actual/new music... I had to wait until Kid A to get into Radiohead and Absolution for Muse...

but I was early on the ball on Portishead and GYBE!, both of which got me into their respective genres (with moderation): Trip-hop and Post rock

[Bake 1]

Figuring out why some one is, (or isn't) able to recieve and enjoy music can be hard. Getting into an I know what I like, and I like what I know rut is easy. When you assume you have a good yardstick for determining what's good and what's not, it's sometimes nice to find out you were wrong. Unfortunately, it seems most people will go to great lengths to justify and hang on to prejuidice and ignorance, unable to get beyond ... I don't like it = it's not good.

[Progbear]

I have experienced this with England’s Garden Shed, After Crying’s Megalázottak és megszomorítottak, the Locanda delle Fate and Pablo “El Enterrador” albums and most of the Renaissance catalogue. I resisted them for the longest time, not getting the hype, and just when I was about to give up on them, something clicked. Now they’re all personal favourites.

I had hopes that Zarathustra by Museo Rosenbach would affect me similarly but alas, ’twas not to be. I still find it overrated.

-------------
MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")

"You can take the war out of the soldier, but you can't raise that soldier from the dead."
--Shona Laing

N.P.:“Inside Straight”-Grits/Rare Birds

[JIF]

I have experienced this with England’s Garden Shed, After Crying’s Megalázottak és megszomorítottak, the Locanda delle Fate and Pablo “El Enterrador” albums and most of the Renaissance catalogue. I resisted them for the longest time, not getting the hype, and just when I was about to give up on them, something clicked. Now they’re all personal favourites.

I had hopes that Zarathustra by Museo Rosenbach would affect me similarly but alas, ’twas not to be. I still find it overrated.

-------------
MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")

"You can take the war out of the soldier, but you can't raise that soldier from the dead."
--Shona Laing

N.P.:“Inside Straight”-Grits/Rare Birds

I got Renaissance right away. In fact, their unique sound and Anne's unique voice got me into female artists.

[yogibear]

part of "the getting" is i think based on familiarity of the band or the style they are playing. I never really had any problem with "getting" a band since i either liked it right off or didn't and the ones i didn't got traded in straight away like the next couple of days or that weekend. complex music for me has always been something i loved and granted it may take a few listens to get/hear it all but i would always know if it was "a keeper" or "a get rid of" cd vey early in the relationship.

i do have a couple of cd's that others say are great and i never liked them then and have since tried to go back to re hear them and i always arrive at the same meh or nah it is still as bad as i rremmeber it to be. lol

[ScottAM]

The majority of modern prog takes me several listens to really love it. It's very rare that I absolutely love something on first listen - PT's "In Absentia" being a prime example. So, I need to decide which artists I'm willing to put that effort in to.

I'm much more inclined to make the effort for bands who are currently gigging, who I might have the chance to see on tour some day. So, quite often I will make the effort for Rosfest bands since I go to that festival, and I enjoy their sets a lot more when I know & appreciate the songs ahead of time. But that means I'm not as motivated to go back to 70's bands that I missed and try to get into their catalog now.

[yogibear]

[QUOTE=ScottAM;65616]I'm much more inclined to make the effort for bands who are currently gigging, who I might have the chance to see on tour some day. /QUOTE] i use live shows and boots as an addendum to the studio stuff. if a band can do live what they do in the studio i will probably like them a bit more than other bands who can't deliver the goods live.

[PeterG]

The older I get (now 49) the "less" I find this to be true of myself. I usually know on a first listen if I like something or not, or I would like to listen to this again, or "WOW" this is really amazing. In fact, a few times recently I put some CDs in and didn't like them, then tried to play them again, and found I had even less tolerance to sit through it. I didn't used to be this way however, but I have so many cool things I can listen too and enjoy, I just don't have the time or willingness to discover what all the fuss is about. Several highly praised poll winning albums from this last year come to mind.

Exactly, I'm approaching 52, and so like yourself have built up decades of understanding what I like and what I know I won't like. If I don't like something on first listen, that's it, I don't waste anymore time with it.
For example, in the symph prog thread I recently created I got loads of suggestions, and I knew from bar one, track one that I liked and was going to like Cirrus Bay, Big Big Train, Wobbler, Francis Likerish, David Minasian, Landmarq, Phideaux. I also knew from bar one, song one what I wasn't going to like.