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Thread: Featured album: Caravan - Cunning Stunts

  1. #1
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Featured album: Caravan - Cunning Stunts

    http://www.progarchives.com/progress...82742016_r.jpg


    Caravan - Cunning Stunts


    stunts.jpg


    Tracks Listing:
    1. The Show of Our Lives (5:47)
    2. Stuck in a Hole (3:09)
    3. Lover (5:08)
    4. No Backstage Pass (4:35)
    5. Welcome the Day (4:03)
    6. Dabsong Conshirto (18:01) :
    - a) The Mad Dabsong
    - b) Ben Karratt Rides Again
    - c) Pro's and Con's
    - d) Wraiks and Ladders
    - e) Sneaking Out the Bare Quare
    - f) All Sorts of Unmentionable Things
    7. The Fear and Loathing in Tollington Park (1:09)

    Line-up:
    - Pye Hastings / electric & acoustic guitars, vocals
    - David Sinclair / piano, Fender electric piano, organs, Mini Moog, Freeman String Symphonizer, arranger (4,6c,6e)
    - Geoff Richardson / viola, acoustic (6a) & electric (1,6e) guitars, flutes
    - Mike Wedgwood / bass & fretless bass, congas, Moog (2), arranger (3,4), vocals
    - Richard Coughlan / drums, percussion
    With:
    - Jimmy Hastings / brass arranger & conductor (6c,6e)


    Here is what Warthur had to say about it on ProgArchives
    The consensus amongst most Caravan listeners seems to be that somewhere along the way they drifted a bit too far into commercialised poppy soft-rock realms, lost their distinctive personality, and churned out some really bad albums. The main point of disagreement seems to be precisely where the decline began.

    Personally, I take a hardline approach: Cunning Stunts, the album which changed up Caravan's sound and swapped out the Canterbury style of For Girls Who Grow Plump In the Night in favour of cheesy strings, anonymous and generic jazz-rock blended with unconvincing stabs at hard rock, and The Dabsong Conshirtoe, Caravan's least convincing epic.

    Over time this has grown on me a little, and I have to admit that some parts of it are pretty darn catchy - Stuck In a Hole, in particular, has an echo of the whimsy which ran through Caravan's work from their debut to Plump In the Night, and some of the band's attempts at funk aren't too terrible. Judged on its own merits, I'd say that this album's actually pretty good... the problem is, whilst it's a good album in its own right, it's by no means a good Caravan album - not in terms of delivering the Caravan sound, and not in terms of hitting the high standards we'd come to expect of the band.

    I've come to the conclusion that the basic problem that Cunning Stunts had isn't necessarily that it's too pop - but it is too much of the wrong kind of pop, the sort that ages badly and seems tasteless and trite in retrospect. There was daring, interesting, whimsical, and otherwise Caravan-esque stuff happening in some corners of 1970s pop - but that's not the sort of pop they go for here. A little too often, the album becomes redolent of ugly paisley-patterned wallpaper and other aspects of the 1970s we all prefer to overlook.

    Whilst it probably made sense to Caravan to pivot away from the hippy underground music of their origins to instead focus on something more suited to the way the commercial winds were blowing, this isn't that - and as the increasingly poor reception of Caravan's late-1970s/early 1980s attempts to go all-out pop shows, this would be a recurring problem. Compare to their debut album - redolent of the psychedelic pop of the time, and all the richer for it.

    It's one thing to give up on your classic sound and sell out - but if you're going to do so, you should at least bring something to the table that people want to buy. Cunning Stunts is worth a listen less for its attempts at 1970s pop and more for the last flashes of old Caravan it offers; Stuck In a Hole, for instance, is notable less for sounding like something from the 1970s and more for the way it sounds like a lost song from the 1960s - you could see it being a forgotten psych-tinged pop number very easily.

    Whilst some argue that Blind Dog At St. Dunstan's has its merits, I'd say that Cunning Stunts is probably the last Caravan album you really need to listen to from their classic run; if you really, truly like the poppier aspects of it, maybe Blind Dog's also worth a try, but even fans of that musical style seem to balk at later albums from the 1970s and 1980s.

    It's notable that when Caravan put out their ill-advised albums of rerecorded songs in the late 1990s, All Over You and All Over You Too (never a good sign when a band resorts to such gambits!), they didn't get around to including anything from Cunning Stunts until All Over You Too, and then they only touched Stuck In a Hole. If even Pye Hastings and company themselves don't really see the album as being worth revisiting to the same extent as the albums from If I Could Do It All Over Again... to Plump In the Night, why should you?




    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  2. #2
    This album is a real outlier for Caravan, since it's the only one where Pye Hastings is pretty much benched. Dave Sinclair does most of the writing and was clearly going in a different direction. Mike Wegdwood gets most of the lead vocals and two compositions, and he'd only just joined. Can't really hear it as a commercial sellout, since it's too all over the map to be that.

    That said, I still love the album. Show of Our Lives is a grand opener. Wedgwood's "Lover" seems to get a lot of flak, but it sounds to me like something Ray Thomas would write for the Moodies. If you want great playing, the second half of "Dabsong" has that; and the tapeloop/ musique concrete finale is unique for them. And since he was down to two songs, both of Hastings' tunes are gems-- man, he could swing a melody. And he'd be back in control for Blind Dog, which sounds like the logical followup to "For Girls WHo.."

  3. #3
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bRETT View Post
    This album is a real outlier for Caravan, since it's the only one where Pye Hastings is pretty much benched. Dave Sinclair does most of the writing and was clearly going in a different direction. Mike Wegdwood gets most of the lead vocals and two compositions, and he'd only just joined. Can't really hear it as a commercial sellout, since it's too all over the map to be that.
    What do you make of Grey & Pink, where he only gets one track in (Pigs Will Fly) and it's easily the worst on the album?

    TBH, for years (nearly decades ), I thought this album was very much subpar to everything they'd done, partly due to the different production values and a "dumb" album cover and despite the hilarious title (not their first effort in that direction), thought it was not subtle enough for them.
    But in the last few years, I've grown to be more objective, and TBH, I've thought it equalling Waterloo Lilly (their poorest pre-Stunts album, IMHO) and not any worse than the two original tracks written for the New Symphonia album, Mirror & Virgin (both average, IMHO).

    I also changed my mind about the "commercial nature of the album", because it's not really so: only Stuck In A Hole sounds like an obvious attempt at pop song, but I'm not sure the track title would've made it to the FM/AORadios playlist, unless being sold as a Monty Pythonesque humour.
    Last edited by Trane; 10-24-2020 at 07:41 PM.
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    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Just got this recently, but haven't listened yet. I'll be interested to read the views of everyone here.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    What do you make of Grey & Pink, where he only gets one track in (Pigs Will Fly) and it's easily the worst on the album?
    .
    Not one of his stronger tunes, but his vocal on the first bit of "Nine Feet Underground" is lovely. But I wouldn't say he was invisible on that album, since he was Caravan's sole guitarist then, and I always liked his guitar playing. By Cunning Stunts it seems Geoff Richardson had taken over most of the guitar.

  6. #6
    Member StarThrower's Avatar
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    I bought Stunts, and Plump just last year. Time for another listen. Right now I can recall only The Show Of Our Lives which is a great song, imo.

  7. #7
    Member rickawakeman's Avatar
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    This was actually the first Caravan album I owned, having found a used vinyl copy while we were living outside of New Haven in the early '80s, so I have a soft spot for it.

  8. #8
    Member Camelogue's Avatar
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    I like it a lot, it was one of the first Caravan I bought also!

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    Stunts is an odd record. Side 1 has a high-quality mix of hard rock with solid riffs and soft rock with above-average melodies for the genre. Not a lot of prog though. Show of our Lives probably ranks among my 10 favorite Caravan tracks of all time.

    Side 2 is a mediocre paint-by-numbers prog "epic". First sections are good but it runs out of steam pretty quickly. Second half is pure filler: The ersatz jazz section, the final not-that-great riff repeated for five minutes for no particular reason.

    To summarize, some high-quality tunes but as an album it doesn't hang together. I find St. Dunstan's a step up from Stunts if only for coherence. And despite owning St. Dunstans for 40 years I only just now discovered the very amusing origin of the title.
    Last edited by arturs; 10-24-2020 at 09:31 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by arturs View Post
    . And despite owning St. Dunstans for 40 years I only just now discovered the very amusing origin of the title.

    I haven't yet, so please explain!

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    ^^^ This is from the St. Dunstan's wiki page:

    At the end of the song "Jack and Jill", amongst dogs barking, two speaking voices can be heard:

    First voice: "What are those two doggies doing over there?" Second voice "Well, the doggie in front is blind and his friend behind is pushing him all the way to St Dunstan's"*

    * St. Dunstan apparently was the patron saint of the blind as per that same wiki page...

  12. #12
    Yeah, I always thought this was a “weird” one, on account of how Pye was sidelined for the bulk of it. I guess only “Stuck in a Hole,” “No Backstage Pass” and a little of “Dabsong” belong to him, other than that it’s the Dave/Mike/Geoff show. It’s not my favorite album, “Welcome the Day” and “Lover” are ick, but in general I enjoy it. In fact, the only Caravan album from their original run where I don’t enjoy anything would have to be The Album, which I can definitively say is a bad album. Even the much-maligned Better by Far has stuff to recommend it.
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  13. #13
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arturs View Post
    ^^^ This is from the St. Dunstan's wiki page:

    At the end of the song "Jack and Jill", amongst dogs barking, two speaking voices can be heard:

    First voice: "What are those two doggies doing over there?" Second voice "Well, the doggie in front is blind and his friend behind is pushing him all the way to St Dunstan's"*

    * St. Dunstan apparently was the patron saint of the blind as per that same wiki page...
    In this case, St Dunstan is surely the wall gate access that you can see on the album's cover - and in my profile pic. Martin (Alucard) waited a few minutes to try to catch an red Imprerial bus going through, alas they're all yellow nowadays.

    There is also a running gag with For Girls' The Dog, The Dog, he's at it again title.

    Quote Originally Posted by Progbear View Post
    Yeah, I always thought this was a “weird” one, on account of how Pye was sidelined for the bulk of it. I guess only “Stuck in a Hole,” “No Backstage Pass” and a little of “Dabsong” belong to him, other than that it’s the Dave/Mike/Geoff show. It’s not my favorite album, “Welcome the Day” and “Lover” are ick, but in general I enjoy it. In fact, the only Caravan album from their original run where I don’t enjoy anything would have to be The Album, which I can definitively say is a bad album. Even the much-maligned Better by Far has stuff to recommend it.
    I must say that at least The Album has the catchy reggae Clear Blue Sky, which IMHO is of Caravan-quality, something that nothing on Better By Far couldn't reach.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bRETT View Post
    This album is a real outlier for Caravan, since it's the only one where Pye Hastings is pretty much benched. Dave Sinclair does most of the writing and was clearly going in a different direction. Mike Wegdwood gets most of the lead vocals and two compositions, and he'd only just joined.
    Interesting. I think it's a good album, but there was always something slightly odd about it and this might be the reason. There's definitely a whole lot of Mike Wedgwood. I do love 'Show Of Our Lives' though- a truly majestic, stirring song.

    I think most of '..Dabsong..' is strong, but I find the conclusion somewhat sprawling and weak.

    Hastings' 'No Backstage Pass' is fine. 'Welcome The Day' never did much for me. The rest is mostly OK, though not great as such. I agree that Blind Dog... feels more of a natural follow-up to For Girls...

  15. #15
    Member Paulrus's Avatar
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    I'd rate this a B- album. It has elements of what people like about Caravan, but none of it at the same level of earlier records. Most of the jazziness is gone, replaced by generic mid-70s pop rock. It just not as Canterbury as their better work. But I do still occasionally spin it and I usually find more to like about it than not, although some of that is just the pure nostalgia trip.

    And a question to those more in the know than moi: why was Pye sidelined for this one?
    I'm holding out for the Wilson-mixed 5.1 super-duper walletbuster special anniversary extra adjectives edition.

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    Wow, I don't understand the disdain for the side two "epic," which is one of my favorite pieces of Caravan music ever! "Dabsong Conshirto" has everything that I admire about the band wrapped up into a building Jazzy-Rock crescendo. Outstanding work on side 2 for sure. Side one is okay, but not something I revisit often with the exception of "Show Of Our Lives". Overall, I give the album a "C" for side one and a B+ for side two.

    I guess I am hearing something really dynamic in "Dabsong Conshirto" that no other poster above catches.

    Trane; you indicated that the album has grown on you over the years; does that also apply to your appreciation for "Dabsong Conshirto" as well?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    I must say that at least The Album has the catchy reggae Clear Blue Sky, which IMHO is of Caravan-quality, something that nothing on Better By Far couldn't reach.
    It's far more of a pop album, but I think The Album has some nice moments. All three Hastings tracks are good, and I'd rate Sinclair's "Whatcha Gonna Tell Me" with the catchiest Caravan tracks. My favorite Album track though is "It's Never Too Late," which was originally just a B-side. Really don't like the maudlin "Piano Player" though.

  18. #18
    I love it. Yes, it's not as Canterbury as what came before it, but I really don't care. The songwriting is simply amazing. Who can write a simple, beautiful song as No Backstage Pass nowadays? Pye's feeble voice is so moving and adorable. The Conshirtoe? Simply outstanding in my opinion. Progressive music to sing along to - I caught myself many times singing bulks from the album, and I don't have the lyrics and it's not even my own language.

    Canterbury it may not be, but it's definitely Caravan, their spirit is very much in there. As a kind of a swansong.

  19. #19
    Member Teddy Vengeance's Avatar
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    This was my first Caravan album too and while the fare is not proggy-prog, so what, I’m still quite fond of the general rock Circa 1975 on offer here. It takes skill to compose effectively across genres.

  20. #20
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunRunner2 View Post
    Trane; you indicated that the album has grown on you over the years; does that also apply to your appreciation for "Dabsong Conshirto" as well?
    Yes, even Dabsong didn't resonnate much with me. FTM, I used to prefer Blind Dog to it, but nowadays, I prefer Stunts.

    Quote Originally Posted by bRETT View Post
    It's far more of a pop album, but I think The Album has some nice moments. All three Hastings tracks are good, and I'd rate Sinclair's "Whatcha Gonna Tell Me" with the catchiest Caravan tracks. My favorite Album track though is "It's Never Too Late," which was originally just a B-side. Really don't like the maudlin "Piano Player" though.
    Well neither of those three albums are good, but I prefer Back To Front to the other two, but own none of them. I had made a project to do a CDr compilation of the better tracks of those three albums, and when I made the count, it added up to +/- 25-mins.
    To fill the 80-mins up, I'd have to include Battle and Breakfast's best tracks (nothing from Cool Waters) and still wouldn't reach the brim. I did hear twice their latest one, but never dug deeper, despite seeing the band live twice since.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zappathustra View Post
    Canterbury it may not be, but it's definitely Caravan, their spirit is very much in there. As a kind of a swansong.
    I would extend it (swansong) to Blind Dog.
    Last edited by Trane; 01-26-2021 at 02:38 PM.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  21. #21
    I love this album. First owned it on 8-track. Poppier to be sure, but solid in every regard. Always brings a smile! Ring the bells and sing!
    Sleeping at home is killing the hotel business!

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post

    Well neither of those three albums are good, but I prefer Back To Front to the other two, but own none of them.
    Back to Front is also a mixed bag, but the good stuff outweighs the bad.
    "Bet You Wanna Take It All" is my favorite Pye Hastings song of the 80s, zippy and melodic. Richard Sinclair's two songs are charming. And "Proper Job" is classic Canterbury styled Caravan, though way too short at nine minutes. If they'd extended that and dropped the rest of side two it would have been a great album.

    Cool Water to me is the only non-worthwhile Caravan album.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by SunRunner2 View Post
    Wow, I don't understand the disdain for the side two "epic," which is one of my favorite pieces of Caravan music ever! "Dabsong Conshirto" has everything that I admire about the band wrapped up into a building Jazzy-Rock crescendo. Outstanding work on side 2 for sure.
    I thing Side 2 Dabsong is great. The album overall has a very different feel, but it's still great.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by arturs View Post
    ^^^ This is from the St. Dunstan's wiki page:

    At the end of the song "Jack and Jill", amongst dogs barking, two speaking voices can be heard:

    First voice: "What are those two doggies doing over there?" Second voice "Well, the doggie in front is blind and his friend behind is pushing him all the way to St Dunstan's"*

    * St. Dunstan apparently was the patron saint of the blind as per that same wiki page...
    St Dunstan is a particularly interesting English saint, his Wiki page is well worth a read. The charity for blinded ex-servicemen was named St Dunstan’s and his name lives on in several churches and a school too. He was once Archbishop of Canterbury and a keen harpist who no doubt dabbled in 13/8 and multi-part suites.

  25. #25
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    Gave this another listen late last night. Like "No Backstage Pass" a lot, "Dabsong…" until the final 5 minutes, and the short final track. Wedgewood's vocal style doesn't work for me, and the other songs on side one aren't my cup of tea. Recently decided to sell "Blind Dog..." and "Battle of Hastings", which had a good song or two, but I've been getting rid of a lot of "pretty good/completist" albums lately. Too many albums, too little time.

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