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Thread: AAJ Album Info: King Crimson 1969 Box Detailed Track & Personnel Listing

  1. #1

    AAJ Album Info: King Crimson 1969 Box Detailed Track & Personnel Listing



    Good morning all! As promised, while my review of King Crimson's The Complete 1969 Recordings box is still a ways away, I've uploaded the detailed track and personnel listing, which should, at the very least, grab some folks' interest. The listing includes sources for every recording, what work has been done on them and who has done it, and if/where they have been previously released.

    This will be attached to my review, when done, but for now something to whet the appetite: The Complete 1969 Recordings
    John Kelman
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  2. #2
    Banned Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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    Thanks, John!
    I have a feeling the first disc to hit my player will be CD12-Let’s Make A Hit Waxing.

  3. #3
    The almost complete 1969 recordings...
    Only includes Trees from the Croydon concert, although a 35 minutes recording (of very poor quality) exists.

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    Quote Originally Posted by unclemeat View Post
    The almost complete 1969 recordings...
    Only includes Trees from the Croydon concert, although a 35 minutes recording (of very poor quality) exists.
    What else is on the tape ? No other unheard material, I would presume ?
    Calyx (Canterbury Scene) - http://www.calyx-canterbury.fr
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    What else is on the tape ? No other unheard material, I would presume ?
    Croydon 17 october 1969 :

    Epitaph
    Trees
    The court of the crimson king
    Mars
    Last edited by unclemeat; 10-21-2020 at 04:19 PM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    What else is on the tape ? No other unheard material, I would presume ?
    No. This is very low+quality, so as they say, was included Tor archival purposes only.
    John Kelman
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  7. #7
    The complete 1970 recording sessions (Cat food / Groon, Poseidon & Lizard) will be released this year by DGM...

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    Banned Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclemeat View Post
    The complete 1970 recording sessions (Cat food / Groon, Poseidon & Lizard) will be released this year by DGM...
    It's a 50 year copyright protection release thing...
    https://www.dgmlive.com/tour-dates/2458

    I'm guessing it's all found on the Sailor's Tales box?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by unclemeat View Post
    The complete 1970 recording sessions (Cat food / Groon, Poseidon & Lizard) will be released this year by DGM...
    btw

    https://fb.watch/1mgf9sBNyD/

  10. #10
    Thank you very much for the link to this HQ version – and everybody who understands German will again cringe and develop extreme amounts of "Fremdschämen" ('foreign-shame', being embarrassed for others) for the moderator...
    τί ἐστιν ὃ μίαν ἔχον φωνὴν τετράπουν καὶ δίπουν καὶ τρίπουν γίνεται;

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    What else is on the tape ? No other unheard material, I would presume ?
    They only included Trees, as it says in my listing, for archival purposes. It's very poor audio so I can understand why they only included Trees as it was only played, I believe, at that show.
    John Kelman
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave (in MA) View Post
    It's a 50 year copyright protection release thing...
    https://www.dgmlive.com/tour-dates/2458

    I'm guessing it's all found on the Sailor's Tales box?
    Not all the session tapes, just some of the stuff, including some bassist auditions. But I don't know if they plan to release all the session reels as they did with 1969 (6 cds). I'd love it, but dunno if they'd do out for all Crimson albums. Maybe they'd do what the grateful dead is doing with their Angel's Share session reels for Eorkingman's Dead and American Beauty.
    John Kelman
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave (in MA) View Post
    Thanks, John!
    I have a feeling the first disc to hit my player will be CD12-Let’s Make A Hit Waxing.
    It's great. But honestly, I've been digging on all the session reels (though I had them already, since I'm writing about them)...
    John Kelman
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    Member Garyhead's Avatar
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    This release had a street date of 10/23/2020.....Anyone receive their copy yet? Or a shipping notification? The DGM site states no delays.
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    Banned Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garyhead View Post
    This release had a street date of 10/23/2020.....Anyone receive their copy yet? Or a shipping notification? The DGM site states no delays.
    It was announced by e-mail that it was delayed to the 30th on the 12th, and then the 6th of Nov. on Oct. 20th.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Garyhead View Post
    This release had a street date of 10/23/2020.....Anyone receive their copy yet? Or a shipping notification? The DGM site states no delays.
    It has been pushed back, last I heard, to 11/6. The pandemic is, unfortunately, causing unpredictable manufacturing delays, especially with these kinds of very specialist boxer sets. This isn't the only box where I've seen such delays. But I believe 11/6 is pretty solid. I've been reviewing digital promos, so actually had to do it without hearing the high res stuff (though I did have the session discs as 24/44.1 downloads, the Blu Rays include most content at 24/192, barring the GG&F stuff and the Chesterfield live show, which are 24/192. My detailed album notes explain such things, along with, where possible, the sources of the various material.
    John Kelman
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    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkelman View Post
    Iespecially with these kinds of very specialist boxer sets.
    Each set includes a pair of Fripp's boxers. No wonder it's delayed.
    New album THE HIPCRIME VOCAB available now!
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    "Ide o zmes prog rocku, cosmic music, electronic music a classical music. Prekvapivá a dosť divoká hudobná jazda je vo výslednom efekte znamenitá." - Martin Slávik

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    Member Guitarplyrjvb's Avatar
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    How many of these things do they really expect to sell @ $195 + shipping? Looks like a lot of cassette-sourced stuff, reissues of previously available material and a couple of CD's worth of studio noodling. I can't imagine going through all of this. It just seems like a loser from a business perspective. All this IMHO, of course.

  19. #19
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitarplyrjvb View Post
    Looks like a lot of cassette-sourced stuff, reissues of previously available material and a couple of CD's worth of studio noodling. I can't imagine going through all of this.
    I've bought every one of the previous jumbo KC box sets, and I hate to stop now, but I'm having a hard time working up the enthusiasm to pull the trigger on this one. Between the ItCotCK boxset and Epitaph, plus the KCCC releases and DGM downloads, not to mention Cheerful Insanity and Brondesbury Road, how much of this haven't they already sold me? Yeah, yeah, it's all in the best remastered quality ever, really we mean it this time...but there's that old saying about polishing Richards. And the prospect of a Steven Wilson re-remix...I don't know whether to laugh or cry. I do want to hear Let's Make a Hit Waxing...but I'm not sure I want to shell out for the whole box to get it. And honestly...will I want to hear it twice?
    New album THE HIPCRIME VOCAB available now!
    https://michaelpdawson.bandcamp.com
    "Ide o zmes prog rocku, cosmic music, electronic music a classical music. Prekvapivá a dosť divoká hudobná jazda je vo výslednom efekte znamenitá." - Martin Slávik

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    Banned Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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    I never picked up the original Court box, or any release beyond my old vinyl and the original CD from 80-something, so I'm not passing this up.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave (in MA) View Post
    I never picked up the original Court box, or any release beyond my old vinyl and the original CD from 80-something, so I'm not passing this up.
    You'll be happy that you did, Dave! I'm assuming you've seen my review, published today?
    John Kelman
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  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Triscuits View Post
    I've bought every one of the previous jumbo KC box sets, and I hate to stop now, but I'm having a hard time working up the enthusiasm to pull the trigger on this one. Between the ItCotCK boxset and Epitaph, plus the KCCC releases and DGM downloads, not to mention Cheerful Insanity and Brondesbury Road, how much of this haven't they already sold me? Yeah, yeah, it's all in the best remastered quality ever, really we mean it this time...but there's that old saying about polishing Richards. And the prospect of a Steven Wilson re-remix...I don't know whether to laugh or cry. I do want to hear Let's Make a Hit Waxing...but I'm not sure I want to shell out for the whole box to get it. And honestly...will I want to hear it twice?
    I try to provide a reason, [uel= https://www.allaboutjazz.com/the-com...-recordings]in my review[/url], why this box, collecting everything together as it does, paints a picture not previously seen. Yes, you could try to recreate what this box unveils by collecting all your previous material together into something resembling this box set's curation, but it wouldn't be the same. And with David Singleton's "icing on the cake" studio disc "Let's Make a Hit, Waxing," there's so much in the box for those who want to really get just how remarkable a band Crimson Mark I was, especially over a period of just 335 days, 70 gigs and one masterpiece of an album. And, of course Sid Smith does a bang up job with the liners.

    Just my thoughts.

    I still think this box set is worth it.
    John Kelman
    Senior Contributor, All About Jazz since 2004
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  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Guitarplyrjvb View Post
    How many of these things do they really expect to sell @ $195 + shipping? Looks like a lot of cassette-sourced stuff, reissues of previously available material and a couple of CD's worth of studio noodling. I can't imagine going through all of this. It just seems like a loser from a business perspective. All this IMHO, of course.
    Actually, very little cassette sourced stuff or, rather, audience sourced material. Hyde Park, Marquee and Plumpton still sound like bootlegs, but Chesterfield (also coming in high res on Blu ray), the BBC and Fillmore East and West are very listenable. The session reels are,mbarring one early Morgan Studio track, sourced from original multi-tracks so sound fantastic. And "a couple CDs of studio"? Try six - seven of you include Singleton's fly on the wall "Let's Make a Hit, Waxing" disc. All told, well over seven hours of session material, which is no small amount.

    I've been liatenimg to this stuff for over a month (largely to the exclusion of all else, at least for 5-6 hours per day) as i prep for the review that was published this morning ... and, truth be told, I never got tired of it.
    John Kelman
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  24. #24
    Member Guitarplyrjvb's Avatar
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    6 CD's (CD's 1-6 sourced from cassettes)
    4 CD's of original album reissues in various remaster/remix bonus etc.
    6 CD's of the sessions for the album.

    That's 16 CD's worth of 1 album, the sessions to make it, and cassette tapes of various performances.

    The DVD's, BluRays and DVD-A (barely anybody can play DVD-A's!) duplicate much of the above.

    I just think it's nuts to release this stuff for the few people that will go for it. I like the album and all, but geez. This is overkill.
    Last edited by Guitarplyrjvb; 4 Weeks Ago at 07:27 PM.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Guitarplyrjvb View Post
    6 CD's (CD's 1-6 sourced from cassettes)
    4 CD's of original album reissues in various remaster/remix bonus etc.
    6 CD's of the sessions for the album.
    First, four of the seven live discs "from cassette" are from soundboard cassettes. That's a huge difference to a guy in the audience holding a microphone up.

    Second, it's actually seven CDs of session material, as there's the "Let's Make a Hit Waxing" disc. Yes, it comes from those six discs, but between the sequencing, choice and excerpts of takes, Singleton sometimes mixing things differently on that "fly on the wall" disc, and some spoken word material that has been successfully boosted into audible range, it really is seven discs in terms of the revelations each one holds. Believe me, even if that 7th disc is sourced from the first 6 discs, it really is a completely different experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guitarplyrjvb View Post
    That's 6 CD's worth of 1 album, the sessions to make it, and cassette tapes of various performances.
    I"m sorry, but that is a major over-simplification, with all due respect, and for someone who may not have heard the majority of this music (or you might have, perhaps?').

    If you have the interest and inclination to read my article (!), then you'll learn that it's multiple takes that reveal the process of making an album, from minor things that ultimately are more significant than you might think (I write about a few, as an example), to more dramatic evolutions that demonstrate just how this band, in a relatively short time, took five compositions and shaped them into the album we know and (hopefully) love.

    Again, the cassette tapes vary in quality. The first three shows are the lowest quality, bootleg for sure. But the two-CD Chesterfield show, along with the Fillmore East and West shows, are all soundboard recordings albeit, yes, on cassette, and are plenty listenable, enough that I'd absolutely suggest people will play them more than once. And even Hyde Park, The Marquee and Plumpton are still of a quality that you can hear everything you need to hear in order to compare and contrast with the other three venues. Only "Trees" is the only real slog to get through..but it's worth it, at least once, for theirs its clearly stated archival purpose, as you can hear how one long song ultimately breaks up into something that would end up on McDonald and Giles (Island), 18 months or so later in 1971, and "A Man, A City," played by Crimson Mark I before being honed further into "Pictures of a City," which would appear on In the Wake of Poseidon, just seven months after ITCOTCK.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guitarplyrjvb View Post
    The DVD's, BluRays and DVD-A (barely anybody can play DVD-A's!) duplicate much of the above.
    Yes, but as with previous box sets, largely in higher resolutions, whic may not matter to you, but do to some of us. My OPPO UDP-205 can play DVD-A, and regular DVD players, as I understand it, can play the discs...they just can't take advantage of better resolution Of DVD-A (I could be mistaken, but I believe I'm correct). The BR discs are best as they provide uncompressed music of higher resolutions (in the case of GG&F and Chestefield, 24/192. The balance of the music is 24/9 (stereo, I'm talking), barring the four Stormy Mundy mixes, which are 16/48 on both CD and DVD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guitarplyrjvb View Post
    I just think it's nuts to release this stuff for the few people that will go for it. I like the album and all, but geez. This is overkill.
    Again, no disrespect intended, but you've not heard all of this material have you? If not, how can you judge it. Again, I chose not to re-review the three reissues that have been released since 2095 as I've already covered them in reasonable depth. So I focus on KC MK I as a major improvising unit, and how the band managed to make a masterpiece. My article tries, as a dovetail with Singleton's "fly on the wall" disc, to articulate, for those with no experience in a recording studios, at least some of the things that are important in making an album, I include discussion about things like time (ie, keeping "good time" in terms of performance), feel, vision, and much more.

    If you have the time and inclination, I'd humbly suggest reading my review of the box. The purpose of my review are always to give readers as much detail as possible about a release, so that they can make an informed decision as to whether or not the box would be of interest to them. I do humbly suggest that, without the information you can get in my review or others who cover the set, and with other but a reductionist description of what's in the box, it's not really possible to make a properly informed decision.

    Don't get me wrong: you may not give a hoot, not one enough to convince you to even read my review, and that's absolutely fine, of course! However, you need to know that the way you have reduced the box set down is not accurate and is, in fact, misleading. So, whether or not you're interested, hopefully this response at least clarifies things for you, so you know what this box set really is about.

    As for whether or not it's overkill? Whether or not there's a market out there for this box? Sales will settle those questions, one way or another. But my, wth respect to folks who have responded to my review here, on other forums, across various groups on Facebook and other social media portals? I have no idea what the numbers are, but there certainly appears to be a fair bit of both interest and excitement about this box set.

    Cheers!
    John
    Last edited by jkelman; 4 Weeks Ago at 09:11 PM.
    John Kelman
    Senior Contributor, All About Jazz since 2004
    Freelance writer/photographer

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