AAJ Album Info: King Crimson 1969 Box Detailed Track & Personnel Listing

[Dave (in MA)]

You'll be happy that you did, Dave! I'm assuming you've seen my review, published today?

I'll check it out once the box shows up. Don't want to spoil it.

[jkelman]

I'll check it out once the box shows up. Don't want to spoil it.

Fair enough....hope you enjoy when....

[tallliman]

Wonderful review. I'm passing on this box as I'm not sure I'll have the time to get through all the studio sessions. I know ill be fascinated by it all but will pass.

[Guitarplyrjvb]

I've been liatenimg to this stuff for over a month (largely to the exclusion of all else, at least for 5-6 hours per day) as i prep for the review that was published this morning ... and, truth be told, I never got tired of it.

You're right. I haven't heard any of this material other than the original record, which I like a lot. There is no way I would invest the time you have to get through this stuff. I consider myself a fan. I think I have every Crimson studio offering except Islands and even sprung for the Great Deceiver box. I've also even gotten a few remastered editions of albums to replace worn out vinyl. However, I'm not enough of a fan to even consider getting this. I would really love to know how sales of this go. It just seems like a bad business decision given how savvy DGM is. They sure know more about the demand for something like this than I do. It's great that it's available for those who want such a deep dive. I just can't imagine there's many of them.

Just a question for those of you, like me, who have the Great Deceiver box. How many times have you listened to that? Me? I've listened to it maybe 3 times over the years. You really have to be in the mood for it and you have to digest it in chunks. Nice to have, but given the wide breadth of KC's studio output, I find that my time is better invested by sweeping over their career rather than getting down to the individual atoms of each phase of it.

I do realize that this is just me. Others may find these boxes absolutely essential.

Your review, John, is very nice and informative, I must add.

[jkelman]

Wonderful review. I'm passing on this box as I'm not sure I'll have the time to get through all the studio sessions. I know ill be fascinated by it all but will pass.

You're right. I haven't heard any of this material other than the original record, which I like a lot. There is no way I would invest the time you have to get through this stuff. I consider myself a fan. I think I have every Crimson studio offering except Islands and even sprung for the Great Deceiver box. I've also even gotten a few remastered editions of albums to replace worn out vinyl. However, I'm not enough of a fan to even consider getting this. I would really love to know how sales of this go. It just seems like a bad business decision given how savvy DGM is. They sure know more about the demand for something like this than I do. It's great that it's available for those who want such a deep dive. I just can't imagine there's many of them.

Just a question for those of you, like me, who have the Great Deceiver box. How many times have you listened to that? Me? I've listened to it maybe 3 times over the years. You really have to be in the mood for it and you have to digest it in chunks. Nice to have, but given the wide breadth of KC's studio output, I find that my time is better invested by sweeping over their career rather than getting down to the individual atoms of each phase of it.

I do realize that this is just me. Others may find these boxes absolutely essential.

Your review, John, is very nice and informative, I must add.

Thanks, as ever, to both of you for the kind words on the writing.

I do want to be clear about something: despite my own enthusiasm for the set, and my knowledge that there, indeed, will be others who'll interested enough to grab the set, with every box set I've also absolutely known they're not for everyone. No box is. One of my writing mentors, a guy in his late '70s whose a great friend as well, always shakes his head when I tell him things like "I just got the Prince Sign 'o the Times box" (which is, BTW, fabulous). But he knows I'm the guy to which these things are aimed (and also, to be clear, I don't but every super deluxe, mammoth box set...my bank account couldn't handle it!),,so just accepts it as a fact of life.

Just as I accept that folks like you are just not that interested, or willing to part with the kind of money or time required to invest.

[dfan]

]Just a question for those of you, like me, who have the Great Deceiver box. How many times have you listened to that? Me? I've listened to it maybe 3 times over the years. You really have to be in the mood for it and you have to digest it in chunks. Nice to have, but given the wide breadth of KC's studio output, I find that my time is better invested by sweeping over their career rather than getting down to the individual atoms of each phase of it.

I'm guessing I've listened to the complete Great Deceiver set at least 20 times. To me it really is a (very big) album that can profitably be listened to as a unit.

I also have all of the big boxes (sigh), which to me are more like references. I have listened to everything in them once or twice, but when I return it will be to dip in and sample.

[Guitarplyrjvb]

^^ I guess I prefer the "finished" product where Fripp culled the best from these tapes to make albums like Starless and Bible Black and USA. I enjoyed the Great Deceiver, but I don't think I'll log 20 listens in my lifetime. I sort of view it like you view the big boxes, as a reference. It's undeniably good, though.

[JKL2000]

My box is arriving today from Burning Shed. Looking forward to having something of nicer physical quality than the first ITCOKC box. I actually still need to Read John’s review, which I’ll do today.

[PixelDelirium]

Just ordered mine from Laser's Edge. Good price too (especially considering the shipping cost from Burning Shed). I've finally learned to wait and not preorder these things. Unfortunately, there can't be many of these KC boxes sets left. Better late than never I suppose...

[syncopatico]

But the two-CD Chesterfield show, along with the Fillmore East and West shows, are all soundboard recordings albeit, yes, on cassette, and are plenty listenable, enough that I'd absolutely suggest people will play them more than once.

The Chesterfield Jazz Club recording is a (mono) audience recording.

[Dave (in MA)]

The Chesterfield Jazz Club recording is a (mono) audience recording.

Which makes its inclusion as a hi-res recording on the BluRay pretty hilarious.

[jkelman]

The Chesterfield Jazz Club recording is a (mono) audience recording.

It's actually a little vague in the listing: "Newly transferred from original source cassette," as opposed to, say, the Marquee, which is listed as "Taken from an audience cassette bootleg." So you can, I hope, understand my cofusion, as the band was willing to ID audience recordings, so why not do so with Chesterfield?

So, my take is that Chesterfield could be an audience recording or it could be a soundboard tape. I didn't see anything to clarify further in (admittedly an early version of) the liners that I was given to work with (and I'm still waiting on my "real" box to arrive...maybe this week...), so I worked with what I had.

What I will say is this: if it is an audience recording, it's a damn fine one, because compared to the others, it's quite possibly th best sounding live set in the box, and I'm looking forward to hearing it in high res to determine if it sounds any better than the CD quality version I had to work with.

[calyx]

According to the liners in the box, Robert Fripp was given a copy of the recording by the taper in 1975. That copy was the source of the Epitaph version. More recently, the original cassette was given a fresh transfer, and this is what we now get to hear. I would say it's a very good audience recording for 1969. And a great performance - when I interviewed Mike Giles in 1997 I told him I thought Chesterfield was the superior performance, he said that might be due to being an audience rather than more clinical-sounding soundboard recording, but I think it's outstanding regardless of that.

[Rajaz]

Reading John's review, he says about Crimson's freedom to pick and choose a label: "It also meant that the band, rather than conventionally signing with a label, was able to arrange licensing deals that kept ownership of its music within the band and management."

That seems confusing and misleading. Fripp spent years of litigations and court battles with EG records on claiming his ownership of the band's licensing. When he finally succeeded, he was able to release all this material in DGM's massive box sets like this last one.

Nice and very detailed review BTW, but I'm still not convinced to shell out such a large sum for something that I may never listened to the whole thing.
I still have not gone through listening to the whole Heaven & Earth and Thrak box sets, phew!

Greetings from Halifax to Ottawa!

[jkelman]

Reading John's review, he says about Crimson's freedom to pick and choose a label: "It also meant that the band, rather than conventionally signing with a label, was able to arrange licensing deals that kept ownership of its music within the band and management."

That seems confusing and misleading. Fripp spent years of litigations and court battles with EG records on claiming his ownership of the band's licensing. When he finally succeeded, he was able to release all this material in DGM's massive box sets like this last one.

Sorry for the late reply, I've been kinda busy

The key was band AND management. And that we don't know how subsequent albums were contracted or funded. Also, what happened in subsequent years as labels merged and were bought out, and what percentage of ownership EG had (I've no idea). Crimson/Fripp may have had partial ownership, but as the album(s) went from one label to the next, rights and ownership were not necessarily static.

What my comment meant was that, unlike most bands at the time, Crimson was also rather shrewd in business, amd likely made more per unit sold than many of their peers. What happened in the ensuing years? I need to go back to Panegyric head Declan Colgan's extraordinary article in the liners to the 40th anniversary edition of the ITCOTCK box, as it was a terrific summation of the trials, tribulations and shifts in the record industry over those 40 years. I'd hoped it would be reprinted in the now box (I tried to get them to let me publish it at all about jazz at the time, given how limited it was, but understandably no dice), but it wasn't, sadly. But my recollection is it addresses this to some extent. And it's the onlŷ reason, now that my copy of the 1969 box has finallŷ arrived, that I'll be keeping the 40th box.

But I can understand whŷ you might think this is a confusing or, even, misleading statement. In a nutshell: things were fluid and, as I understand it, rights/ownership changed over time, and I don't believe that Fripp had the same ability to maintain ownership with future Crimson records. And his regaining rights/ownership means that members, artists and other participants, past amd present, now get properly compensated for the music DGM (later, Panegyric) has released. That wouldn't have happened otherwise.

Nice and very detailed review BTW, but I'm still not convinced to shell out such a large sum for something that I may never listened to the whole thing.
I still have not gone through listening to the whole Heaven & Earth and Thrak box sets, phew!

Greetings from Halifax to Ottawa!

Thanks...and Back at ya! No, this box isn't for everyone, but for folks like me who love the process as much as the end result, this was a terrific set, add all the live shows showing how, in such a short time, the band truly evolved, and it was one I had to cover (well, now that I'm working on the Crimson book, everything is on the table for me!). But thanks for the kind words.

So, how's winter treating you out east so far this year?

[Rajaz]

Thanks...and Back at ya! No, this box isn't for everyone, but for folks like me who love the process as much as the end result, this was a terrific set, add all the live shows showing how, in such a short time, the band truly evolved, and it was one I had to cover (well, now that I'm working on the Crimson book, everything is on the table for me!). But thanks for the kind words.

So, how's winter treating you out east so far this year?

Not bad at all, so far we've only had one snowfall and that only lasted not even 48 hours on the ground. Our average temps have ranged from -1C to +14C. Being next to the ocean helps to keep it down.
Cheers!

[jkelman]

Not bad at all, so far we've only had one snowfall and that only lasted not even 48 hours on the ground. Our average temps have ranged from -1C to +14C. Being next to the ocean helps to keep it down.
Cheers!

I am extremely jealous!

[Rajaz]

I am extremely jealous!

Well, last week's nor'easter left 1 meter of snow on the ground but today's maximum +8C will melt most of it ;-)


Back to Crimson theme on this thread, a quick question:

Did you review the - King Crimson - Larks' Tongues In Aspic (13CD/DVD-A/Bluray Box Set)?

If yes, I would like to read it.
Thanks

[sphinx]

Here's the link to the review

https://www.allaboutjazz.com/larks-t...ary-series-box

[Rajaz]

Here's the link to the review

https://www.allaboutjazz.com/larks-t...ary-series-box

Thanks.
Started reading it and I wonder: has Fripp ever acknowledged your extensive reviews (mostly positive) and in-depth knowledge of King Crimson history?

He should, you are the quintessential King Crimson narrator and curator.

[polmico]

^That honor likely has to go to Sid Smith, but Jon’s reviews are indeed excellent. When I’m on the fence— as I was with this box—it’s the AAJ review that inevitably forces my hand (and never to my regret).