Fall of the CD accelerating?

[jkelman]

Late to the discussion, but for what it's worth....

I've got a stupid number of albums on CD, SACD, Blu Ray Pure Audio, DVD-A, and high res downloads. I've lost count but I suspect, between my collection and my wife's (she's into Baroque and other music roughly before and after that era, and has amassed quite the collection) we've gotta have 10-12,000 albums or so.

We play our music on the living room rig (OPPO UDP-205, Leema Tucana II Amp, Tetra 333 stack and Apple TV 4K to allow,streaming from my Mac in the office). Hanging off the Mac, in the office, is an OPPO HA-2 headphone Amp/DAC, which serves a 2.1 Paradigm Millenial set of powered speakers, so I can get pretty good sound in the office also, which is soundproofed from the rest of the apartment.

Last, we both have good quality (medium level, but still very good) digital audio players for private personal listening. Rio has Cayin N5IIS, and my main DAP is a relatively new FiiO M11. We also have two spare Opus DAPS, one where the balanced out isn't working, and both with some kinds of occasional hiccups, even if most often they work ok. But they're good as spares and, between a total of 6 microSD card slots across the FiiO and two Opus DAPs that hold up to 1 or 2Tb cards, that allows for a pretty sizeable chunk of my collection available on them (CD quality ALAC at least, or high res ALAC at best). I've actually got enough microSD cards, ranging anywhere from 200Gb to 1Tb in capacity, that I have our entire collective music library (approaching 9Tb) stored, in an organised fashion, across them. So I can have a LOT of music with me in bed and whenever I go out. For me, portability is as important as having a really high end home system, as if I end up travelling again, being able to have any and all Musicien might need to have with me is very important.

To wrap the gear part, Rio has a pair of Shure SE215 in ear monitors, but with a balanced cable for better sound. I use a pair of west one UM 30 PRO IEMs, also with a balanced cable, and also have a pair of OPPO PM-3 Planar Magnetic cans, also with a balanced cable.

But I refuse to listen to MP3. When you listen to music as many hours a day as I do, even if 320k MP3 is pretty okay, I find MP3 do tire my ears over the course of a day, whereas my collection, largely ALAC, never does.

As for which medium I prefer? I gave up on vinyl years ago, for the most part for space reasons. I still but plenty of CDs, especially older OOP tiles, but also contemporary releases. I prefer to but albums in high res from places like ProStudioMasters or ideally BandCamp, but if they aren't available in high res then I'll often buy the CD, though I must say I have bought quite a few digital albums, cd quality, from BandCamp as well.

I still don't see CDS disappearing entirely, if for no other reason, now that artists are beginning to get back out on the road, I truly believe that nobody wants to go to a merch table, plop down $15 or $20 and get a download card. No, I think most folks want to get something they can hold in their hands, whether it's a CD or vinyl.but given the price of vinyl, I still think people aren't more prone to buy a CD. I know I am.

So, for me, a mix of media, with an eye to high resolution hard or soft format if available AND if they've been mastered by engineers I come to trust. High res media like SACD is great, but the medium matters not the album was (a) poorly recorded (think Soft Machine Third), (b) poorly mixed and/or mastered originally, or (c) poorly mastered for the medium at hand. And different engineers really does matter. With no disrespect intended to Steve Hoffmann, who is typically great, but I had his Analogue Productions SACD of Jeff Beck's Truth, and it sounded great. But I recently picked up Shawn Britton's version of the same album on Mobile Fidelity, and intentionally so as I wanted to compare the album as mastered for SACD by two very good engineers, and I have to say I prefer Britton's master. A little less bright, considerably more heft. Not that Hoffman's is bad, it's very, very good. But I think it comes down to personal preferences in a situation like this, and for my ears Britton's master is just that extra bit more satisfying. But the Hoffman is great, even though I'll be getting rid of it since I prefer the Britton.

But it was an interesting experience, to get the opportunity to compare two masters (both from original master tapes, BTW), of an album I love, and both done by engineers I respect. I know I'm moving away from the thread's main purpose, but to bring it back....

...I still have plenty of interest in CD (even thoug I got a cd quality downloadable advance of the Lennon/Plastic Ono Band box, complete with watermarked pdf or the book, I still bought the real box. Excessive, perhaps, but it means everything on the 6 CDs in high res on the two Blu Rays (and even more material, to boot!), and it's a nice box, sized to match the Imagine box.

I buy some reissues in download high res only, like the recent CSN&Y Déjà Vu set, as I didn't want vinyl and was ok not getting the booklet. But the upcoming Chicago Complete Carnegie Häll box, even though it'll be available in high res (and who knows, if it's reasonable I might also buy the high res downloads). OTOH, the upcoming 50th Anniversary Grateful Dead Skull & Roses (expanded) I've preordered in high res from dead.net, and Garcialive Vol. 16, as they come with a PDF of the booklet.

So it all depends, is hat I guess I'm saying. But I still have a place for CDs chez Kelman, and while the majors may be trying to steer fans away from hare media barring deluxe box sets, there are too many small/indie artists and/or labels who continue to sell CDs...and rarely sell vinyl because of the high cost to manufacture, and also the challenge of finding a plant who'll manufacture them in a reasonable timeframe..

Ok, I'll stop now 😳

[Fracktured]

While I can understand the vinyl release I can’t understand at all the cassette release. I always recorded my records onto cassette to help preserve them and to be able to play them in my car but the factory cassettes for the most part sucked in sound and quality. If you want portability then go with the download on an MP3 player or a cd. Releasing music on cassettes make no sense unless you drive a car without any modern technology outside of cassette and that barely makes any sense.

[progmatist]

^^ I found a way to make cassettes sound awesome. For music recorded in the 90s through early 200s, cassettes are the closest thing to a vinyl and/or Hi-Res version. First, I record them in 24/96 Hi-Res. Then I use the Izotope RX8 Spectral Denoise module to free the music from the tape hiss. Finally, I use the Izotope Ozone 9 Match EQ module to accurately undo the Dolby B noise reduction. In my experience, engaging the Dolby B during playback will always muffle and muddy the sound.

I set up the Match EQ as follows: I recorded pink noise to a cassette with the Dolby B engaged. I played back and captured the pink noise with Dolby disengaged. Using an audio spectrum analyzer, I visually set up Match EQ so the pink noise captured from the cassette most closely matches the original pink noise. Finally, I saved those settings as a preset, which I quickly reload for every cassette I record.

[Trane]

While I can understand the vinyl release I can’t understand at all the cassette release. I always recorded my records onto cassette to help preserve them and to be able to play them in my car but the factory cassettes for the most part sucked in sound and quality. If you want portability then go with the download on an MP3 player or a cd. Releasing music on cassettes make no sense unless you drive a car without any modern technology outside of cassette and that barely makes any sense.

purely stupid hipsterism, consumerism and 80's nostalgia.

If you're not stepping into the cassette trap, you're not hip!!

[JKL2000]

purely stupid hipsterism, consumerism and 80's nostalgia.

If you're not stepping into the cassette trap, you're not hip!!

I think there are some younger musicians and fans who DIDN’T grow up with cassettes who are making and buying them now. I’m not judging, I can see how it’s fun. But did Japanese-made pre-recorded cassettes ever come with obi-strips? Maybe…

[Just Eric]

I think there are some younger musicians and fans who DIDN’T grow up with cassettes who are making and buying them now. I’m not judging, I can see how it’s fun. But did Japanese-made pre-recorded cassettes ever come with obi-strips? Maybe…

I just took a Radio DJ class and the instructor gave a lecture on how crummy cassettes are as physical medium. He rated them last just after the old wax cylinder used in Victrolas. Ok, the victrola part was made up, but he did slam them.

[Digital_Man]

I bought a compact stereo with a cd player during the height of the pandemic in 2020(June to be exact). I have no regrets because I enjoy it. I'm a cd guy until my last day on the planet. I'm even in a facebook group for compact disc enthusiasts. While I do listen to a lot of music online(mostly prog radio and youtube) I was never much into downloads and have never done streaming. I like to have cds as a supplement to online listening for when I feel like listening to a whole album. I try to listen to at least one cd a day (if not more). I'll probably do spotify at some point and I will possibly get back into vinyl at some point too but cds are my personal preference and I don't see that changing.

Anyway, yes, it does seem like a lot of people have stopped buying cds. Imo, it's because a lot of people can't stand the idea of being perceived as out of touch and not with the times. Vinyl albums are cool again so they won't have an issue with buying them but cds are now almost like a dirty secret that some people feel ashamed of. Total bs imo. If something isn't broke why try to fix it? I prefer cds but I won't poo poo those who don't but I don't want to be poo pooed either. Anyway, I'm ok with the fact that cds have become very niche. In fact right now they are sort of like how vinyl was between 1990 and 2010.

I suppose what is mildly disturbing to me is that so many musicians(even prog musicians) have ostensibly bought into the whole cds are dead hype. I have noticed on bandcamp not many prog artists still sell cds or at least far fewer do now.

[Hobo Chang Ba]

purely stupid hipsterism, consumerism and 80's nostalgia.

If you're not stepping into the cassette trap, you're not hip!!

Yeah, exactly. Vinyl got too big for its britches to be 'real' hipster anymore, so they had to go to another medium. So if the CD does collapse, I suppose one day it will be resurrected again, like these last two.

[Trane]

I just took a Radio DJ class and the instructor gave a lecture on how crummy cassettes are as physical medium. He rated them last just after the old wax cylinder used in Victrolas. Ok, the victrola part was made up, but he did slam them.

Mmmhhh!!!... I'd put the old 8-tracks as even much worse than the normal (Phillips-type) cassettes. The problem with pre-recorded cassettes was that they reused old computer magnetic tapes (giving crappy sound) and the little prongs broke easily (sliding pens in between them to rewind tapes didn't help), which made the decks skip in rolling the tape on the head.

Thankfully blank tapes (Maxell) were much better qulity, both sonics and solidity. You could even do open-heart surgery on them.

Yeah, exactly. Vinyl got too big for its britches to be 'real' hipster anymore, so they had to go to another medium. So if the CD does collapse, I suppose one day it will be resurrected again, like these last two.

Yup Hipsterism is always being one step ahead in human stupidity, just for the distinction of being the head idiot.

.

[aith01]

purely stupid hipsterism, consumerism and 80's nostalgia.

If you're not stepping into the cassette trap, you're not hip!!

I know you have an ax to grind here, but it's not as simple as you want to believe it is.

Old technology will always hold some fascination for certain people, especially those who didn't grow up with it. It's a glimpse into the past; some people have a genuine interest in that kind of thing. Who are you to judge?

Yup Hipsterism is always being one step ahead in human stupidity, just for the distinction of being the head idiot.

Come on, man. Give it a rest.

I grew up listening to and recording to cassette tapes before I had a portable CD player, and I still think cassettes are cool (I still have a couple). The fact that music can be stored on something as seemingly mundane as magnetic tape is fascinating to me, even if the audio quality is inferior to other formats. I appreciate the technology behind the format; it's romantic. That does not make me, or anyone else who likes cassette tapes (or vinyl, or CDs), a hipster.

I don't expect you to understand that though.

[Flightwave]

I actually purchased Washed Out's new release "Purple Noon" last year for $9 on cassette. I have a 20 year old car and although I often use the cassette port / adapter to listen to my Iphone music, I still pop in a tape or two here and there. The album sounds great and I listen to that tape here at home too on the stereo. Now it's the only new tape I've purchased over the past decade (all the rest of mine are ages old), but I can understand the love for them.

I have my originals I purchased ages back (Genesis, Marillion, Peter Gabriel, etc.) to listen to in the car sometimes, but never purchase used tapes like I would a used CD / used vinyl.

[Trane]

I know you have an ax to grind here, but it's not as simple as you want to believe it is.

Old technology will always hold some fascination for certain people, especially those who didn't grow up with it. It's a glimpse into the past; some people have a genuine interest in that kind of thing. Who are you to judge?

Oh, I understand that no problems...
It's just that making it a hype is plain dumb... especially when knowing that producing new cassettes (magnetic tapes are one of the must environmental un-friendly matter) are near-impossible to recycle with a big environmental cost. The European commission tried to ban manufacture & sales on its grounds because of that. I think they succeeded in the first case, but not the second (buying on the web in Tanzania or Vietnam - for ex - would have to become illegal).



I grew up listening to and recording to cassette tapes before I had a portable CD player, and I still think cassettes are cool (I still have a couple). The fact that music can be stored on something as seemingly mundane as magnetic tape is fascinating to me, even if the audio quality is inferior to other formats. I appreciate the technology behind the format; it's romantic. That does not make me, or anyone else who likes cassette tapes (or vinyl, or CDs), a hipster.

I don't expect you to understand that though.

Again you're undersetimating me. I understand perfectly your argument, but it doesn't mean I have to appreciate little twirps who make it fad or trend and exclude people because they wan,t to be ahead in pure consumerism.

hipipister.png


BTW...
I still have all of my Maxell XL-IIS home-recorded (I drove a late 90's Citroen Xantia in 07/08 and they were quite useful).

Did you buy cassettes (pre-recorded or blank) of late (last8/9 years)? Because if you haven't, I don't know why You'd feel concerned

[progmatist]

The problem with pre-recorded cassettes was that they reused old computer magnetic tapes (giving crappy sound)........

That was certainly true in the 70s. By the mid 80s, they were of much higher quality. Many used chromium dioxide tape.

[JKL2000]

I enjoy the "ritual" of the cassette.

[Digital_Man]

I enjoy the "ritual" of the cassette.

Even when the track "ritual" is split up on two sides on the cassette version of Yesshows?

[moecurlythanu]

I enjoy the "ritual" of the cassette.

Does it involve chicken blood?

[Just Eric]

Mmmhhh!!!... I'd put the old 8-tracks as even much worse than the normal (Phillips-type) cassettes. The problem with pre-recorded cassettes was that they reused old computer magnetic tapes (giving crappy sound) and the little prongs broke easily (sliding pens in between them to rewind tapes didn't help), which made the decks skip in rolling the tape on the head.

His opinion was based on the medium itself, the tape. When a 2-sided album that's 2 sets of data on a tiny tape - bleed through, etc. I could see 8-track with similar issues. I am not a tape person, but still do buy too much vinyl and too many CD's than my budget will allow.

[arturs]

That was certainly true in the 70s. By the mid 80s, they were of much higher quality. Many used chromium dioxide tape.

I was buying cassette tapes well into the 90s. Particularly a lot of Hannibal/Ryko world music tapes. My CD player broke a couple of years ago and I was playing tapes exclusively for a few months. I was amazed how good the tapes from the 90s still sound.

[soundsweird]

There was a period in the late 80's, when I hadn't switched to CD's yet, that I bought quite a few cassettes. A lot of small labels putting out experimental, electronic and New Age stuff were not available on vinyl. As I bought less loud rock and more atmospheric stuff, cassettes appealed to me since there were no pops, tics and scratches, the sound quality seemed good and there was less cleaning involved (you still had to clean the tape heads occasionally). However, once I started buying CD's and compared the sound quality of a particular CD with the same album on cassette, the cassette came across as very thin-sounding. I still have some cassettes that were never released on CD.

[JKL2000]

Does it involve chicken blood?

I don't know, I'm not a Fundamentalist. A pencil is as far as I go, or went.

[Trane]

Magnetic tapes could be quite good quality in the 70's for recording music... Reel to Reel decks were already seriously good already in the 70's.
But what a pain to use, though.... NOT user-friendly.

I enjoy the "ritual" of the cassette.

Not enough!!!

To be a hipster, you must declare spiritual enlightenment. 341287Gniekgniek.gif

Does it involve chicken blood?

Sadly not!! Most of the Hipster declare themselves Vegan (that means Vegenocide)siffle.gif

That was certainly true in the 70s. By the mid 80s, they were of much higher quality. Many used chromium dioxide tape.

Partly true, since pre-recorded cassette had to be sturdier mechanically as well, since they spend a lot of time exposed to external use (Walkman, ghetto blasters, etc...) which weren't exactly gentle of the mechanics. Cassette car stereos also became gentler, but we lost tapes by the dozens in the 80's (except for Max(w)ell, which we used until the last drop)

[progmatist]

His opinion was based on the medium itself, the tape. When a 2-sided album that's 2 sets of data on a tiny tape - bleed through, etc. I could see 8-track with similar issues. I am not a tape person, but still do buy too much vinyl and too many CD's than my budget will allow.

Track bleed through is/was a problem with multi-track tape recorders as well. I can't count how many vinyl records I've heard which start with a faint version of the intro, followed by a repeated, full volume version of the intro. Most people miss this, but when capturing a noise sample for noise removal software, it sticks out like a sore thumb.

Partly true, since pre-recorded cassette had to be sturdier mechanically as well, since they spend a lot of time exposed to external use (Walkman, ghetto blasters, etc...) which weren't exactly gentle of the mechanics. Cassette car stereos also became gentler, but we lost tapes by the dozens in the 80's (except for Max(w)ell, which we used until the last drop)

Back in the day, I made copies of my prerecorded cassettes for the car. Not only did we have to contend with the mechanical issues, but the Arizona heat as well.

[aith01]

I don't know why You'd feel concerned

Because of this:

purely stupid hipsterism, consumerism and 80's nostalgia.

[...]

Yup Hipsterism is always being one step ahead in human stupidity, just for the distinction of being the head idiot.

You over-simplify the facts (not just here, but on most topics). Criticizing "hipsters" for 'excluding people', but then everyone who's into collecting this retro stuff you throw into the same bucket and label them as "hipsters" (who are all idiots, apparently). That seems hypocritical to me, notwithstanding your vendetta against hipsters.

[JKL2000]

Because of this:




You over-simplify the facts (not just here, but on most topics). Criticizing "hipsters" for 'excluding people', but then everyone who's into collecting this retro stuff you throw into the same bucket and label them as "hipsters" (who are all idiots, apparently). That seems hypocritical to me, notwithstanding your vendetta against hipsters.

My theory is that “hipsters” is just the term old fogies use for younger people these days. Like “hippies.” “Oh, they’re all bearded hipsters!”

[moecurlythanu]

My theory is that “hipsters” is just the term old fogies use for younger people these days. Like “hippies.” “Oh, they’re all bearded hipsters!”

Trane isn't an old fogie! He's hip! Just no ster. Stir maybe, but no ster.