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Thread: Fall of the CD accelerating?

  1. #101
    Member dropforge's Avatar
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  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    This. Including your occasional nostalgia for your past experiences.

    From my perspective, a life changing moment for me was around 2008, getting an iPod and the thought of also being able to store large amounts of my collection on a hard drive. I spent several months that year ripping about 3,000 CDs. And since about 2012 or so, I stopped playing CDs except for in the car and for the “first play”. And by 2014, no longer in the car. Now it’s purely the backup storage receptacle.

    The reality is, once you amass thousands of albums, the primary function of the vast majority of them is to collect dust.
    Your experience is similar to mine actually. In 2004 my parents bought me a 20GB iPod as a belated (by a couple years) graduation present. It completely changed the way I listened to music. Before if I wanted portable music I had to either take my little battery powered CD player. Having almost all of my music available on a single device was incredible, and I took that thing everywhere with me -- to work, to friends' houses, on trips, etc.

    It was before aux inputs were very common in cars (and Bluetooth was still in its early stages), so if I was driving anywhere I still played CDs in the car. But my time spent listening to music increased drastically when I could carry my entire music collection in my pocket. Like you said, life changing.

    I do still play CDs in the car though, after getting a nice aftermarket disc player for my car a few years ago. My CD collection has grown to such an extent that I'm actually running out of room to store them in my current living space; that's not even counting my vinyl collection... And yet I keep buying them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    For me, the concept of having the collection I grew from the last 35 years at my fingertips has much more value to me personally than the collection itself. Being able to discover, re-discover, compare/contrast, playlist, shuffle, AND take it with me, is absolutely liberating.

    And to fill in the holes, I use Spotify, which I’ve used to create several playlists (classic rock, 80s, ECM, etc.), sample new releases, and get alerted to new music being released by hundreds of artists that I follow. It’s a robust tool that is growing into its own.

    I couldn’t imagine going back.
    Yeah, I know what you mean about it being a liberating thing. Sometimes I'll be someplace and think of an album or song I own but haven't heard in years. Having the ability to listen to it right then and there (before I forget) is invaluable. I also use streaming (Spotify and Apple Music) to sample stuff, explore bands/genres, make playlists, etc. I can't imagine going back either.

    There's also instances where an album is either out of print or unavailable (or only going for insane prices on the second hand market). When that happens, I'm fine with paying for a download. I'd rather be able to hear that music without a physical copy than to never hear it at all. My storage capacity at home is also a factor, since I've already got so many CDs taking up space. Bandcamp offering various audio formats is also a big thing.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    It's a legitimate concern!

    But seriously, I'm humbled anyone likes the stuff we did. It was a labor of love for me, a testimony to my involvement in music, particularly Prog. It's far from a perfect album, but I've never been one to let perfection be the enemy of the good. Which is apparently why I'm a douchebag for liking CDs.

    Cheers!

    Bill
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  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick L. View Post
    #completedouchebag
    Count me in on one of those douchebags

  5. #105
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    Douchebags unite!
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  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Progatron View Post
    Douchebags unite!
    I'm in! Let's do this shit!

  7. #107
    Member dropforge's Avatar
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    Where do I sign up for douchebaggery!?

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by dropforge View Post
    Where do I sign up for douchebaggery!?
    You just be one.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick L. View Post
    You just be one.
    Well, that's easy.

  10. #110
    I don't think any possible 'CD revival' sometime in the future will likely ever reach the level of the vinyl revival. Reason being, a CD sounds (almost?) identical to a 44.1 file of the same recording.

    One of the reasons vinyl has made a resurgence, is due to it sounding different than any digital format, for better or worse (I believe vinyl betters 44.1 in its ability to reproduce soundstage and imaging). So there is that.

    All that being said, I own many CD's, and continue to buy them, because I am buying a lot of avant-garde and contemporary classical, and they are dirt cheap.

    I also would rather buy a CD of a new release, than a download.

    Where I do buy downloads, is also mostly classical, and those are all 24/192 PCM, or better yet, when I can get quad-rate DSD. Nothing sounds like it.
    And if there were a god, I think it very unlikely that he would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence - Russell

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by simon moon View Post

    One of the reasons vinyl has made a resurgence, is due to it sounding different than any digital format, for better or worse (I believe vinyl betters 44.1 in its ability to reproduce soundstage and imaging). So there is that.
    Be realistic, people heard Biden/Harris are going to legalize marijuana and they need something to roll their joints again.
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  12. #112
    Man of repute progmatist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simon moon View Post
    One of the reasons vinyl has made a resurgence, is due to it sounding different than any digital format, for better or worse (I believe vinyl betters 44.1 in its ability to reproduce soundstage and imaging). So there is that.
    Vinyl is also more substantial for those who want a real, rather than imaginary product...which ALL digital formats arguably are. A record has actual sound waves carved into the grooves. One would be hard pressed (pun intended) to make an exact copy of those grooves on anything other than another record.

    Digital is the easiest thing in the world to counterfeit. Back in the days of the computer swap meet, I could walk up to any vendor's table, and pick up any software title. I could know for certain I was holding a counterfeit product, however real it appeared. That was true when software was distributed on floppies, and remained true when it migrated to CD-ROMs. Many audio CDs have been counterfeited. There have been threads on this very forum complaining about Amazon vendors selling counterfeit CDs.

    A vinyl record, on the other hand, CANNOT be faked. The cost of doing so would be so enormous, only a moron would even try. It would be more profitable to strike counterfeit pennies.
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  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by progmatist View Post
    A vinyl record, on the other hand, CANNOT be faked. The cost of doing so would be so enormous, only a moron would even try. It would be more profitable to strike counterfeit pennies.
    I understand the philosophy I think, but then, what would be the reason to copy such a flawed product in the first place? It's just a medium adding its own artefacts in a chain electronic and mechanical machines, bringing the sound from the microphone to the speakers... If I over-interpret the philosophy, would a cassette tape recorded AM transmission from a station playing an AAA vinyl be more genuine than a digital master from the studio, transferred in (maybe in zillions of copies) to other digital media bit by bit?

    The sooner in the chain the music is "imaginized" the closer the output will resemble the input! If 44.1/16 or more detailed encoding is required is another discussion though...
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  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    How is my choice not to pursue formats other than CD dismissive of other's choice to pursue the formats that work for them? It doesn't make sense to you because you don't live in my head, nor likely do you consume music exactly the way I do. That's why I was specifically saying different approaches work for different people, and I was being serious when I said, "good for you" about consuming music the way you want to, for reasons of your own. Either you're misunderstanding the "tone" of what I said (in which case I hope I've clarified), or you just don't like the fact that I refuse to buy music that isn't released on CD.

    To the latter, there's not much I can say. I've been listening to music since the early 1970s and went through one major format change (vinyl to CD). I just don't have the stamina or the interest to go through another one. CDs work for me, I have a lot invested in them, I have my setup set up for how I listen to music, and I like being able to see my collection in front of me to help select music to play. I'm not going to the time, trouble, effort and expense of integrating digital files into that. My limited forays have proven it to be unsatisfying and unnecessary... FOR ME! Others may do as they see fit.

    What doesn't make sense?

    Bill
    What I meant was that it seems dismissive of the music, and the artists who don't (or can't) release it on CD.

    You're right, I did misunderstand your tone when you said "good for you". My apologies for that. Sometimes it's easy to misinterpret the intent behind words when it's just text on the Internet.

    What doesn't make sense to me is the music itself not bringing enough joy to offset the lack of physical media. Especially for things that are out of print or no longer available for affordable prices. In a scenario like that, I can't understand choosing to forego a chance to own and listen to a digital copy of that album if one enjoys the music. I'm not saying it's wrong -- I just don't understand it. But like you said, I don't live in your head. For example, my cousin makes fun of me for still buying music on CD when there are things like Spotify now. But he also mostly listens to music in the car on satellite radio, so... he and I are on very different wavelengths when it comes to listening and to the space music occupies in our lives.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by aith01 View Post
    my cousin makes fun of me for still buying music on CD when there are things like Spotify now. But he also mostly listens to music in the car on satellite radio, so... he and I are on very different wavelengths when it comes to listening and to the space music occupies in our lives.
    Precisely. And that is exactly why I don't buy downloads. They just don't fit how I listen to music. I tried burning them to CDR, and I just wound up with an amorphous stack of CDRs I never played. I tried putting them on a thumb drive, and I never (or only very rarely) put it in my player. Plus, songs that should segue together don't on the thumb drive, and that sucks.

    I don't want to put a lot of time and trouble into making packaging for CDRs, I don't want to sit and rip my CDs (ugh, kill me now), and I don't want to buy a bunch of equipment to be able to play files (which I probably wouldn't play anyway). So, sorry for the artists who won't get my money. But why should I pay for something that has no value to me? It's not a dis at them, it's just simply not how I consume music. That may be hard to understand because you love music and are more open to changing technologies. I'm not. I'm old and I've had it. I'm not going through another conversion. Period. I have plenty of music. I am buying everything I can get my grubby little paws on right now because I suspect the CD won't be around forever. And I'm OK with that. I'll be fine. Everyone will be fine.


  16. #116
    Man of repute progmatist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    I'm old and I've had it. I'm not going through another conversion. Period.
    I myself was extremely slow to adopt the CD. I was still pissed at the obsolescence of the 8-Track tape, then the vinyl record. I was just waiting for a third shoe to drop, and CDs to be phased out. I finally bought my first CD in the late 90s, when I installed a CD-ROM drive in my computer. I could then play them without plunking down a load of cash on a still expensive CD player.
    "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"--Dalai Lama

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by aith01 View Post
    For example, my cousin makes fun of me for still buying music on CD when there are things like Spotify now. But he also mostly listens to music in the car on satellite radio, so... he and I are on very different wavelengths when it comes to listening and to the space music occupies in our lives.
    He's a couple years away from being "all talk radio, only talk radio." One of those.

  18. #118
    Isn't one of the adventages of CD that you can put a nice Magma CD-box on display?

  19. #119
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by progmatist View Post
    A vinyl record, on the other hand, CANNOT be faked. The cost of doing so would be so enormous, only a moron would even try. It would be more profitable to strike counterfeit pennies.
    Are you seriously suggesting that there's no such thing as a counterfeit LP??? I own a Beatles Christmas Album that begs to differ.
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  20. #120
    Man of repute progmatist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Triscuits View Post
    Are you seriously suggesting that there's no such thing as a counterfeit LP??? I own a Beatles Christmas Album that begs to differ.
    Beatles records are of such high value, the economy of counterfeiting is flipped on its head. Going back to my pennies analogy, when it costs the US Mint 2.5 cents to make a penny, it would be absurd to counterfeit one. When a penny is super rare, worth thousands, tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands, then it becomes more than worthwhile to fake.
    Last edited by progmatist; 1 Week Ago at 02:31 PM.
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  21. #121
    Member wiz_d_kidd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    This. Including your occasional nostalgia for your past experiences.

    From my perspective, a life changing moment for me was around 2008, getting an iPod and the thought of also being able to store large amounts of my collection on a hard drive. I spent several months that year ripping about 3,000 CDs. And since about 2012 or so, I stopped playing CDs except for in the car and for the “first play”. And by 2014, no longer in the car. Now it’s purely the backup storage receptacle.

    The reality is, once you amass thousands of albums, the primary function of the vast majority of them is to collect dust.

    For me, the concept of having the collection I grew from the last 35 years at my fingertips has much more value to me personally than the collection itself. Being able to discover, re-discover, compare/contrast, playlist, shuffle, AND take it with me, is absolutely liberating.

    And to fill in the holes, I use Spotify, which I’ve used to create several playlists (classic rock, 80s, ECM, etc.), sample new releases, and get alerted to new music being released by hundreds of artists that I follow. It’s a robust tool that is growing into its own.

    I couldn’t imagine going back.
    I agree about it being LIBERATING. I stopped purchasing physical media years ago, and went exclusively to downloads. Right now I have 510 complete albums on my phone (with room for about 1300 more) - all at 320kbps. I get in the car, push the BT button, and I'm jamming. At home, I push the BT button on the sound system, and I'm jamming. Three-hundred miles at sea on a cruise ship, or 30,000 feet in the air, I pop in the headphones and I'm jamming. Anywhere, anytime, my music library is at my fingertips. That, truly, is liberating, and I will never go back to the ball-and-chain that is physical media. (I don't stream because that requires connectivity, which isn't always available, and recurring monthly expenses, which I don't want to pay for).

  22. #122
    Member nosebone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    This. Including your occasional nostalgia for your past experiences.

    From my perspective, a life changing moment for me was around 2008, getting an iPod and the thought of also being able to store large amounts of my collection on a hard drive. I spent several months that year ripping about 3,000 CDs. And since about 2012 or so, I stopped playing CDs except for in the car and for the “first play”. And by 2014, no longer in the car. Now it’s purely the backup storage receptacle.

    The reality is, once you amass thousands of albums, the primary function of the vast majority of them is to collect dust.

    For me, the concept of having the collection I grew from the last 35 years at my fingertips has much more value to me personally than the collection itself. Being able to discover, re-discover, compare/contrast, playlist, shuffle, AND take it with me, is absolutely liberating.

    And to fill in the holes, I use Spotify, which I’ve used to create several playlists (classic rock, 80s, ECM, etc.), sample new releases, and get alerted to new music being released by hundreds of artists that I follow. It’s a robust tool that is growing into its own.

    I couldn’t imagine going back.
    I'm in the exact same place!

    Bandcamp, Spotify and 60,000 songs ripped into itunes.

    I still do buy vinyl (sparingly) and the occasional CD of my favorite artists.
    no tunes, no dynamics, no nosebone

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