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Thread: Fall of the CD accelerating?

  1. #51
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mascodagama View Post
    You mean because there are millions of people on PE, or it's just us and everyone else died?

    I envisage a post-Apocalyptic scenario where only the prog nuts survived...they were too dweeby to die. We follow our everyman hero as he emerges blinking from his listening room after a ten-day Zappa binge to discover a world in ruins! Consider his desperate struggle for warmth, shelter, food and companionship! And the concept album he's trying to write about it all (on acoustic guitar, because the power's out - he has to hum the Mellotron parts).
    OR....The Prog Nuts survived.....they were Socially Isolated YEARS before the Pandemic wiped humans from the surface of the planet....we follow our everyman hero as he emerges blinking from his basement room of his parents house after a ten-day Zappa binge to discover His World in ruins! Consider his desperate struggle for clean sheets, snacks....someone to pay the utility bills!......oh....why would he search for companionship?
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  3. #53
    I am definitely buying more physical product this year due to Covid boredom I guess. I will download if that’s the only option and I want to support the artist, but I still prefer a physical copy, even if they are mostly accompanied by a download code or are immediately ripped to the hard drive and streamed from there. I have no CD player in the car now, and much listening is via the iPhone to decent headphones or Bluetooth to speakers.

    I will buy vinyl, I think mostly out of nostalgic reasons, it gives me a thrill to go into a shop and leave with an album. On the recent record store day I picked up a couple of Bowie specials, the coloured vinyl Phaedra and the Amorphous Androgynous release, it felt like the old days. Mostly though I’ll still buy CDs, they are easily transported, sound great and I love my collection to be complete for those artists I have followed for all of these years. I guess at some point I’ll need to make some downsizing decisions, there are so many that will in all probability never be played again. Then again it’s the same with books, that collection grows each week too and Kindle was meant to be the death knell there.

  4. #54
    I don't think the CD market will ever completely disappear. They will probably continue to decline in the more "casual" mainstream market but will level-off at some point I imagine. I think CD sales might actually grow for some time among the more dedicated music listeners (ie. Jazz, Classical, Prog, etc. fans who digest entire albums) and audiophiles, all of whom seem to be more likely to prefer physical product. (And remember, this isn't a zero-sum game; one can always buy the disc [B]and[B] rip to digital, and get the best of both worlds!)

    The vinyl renaissance has been ongoing for a few years now, and it seems a lot of folks are becoming increasingly disillusioned due to the frequently poor QC in modern pressings (even some high-dollar 180/200g titles have been duds), so I would predict that this might also give a boost to CDs in the not too distant future as people grow tired of the hit/miss quality and constantly fiddling around with preamps, VTAs, and broken cantilevers.
    "...when Kenny G decided that it was appropriate for him to defile the music of the man who is probably the greatest jazz musician that has ever lived by spewing his lame-ass, jive, pseudo bluesy, out-of-tune, noodling, wimped out, fucked up playing all over one of the great Louis's tracks (even one of his lesser ones), he did something that I would not have imagined possible."
    -Pat Metheny commenting on Kenny G's soprano overdubs on top of "What a Wonderful World"

  5. #55
    Member Vic2012's Avatar
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    I'd rather have CDs than stream as a general rule. But buying physical product has become a chore so I stream on YT and Bluetooth in my car or home system. I have enough CDs though. I'd like to get rid of some CDs but I don't know if any used stores are left in my area.

  6. #56
    The pandemic has actually reduced my CD buying dramatically.

    I've got the money and the time, but the reality is that listening to CDs was mostly something I did in the car. No other medium is as convenient for the daily commute for someone who's album-focused like me and doesn't want to just listen to random tracks on a media player. Maybe some cars handle USB media better than my car does, such as remembering where where you left off when you shut off the engine, buy my car does none of those things. Bringing a stack of CDs is great for the drive.

    Since I'm working at home all day on a PC now, it's often just easier to fire up the old YouTube than go grab a disc for the optical drive. I can veer between albums and live shows unavailable commercially, also.

  7. #57
    Man of repute progmatist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    That's a BS analogy. If you have the infrastructure for CDs, then the CD is vastly easier to use than digital files depending on your use case, and certainly easier than floppy discs were on computers. If you want to invest in the infrastructure to properly render digital files on you stereo, or your car, or whatever, without breaks between songs and without latency and all that crap... good for you. More power to you. But I have a CD player and a stereo, as well as a CD player in my car, and I know how to use them, and amazingly, they work with no internet connection, no hard drive, no shuffling though digital menus, no stupid breaks between song, blah, blah, blah. CDs are 100% functional for listening to music and saying otherwise is crap.
    Back in the day, there were many times when a CD ended while driving, and I had to fumble around to change it...all the while trying to keep my eyes on the road. Messing with the stereo is one of the most common causes of car crashes. Fast forward a few years when I switched to a Fiio X1 loaded with Hi-Res files, plugged into the aux input. The higher quality music would just keep playing, and playing, and playing, and I wouldn't have to mess with or even think about it. To this day, I copy a boat load of albums to an SD card, and the player will continue playing one album after another, after another.

    Ending CDs was even a problem on short trips. I'd go somewhere and turn off the stereo along with the car. When I started driving again, the CD would pick up right where it left off. The CD would often reach its end mid trip, regardless of how long the trips were.
    Last edited by progmatist; 3 Weeks Ago at 04:37 PM.
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  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by progmatist View Post
    Back in the day, there were many times when a CD ended while driving, and I had to fumble around to change it...all the while trying to keep my eyes on the road. Messing with the stereo is one of the most common causes of car crashes. Fast forward a few years when I switched to a Fiio X1 loaded with Hi-Res files, plugged into the aux input. The higher quality music would just keep playing, and playing, and playing and I wouldn't have to mess with or even think about it. To this day, I copy a boat load of albums to an SD card, and the player will continue playing one album after another, after another.
    You still have to look at and touch the music player at some point though, surely...?

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Rick L. View Post
    I think The Fall of the CD Accelerating would also be a great idea for a television drama. I'm thinking a six episode miniseries, set 35 years in the future.
    I say it makes a good name for some hip group's box set, released on 6 cassettes and a wax cylinder.
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  10. #60
    Moderator Poisoned Youth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    Jesus, Sean. What's up your ass? I'm being polite and civil. I'm sorry you don't like what I am saying, but am I not allowed to disagree with you?
    We haven't really disagreed as much as been engaged in an exercise in clarifying comments. But when it gets to "Let's see what the trends are in 30-35 years before anyone says that the vinyl lp is back from the dead and here to stay and the CD is going away and dead", that comes off pretty snarky imo. Maybe that wasn't your intention, so I apologize for getting snarky back.
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  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by progmatist View Post
    Back in the day, there were many times when a CD ended while driving, and I had to fumble around to change it...all the while trying to keep my eyes on the road. Messing with the stereo is one of the most common causes of car crashes. Fast forward a few years when I switched to a Fiio X1 loaded with Hi-Res files, plugged into the aux input. The higher quality music would just keep playing, and playing, and playing, and I wouldn't have to mess with or even think about it. To this day, I copy a boat load of albums to an SD card, and the player will continue playing one album after another, after another.

    Ending CDs was even a problem on short trips. I'd go somewhere and turn off the stereo along with the car. When I started driving again, the CD would pick up right where it left off. The CD would often reach its end mid trip, regardless of how long the trips were.
    OK. Those are problems for you. Not me. For the tips I take, I find a single CD about perfect, and if I take a longer trip, I let my co-pilot change the CD. So, your solution works for you, and mine works for me. Both are fine. I just think your categorical dismissal of CDs as a good way to listen to music is simply wrong, and the comparison with floppy discs is applicable only if you actually *mind* changing the CD. If the vinyl worshipers can flip their precious discs over at the 20-ish minute mark, why can't CD owners be entitled the same privilege after 40, 50, 60, 70, or near 80 minutes of music?

    And I'd say I derive every bit as much pleasure from owning physical CDs as vinyl hounds do from owning their vinyl. I love my CDs. They work for me, and I enjoy owning them. That's not to say other things don't work better for others, but that's to say that CDs can still be a treat for some. So embrace your technology, really. Couldn't be happier for you. But lose the attitude about people who don't. That's all I was saying.

    Bill

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by smcfee View Post
    This might be a stance to reconsider if you actually like the artist. Replicating 300 CDs (typical minimum run) is going to be a few hundred dollars, plus the cost of packaging, and then the logistics of storage and shipping, is a barrier to entry for many, especially depending on the country.
    The barrier of pressing 300 CDs is a pretty low bar. I think those who don't press a CD are basically accepting they can't break even on a tiny run. So, they slap their music up on Bandcamp, and whoever buys it... fine.

    If that makes one happy, I have no problem with it. But I ascribe absolutely zero value to downloads. I have a few that were free, which I hardly ever play. Why would I pay for something that I'd never play, even if I did enjoy the music? Sadly, this has happened. There are some artists I like and have followed who have given up on pressed CDs, and I've stopped buying their music. Likewise, new music I check out. I got to Bandcamp, and if there's no CD, I don't bother.

    This is not a stance I'm going to reconsider. I don't need to just compulsively collect music. I have enough already! Enough to last me decades! I want it to bring me joy, and owning the physical product is a part of that, logical or not. I'm going down with the CD ship, and if artists want my business, they will press CDs.

    I imagine this will be a huge motivator, and we'll now see a massive surge in CD production! Not!

    Bill

  13. #63
    Man of repute progmatist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    OK. Those are problems for you. Not me. For the tips I take, I find a single CD about perfect, and if I take a longer trip, I let my co-pilot change the CD. So, your solution works for you, and mine works for me.
    I'm sure that's fine in the Boston area. Here in the Phoenix area, traffic is a nightmare...or was before Covid. Plus, the Phoenix area is far more spread out than most major metropolitan areas in the US. Finally, I don't have the luxury of a co-pilot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    I just think your categorical dismissal of CDs as a good way to listen to music is simply wrong, and the comparison with floppy discs is applicable only if you actually *mind* changing the CD. If the vinyl worshipers can flip their precious discs over at the 20-ish minute mark, why can't CD owners be entitled the same privilege after 40, 50, 60, 70, or near 80 minutes of music?
    I'm not dismissing them entirely. I'm merely pointing out the CD is little more than a container of digital information. CDs can hold data as well as audio. If a music CD is ripped in FLAC or pure WAV format, the bits are identical. The bits would be identical if they were spanned over a box full of floppies, or a room full of punch cards. In this day and age, for me anyway, CDs are too bulky to be practical. There are far more convenient ways to carry music.

    BTW: software developers have moved past the data CD to the dual-layer DVD-ROM.
    Last edited by progmatist; 3 Weeks Ago at 06:21 PM.
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  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    The barrier of pressing 300 CDs is a pretty low bar.
    I mean, for some of us it would be, and for a lot of other people it really wouldn't.
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  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by progmatist View Post
    Back in the day, there were many times when a CD ended while driving, and I had to fumble around to change it...all the while trying to keep my eyes on the road. Messing with the stereo is one of the most common causes of car crashes. Fast forward a few years when I switched to a Fiio X1 loaded with Hi-Res files, plugged into the aux input. The higher quality music would just keep playing, and playing, and playing, and I wouldn't have to mess with or even think about it. To this day, I copy a boat load of albums to an SD card, and the player will continue playing one album after another, after another.

    Ending CDs was even a problem on short trips. I'd go somewhere and turn off the stereo along with the car. When I started driving again, the CD would pick up right where it left off. The CD would often reach its end mid trip, regardless of how long the trips were.
    Never really been a problem for me, because I either pull on the side of the road or let the disc run a second time until I find a safe place to switch... or when there is somebody in the passenger seat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    There are some artists I like and have followed who have given up on pressed CDs, and I've stopped buying their music. Likewise, new music I check out. I got to Bandcamp, and if there's no CD, I don't bother.

    This is not a stance I'm going to reconsider. I don't need to just compulsively collect music. I have enough already! Enough to last me decades! I want it to bring me joy, and owning the physical product is a part of that, logical or not. I'm going down with the CD ship, and if artists want my business, they will press CDs.
    thay's +/- my stance too.

    Quote Originally Posted by smcfee View Post
    I mean, for some of us it would be, and for a lot of other people it really wouldn't.
    amazing to know that all of that unearthing of old prog didn't sell very well.

    It seems that a lot of people in La Belle Province have collective amnesia of the later 70's... or that the migraine they caught after the referendum is still nagging them.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  16. #66
    Member Vic2012's Avatar
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    I'm an album guy. I like hearing albums. I like CDs for that purpose. I tried the the the thumbdrive and it randomly played whatever it wanted. It's not important enough to waste my time with it. CDs work for me. YouTube works too. 😆

  17. #67
    Member Vic2012's Avatar
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    The the.....lol.

  18. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    But I ascribe absolutely zero value to downloads. [...] Why would I pay for something that I'd never play, even if I did enjoy the music?
    I'm a little confused... Are you saying you don't (or won't) listen to music if it's only available digitally? Or that you only listen to music on CD players?


    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    Sadly, this has happened. There are some artists I like and have followed who have given up on pressed CDs, and I've stopped buying their music. Likewise, new music I check out. I got to Bandcamp, and if there's no CD, I don't bother.

    This is not a stance I'm going to reconsider. I don't need to just compulsively collect music. I have enough already! Enough to last me decades! I want it to bring me joy, and owning the physical product is a part of that, logical or not. I'm going down with the CD ship, and if artists want my business, they will press CDs.
    Well, that's certainly one way to look at it... I tend to view it differently. The reason I buy digital music is not to "just compulsively collect music".

    If I come across music I enjoy, regardless of the media format it's on, I want to buy it for two reasons: 1) So I can listen to it whenever I want to, and 2) to support the artist. Doesn't matter what media format they release it in, because formats change over time. I'm not married to any particular format, and physical media takes up space, which is limited where I live so I have to be judicious.

    I won't buy cassette tapes though. I have exactly one -- Tony Banks' The Wicked Lady, and that's more for collectors' purposes than anything else. I have no cassette player, and other limitations make them very impractical for me. Thank goodness it's rare for me to come across any albums that are "cassette only".

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
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  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    That's a BS analogy. If you have the infrastructure for CDs, then the CD is vastly easier to use than digital files depending on your use case, and certainly easier than floppy discs were on computers. If you want to invest in the infrastructure to properly render digital files on you stereo, or your car, or whatever, without breaks between songs and without latency and all that crap... good for you. More power to you. But I have a CD player and a stereo, as well as a CD player in my car, and I know how to use them, and amazingly, they work with no internet connection, no hard drive, no shuffling though digital menus, no stupid breaks between song, blah, blah, blah. CDs are 100% functional for listening to music and saying otherwise is crap.

    All that aside, I do see some drop-off in the number of releases available on CD. But I think Ken nailed it. The bands that can afford to do CD do so, and others don't. I wish that number trickled down a bit more to the smaller artists like it did in the 90s. But it's not the 90s anymore, and this is where the hit is really felt. But there's still tons of stuff on CD, and I'm sticking 100% with CD. I utterly hate downloads and wonder why anyone actually likes dealing with music that way (how do you "browse" your collection, on a spreadsheet? Blah!). But if they do, and it works for them, more power to them.

    Bill
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  21. #71
    Subterranean Tapir Hobo Chang Ba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by progmatist View Post
    Back in the day, there were many times when a CD ended while driving, and I had to fumble around to change it...all the while trying to keep my eyes on the road. Messing with the stereo is one of the most common causes of car crashes. Fast forward a few years when I switched to a Fiio X1 loaded with Hi-Res files, plugged into the aux input. The higher quality music would just keep playing, and playing, and playing, and I wouldn't have to mess with or even think about it. To this day, I copy a boat load of albums to an SD card, and the player will continue playing one album after another, after another.

    Ending CDs was even a problem on short trips. I'd go somewhere and turn off the stereo along with the car. When I started driving again, the CD would pick up right where it left off. The CD would often reach its end mid trip, regardless of how long the trips were.
    My car came with a cd player that could hold 6 CDs, so this has never a problem for me. Since aftermarket CD players will soon be (or already are) the only way people will get CD players in the future, I imagine this will be more of an option for people who like to listen to CDs while driving.
    No humor please, we're skittish.

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  22. #72
    Subterranean Tapir Hobo Chang Ba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post

    If that makes one happy, I have no problem with it. But I ascribe absolutely zero value to downloads. I have a few that were free, which I hardly ever play. Why would I pay for something that I'd never play, even if I did enjoy the music? Sadly, this has happened. There are some artists I like and have followed who have given up on pressed CDs, and I've stopped buying their music. Likewise, new music I check out. I got to Bandcamp, and if there's no CD, I don't bother.

    This is not a stance I'm going to reconsider. I don't need to just compulsively collect music. I have enough already! Enough to last me decades! I want it to bring me joy, and owning the physical product is a part of that, logical or not. I'm going down with the CD ship, and if artists want my business, they will press CDs.



    Bill
    This is definitely me too. Sometimes it makes me sad, but your point of having so much music to listen to rings true for me as well. I've learned to live with it better as time goes forward.

    And for those that say, why not still support the artist? Well, there are many artists out there. I rather support an artist that makes physical product (specifically CDs, as I have no use for a vinyl). Sorry if that sound selfish, but that's the reality for me.
    No humor please, we're skittish.

    Never let good music get in the way of making a profit.

  23. #73
    I have been buying so many CD's, One Dollar, Fifty Cents, a Quarter? I have thousands of CD's now and I an constantly amazed at what people turn into the second hand shops. I am also amazed at how many CD's turn up that I never even heard of, glory days for me as far as that goes. I also have over a thousand Cassettes, and LP's although I rarely buy more of either of them. I do however buy Cassette players, Walkmans, (MP-3 players,cassettes, and Cd) and turntables and receivers and surprisingly most of them work, although I may have to fix minor things, for pennies on the dollar. Really fun times.

  24. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by progmatist View Post
    I'm not dismissing them entirely. I'm merely pointing out the CD is little more than a container of digital information. CDs can hold data as well as audio. If a music CD is ripped in FLAC or pure WAV format, the bits are identical. The bits would be identical if they were spanned over a box full of floppies, or a room full of punch cards. In this day and age, for me anyway, CDs are too bulky to be practical. There are far more convenient ways to carry music.

    BTW: software developers have moved past the data CD to the dual-layer DVD-ROM.
    Let's got to the tape, shall we? "Listening to music on CDs today is like installing software from a stack of floppies 20 years ago." That is 100% dismissive. Own it, dude.

    Yes, the CD is a container of digital information. Yes, software designers have moved on. Who gives a shit? CDs have a case, and artwork, and it is a single, unified unit that I don't have to rip, burn, transfer, or buy another device to play. I can physically "browse" my collection, rather than scrolling through some POS iBlah menu to find the album I want play. I have ALL the infrastructure I need to play CDs anywhere I want, and they work for me. So who the hell cares if they're just containers of digital information? They work! They're easy! I already have tons of them! They work for me in a way floppy discs on computers never did. And I like them, more than just a freaking digital file!

    Again, if you like the digital format, fine! Really! I could care less! But saying the CD has no intrinsic value ignores aspects that do have value to others. Enjoy your use case, let millions of others enjoy theirs!

    Quote Originally Posted by aith01 View Post
    I'm a little confused... Are you saying you don't (or won't) listen to music if it's only available digitally? Or that you only listen to music on CD players?
    Plain and simple, I don't buy digital files or CDRs. I buy factory pressed CDs. And if there is music that is released that is not on CD, then I don't buy it. Too bad for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by aith01 View Post
    Well, that's certainly one way to look at it... I tend to view it differently. The reason I buy digital music is not to "just compulsively collect music".

    If I come across music I enjoy, regardless of the media format it's on, I want to buy it for two reasons: 1) So I can listen to it whenever I want to, and 2) to support the artist. Doesn't matter what media format they release it in, because formats change over time. I'm not married to any particular format, and physical media takes up space, which is limited where I live so I have to be judicious.
    Good for you. Different strokes for different folks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hobo Chang Ba View Post
    This is definitely me too. Sometimes it makes me sad, but your point of having so much music to listen to rings true for me as well. I've learned to live with it better as time goes forward.

    And for those that say, why not still support the artist? Well, there are many artists out there. I rather support an artist that makes physical product (specifically CDs, as I have no use for a vinyl). Sorry if that sound selfish, but that's the reality for me.
    100% agree with this. I have plenty of music. I'm sorry when I hear something I like that isn't on CD, but it's just not worth it to me to buy the digital file. It brings me no joy. I put that money into CD releases, and I don't pine after what I can't have. People have limits, and on this issue, I've reached mine.

    Bill

  25. #75
    Member dropforge's Avatar
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    Right there with you, Bill. I don't buy downloads. Never have, never will. Physical media only.

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