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Thread: Fall of the CD accelerating?

  1. #26
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    So many Bandcamp releases are coming out on vinyl in multiple colors and have loving descriptions, while for one release I bought on Bandcamp recently the entry for the CD simply (and wryly) read “Ye olde CD.”

    Yeah, I find that BC bands shunning the CDs pretty stoooopid - as if they were big enough and sold enough to purposely snob the CD

    I've told a few of them that I would do without their music at home if there wasn't a CD. For Aquaserge, I know it did some effect though they were not on bandcamp at the time), but that's most likely because I wasn't the only one telling them.

    Quote Originally Posted by battema View Post
    On the other hand...goddamned cassettes are making a comeback. It's like if the plague became fashionable. So clearly, logic isn't the top player in this particular game.
    that, on the other hand, is bloody scandalous (for the environment - amongst others), and strictly hipster BS hype.

    Quote Originally Posted by LASERCD View Post
    We are moving a tremendous amount of CDs - back to the levels we were selling 15 years ago. Clearly related to quarantine fever but it proves that the market is out there. Customers want physical product - CDs and vinyl. We add new customers every day including some we haven't heard from in years. Our average number of sales per day are up significantly.
    Yes, Covid times has a lot of things regress (not CDs of course ), but the return of plastic packages (for everything) is an environmental regression of 15 years.

    Otherwise, I'm pleased that Greg, you and Steve are "doing fine"

    Quote Originally Posted by LASERCD View Post
    Labels are having to get more creative. They are releasing CDs with value added material - bonus discs, art books, special packaging. Fans love it, grabbing it and paying $$$ for it. You want colored vinyl? Sure - tell us what colors. We'll make 'em!

    Show me a major rock or pop artist that passes up a CD release for their album. Overall for the industry CD sales are clearly down. For the "prog rock" market I am confident that its historically down but the curve is nowhere as steep as for the overall industry.

    Bandcamp is a great vehicle for labels and bands to sell digital releases. Many of these independent bands couldn't sell enough product on their own to warrant a physical release. Those that can do. Its as simple as that.
    I've heard that said before, but somehow bands find money to press coloured vinyls, but not for pressing CDs??

    Maybe you, Alain and Steve can shed a light on this: is pressing vinyls & big sleeves more expensive than CDs with digipak or jewel case or even cardboard-only sleeves? Or not??
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    I've heard that said before, but somehow bands find money to press coloured vinyls, but not for pressing CDs??

    Maybe you, Alain and Steve can shed a light on this: is pressing vinyls & big sleeves more expensive than CDs with digipak or jewel case or even cardboard-only sleeves? Or not??
    There is a reason vinyl is so expensive. It can be between 7-10x the cost of manufacturing a CD.

  3. #28
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    I’ve gotten to the point where I’m buying most of my music on Qobuz. If I can purchase downloads that are CD quality or better then I don’t really need the plastic unless it’s a new releases from a special favorite where having the object matters.
    "It was a cruel song, but fair."-Roger Waters

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    Sure, but I was postulating that CDs are still selling because people are attached to physical product and collecting and not because of the CD as a format itself.
    and you can't say exactly those same things about vinyl and vinyl buyers?
    Steve F.

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    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

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  5. #30
    Moderator Poisoned Youth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    and you can't say exactly those same things about vinyl and vinyl buyers?
    Sure, but the discussion was about the CD format.
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  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    I've told a few of them that I would do without their music at home if there wasn't a CD.
    This might be a stance to reconsider if you actually like the artist. Replicating 300 CDs (typical minimum run) is going to be a few hundred dollars, plus the cost of packaging, and then the logistics of storage and shipping, is a barrier to entry for many, especially depending on the country.
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  7. #32
    Moderator Poisoned Youth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    Does it seem like the number of people to whom physical CDs have become superfluous is growing at a considerably faster pace now than it was not too long ago?
    While we are not qualified to discuss the music industry, the RIAA put together an interesting interactive table that illustrates the trends for sales in the U.S. and provides some insight to your question...

    https://www.riaa.com/u-s-sales-database/

    You can see how the CD format is diminishing year over year, how downloads have become the dominant album format, and how streaming is overtaking all formats in general. This is just for the U.S., but it’d be interesting to see global data as well.

    Obviously within the Prog community bubble there is a different balance of that. Remember we did that poll earlier this year?

    https://www.progressiveears.org/foru...ou-using-most?



    Rolling Stone had this article about trends as well:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/pro/new...-vinyl-935246/
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  8. #33
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    Sure, but the discussion was about the CD format.
    You're avoiding my point. Is that why vinyl is still selling?

    Everyone talks about what a success it is, but what's the number of units sold of CD vs the number of units of vinyl? [I know financially vinyl outstripped CDs last year, but they also cost anywhere from 1.5 to 3 times as much as a CD].
    Steve F.

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    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "You run a great label, but sometimes you go out of your way to be a jerk." - Jed Levin

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  9. #34
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    ...and how streaming is overtaking all formats in general.
    of course streaming is overtaking all formats, and will continue to do so, since it is essentially free.

    Free always will win.

    A possible Vinyl decline in sales is under the same financial pressure and possibly even more so, since it is so much more expensive than any other format. IMO.
    Last edited by Steve F.; 2 Weeks Ago at 08:51 AM.
    Steve F.

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    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "You run a great label, but sometimes you go out of your way to be a jerk." - Jed Levin

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  10. #35
    Moderator Poisoned Youth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    You're avoiding my point. Is that why vinyl is still selling?
    That's not my intention. From my observations, vinyl has always had a hip factor and a "user experience" factor to a degree that CDs and cassettes never obtained. When you add those who think the format is sonically and visually superior, I think there's going to be a market for it. Whereas, in spite of efforts to make it en vogue, you don't have many clinging to their cassette collection for similar reasons.

    According to RS, the top selling vinyl record was Billie Eilish at about 113K copies. Go figure.

    Everyone talks about what a success it is, but what's the number of units sold of CD vs the number of units of vinyl? [I know financially vinyl outstripped CDs last year, but they also cost anywhere from 1.5 to 3 times as much as a CD].
    According to RIAA, there were 453.3 million units sold in the U.S. that roughly broke down as:

    Download single - 335m, 74% share
    Download album - 40m, 9%
    CD - 46.5m, 10%
    Vinyl - 19m, 4%
    Other - 12m, 3%

    While the downloads dwarf the physicals, that's a pretty impressive number of units of vinyl moved vs. CD.
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  11. #36
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smcfee View Post
    This might be a stance to reconsider if you actually like the artist. Replicating 300 CDs (typical minimum run) is going to be a few hundred dollars, plus the cost of packaging, and then the logistics of storage and shipping, is a barrier to entry for many, especially depending on the country.
    Well, my point is: if you've got money to press XYZ vinyls, you should maybe press 3/4 of that amount and press 2x XYZ CDs

    I'm tired of vinyl fetishists hipsters wanting to kill the CD format on the grounds of the good old excuse that CD killed vinyls in the 90's (which is pure BS, anyways: it's the cassette that killed vinyl and CD that killed the cassette)


    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    According to RIAA, there were 453.3 million units sold in the U.S. that roughly broke down as:

    Download single - 335m, 74% share
    Download album - 40m, 9%
    CD - 46.5m, 10%
    Vinyl - 19m, 4%
    Other - 12m, 3%

    While the downloads dwarf the physicals, that's a pretty impressive number of units of vinyl moved vs. CD.
    You can easily imagine some continents (the poorer ones), where CDs have a higher %age/marketshare at the espense of vinyls too
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    According to RIAA, there were 453.3 million units sold in the U.S. that roughly broke down as:

    Download single - 335m, 74% share
    Download album - 40m, 9%
    CD - 46.5m, 10%
    Vinyl - 19m, 4%
    Other - 12m, 3%

    While the downloads dwarf the physicals, that's a pretty impressive number of units of vinyl moved vs. CD.
    If you can sell 46.5 million units of anything in just one country it isn’t going away soon.

  13. #38
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    From my observations, vinyl has always had a hip factor and a "user experience" factor to a degree that CDs and cassettes never obtained. When you add those who think the format is sonically and visually superior, I think there's going to be a market for it.
    CDs very much had a hip factor. 30-35 years ago.

    Cassettes not so much.

    Let's see what the trends are in 30-35 years before anyone says that the vinyl lp is back from the dead and here to stay and the CD is going away and dead.

    Who knows?
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
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    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "You run a great label, but sometimes you go out of your way to be a jerk." - Jed Levin

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    CDs very much had a hip factor. 30-35 years ago.

    Cassettes not so much.
    Cassettes remain my own personal "divide by zero" in this equation. I get the cost factor, and I get the "I'll take anything physical just to get the BC code inside the case" factor. But in some of the other genres I follow (especially industrial/electronic/noise/etc.), I'm seeing releases ONLY on cassette, no code and no separate digital only release. Just a cassette.

    I know pro-replicated CDs (not CD-Rs) are still considerably more expensive than a cassette but if I was a band and down to that choice, I'd probably do a low cost/low run CD-R with really nice packaging before I'd do a cassette myself.


    I'm really really happy to hear sales are up for you folks (Ken / Steve)
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  15. #40
    Moderator Poisoned Youth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    CDs very much had a hip factor. 30-35 years ago.

    Cassettes not so much.

    Let's see what the trends are in 30-35 years before anyone says that the vinyl lp is back from the dead and here to stay and the CD is going away and dead.
    Agreed. We should stop discussing everything for that matter. What's the point? It's usually subjective/opinion/personal and, if you have facts, they don't matter these days anyway. Think of the time we can all save ourselves if we shut down PE for good!
    WANTED: Sig-worthy quote.

  16. #41
    I think The Fall of the CD Accelerating would also be a great idea for a television drama. I'm thinking a six episode miniseries, set 35 years in the future.

    In a dark desolate world, where Progressive Ears has become the largest social media network on Earth......

    Something like that.

  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by battema View Post
    On one hand...CDs are essentially read-only copies of digital files and as such, really are just a larger, less flexible container than a hard drive or USB stick. And probably won't have the same long-term collector's appeal as achieved by vinyl of late.

    On the other hand...goddamned cassettes are making a comeback. It's like if the plague became fashionable. So clearly, logic isn't the top player in this particular game.

    As long as there's a market for them, I will likely still be in the CD game. I won't likely be to the same levels as before but it'll always be a quiet passion of mine.
    I'm curious as to the market for cassettes? Car / Home cassette decks long went away.. and CD drives have gone away from laptops, and I doubt you'll find a new car with a CD player in it..

  18. #43
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    Agreed. We should stop discussing everything for that matter. What's the point? It's usually subjective/opinion/personal and, if you have facts, they don't matter these days anyway. Think of the time we can all save ourselves if we shut down PE for good!

    Jesus, Sean. What's up your ass? I'm being polite and civil. I'm sorry you don't like what I am saying, but am I not allowed to disagree with you?
    Steve F.

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    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "You run a great label, but sometimes you go out of your way to be a jerk." - Jed Levin

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  19. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Rick L. View Post
    In a dark desolate world, where Progressive Ears has become the largest social media network on Earth......
    You mean because there are millions of people on PE, or it's just us and everyone else died?

    I envisage a post-Apocalyptic scenario where only the prog nuts survived...they were too dweeby to die. We follow our everyman hero as he emerges blinking from his listening room after a ten-day Zappa binge to discover a world in ruins! Consider his desperate struggle for warmth, shelter, food and companionship! And the concept album he's trying to write about it all (on acoustic guitar, because the power's out - he has to hum the Mellotron parts).
    “your ognna pay pay with my wrath of ballbat”

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  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    , if you have facts, they don't matter these days anyway.
    Careful. The Cult of the Damned will be coming for you.

  21. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Mascodagama View Post
    You mean because there are millions of people on PE, or it's just us and everyone else died?

    I envisage a post-Apocalyptic scenario where only the prog nuts survived...they were too dweeby to die. We follow our everyman hero as he emerges blinking from his listening room after a ten-day Zappa binge to discover a world in ruins! Consider his desperate struggle for warmth, shelter, food and companionship! And the concept album he's trying to write about it all (on acoustic guitar, because the power's out - he has to hum the Mellotron parts).
    Millions of people on PE, because "prog" is so important and long-lasting. And the discussions here are really heavy.

    I love your vision, though. Great stuff!

  22. #47
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    With the fall of the CD accelerating, if you drop a CD and an egg off the roof of a high rise, which hits the ground first?

  23. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    With the fall of the CD accelerating, if you drop a CD and an egg off the roof of a high rise, which hits the ground first?
    The CD hits a split second before the egg, but you need special machines to notice the actual difference. Humans cannot perceive it without assistance.

  24. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    With the fall of the CD accelerating, if you drop a CD and an egg off the roof of a high rise, which hits the ground first?
    What if it's an Egg CD?
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  25. #50
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    It depends on whether it's a Civil Surface
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