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Thread: Big Big Train Announce Line-up Changes - New Album

  1. #26
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeFrog View Post
    No big deal but double posts are annoying.
    Please. We're talking about Big Big Train here.

  2. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    Please. We're talking about Big Big Train here.
    They've changed it to just Big Train now.

    Well, this is a four piece powerhouse so I'm sure the new album will still be great!

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squids View Post
    They've changed it to just Big Train now.

    Well, this is a four piece powerhouse so I'm sure the new album will still be great!
    I'd expect additional session and tour musicians.
    On the verge of indecision
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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squids View Post
    They've changed it to just Big Train now.

    Well, this is a four piece powerhouse so I'm sure the new album will still be great!
    Given the amount of instruments the 4 of them can play, I am not particularly worried for the next album. Even if replacing Dave Gregory is the biggest issue, Rikard has delivered some very tasteful solos on the BBT albums he's been involved with so it will be alright in this department as well.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeFrog View Post
    The Original Post.



    Yes I did, your link has exactly the same info as the link given in this thread's first post. It's just worded slightly differently (some journalist probably needs to justify his salary).

    My point is, you basically reposted the information that was the purpose of this thread. No big deal but double posts are annoying.
    Apparently, the original post had links that covered the additional information.
    On the verge of indecision
    I'll always take the roundabout way

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeFrog View Post
    Given the amount of instruments the 4 of them can play, I am not particularly worried for the next album. Even if replacing Dave Gregory is the biggest issue, Rikard has delivered some very tasteful solos on the BBT albums he's been involved with so it will be alright in this department as well.
    In the videos I watched yesterday, Rikard seemed to follow Dave at times.
    On the verge of indecision
    I'll always take the roundabout way

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by LeFrog View Post
    It's always sad for the fans but I don't think all these departures will have the same impact.
    Andy was a founding member but his musical contributions in the years prior to his departure were virtually nil.
    Dave is the biggest blow IMO because he has a distinctive sound and was already well known before joining. I know many people discovered the band through his involvement.
    Fans became attached to Rachel and Danny over the years but they were later additions to the band and as musicians I think they can be more easily replaced. Danny could also play double bass but hasn't done so on the last couple of albums, so I doubt it will be a requirement.

    I'd never heard of Dave Gregory before he joined BBT. I'm not keen on XTC so he'd never crossed my radar. Great player, no doubt and definitely a big loss for the band but I think Rachel's lovely violin sound will potentially be a bigger one.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by the ferret View Post
    I'd never heard of Dave Gregory before he joined BBT. I'm not keen on XTC so he'd never crossed my radar. Great player, no doubt and definitely a big loss for the band but I think Rachel's lovely violin sound will potentially be a bigger one.
    I think question of loss comes down to uniqueness of sound of a musician and his instrument. From an instrumental standpoint, there is no one that sounded the way that Dave sounded on BBT material, while I really enjoy XTCís alternative pop sound with Dave, not much Iíve heard from XTC and Dave approached what he did on BBT. It is as if BBT raised Dave to another level. It will be interesting to see what he does from now.
    On the verge of indecision
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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firth View Post
    I think question of loss comes down to uniqueness of sound of a musician and his instrument. From an instrumental standpoint, there is no one that sounded the way that Dave sounded on BBT material, while I really enjoy XTCís alternative pop sound with Dave, not much Iíve heard from XTC and Dave approached what he did on BBT. It is as if BBT raised Dave to another level. It will be interesting to see what he does from now.
    I absolutely agree on all points.

    Although Rachel's contributions were spot on and tasteful, I don't think she had a unique sound on her instrument in the way that Dave did.

  10. #35
    It's also worth noting that Dave also played some of the keyboard parts on XTC's songs.

  11. #36
    Dave Gregory is also more than his instrumental prowess and signature sound, his skills as an arranger are something that both XTC and BBT drew upon. He will be missed, but perhaps they can utilise him in a studio environment in the future.

    I’ll miss Rachel’s live contributions to the vocal sound too, she really added something special on the last tour.

  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Firth View Post
    I think question of loss comes down to uniqueness of sound of a musician and his instrument. From an instrumental standpoint, there is no one that sounded the way that Dave sounded on BBT material, while I really enjoy XTC’s alternative pop sound with Dave, not much I’ve heard from XTC and Dave approached what he did on BBT. It is as if BBT raised Dave to another level. It will be interesting to see what he does from now.

    I'll definitely be interested in any future Dave Gregory music, for sure.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunlight Caller View Post
    Dave Gregory is also more than his instrumental prowess and signature sound, his skills as an arranger are something that both XTC and BBT drew upon. He will be missed, but perhaps they can utilise him in a studio environment in the future.

    Iíll miss Rachelís live contributions to the vocal sound too, she really added something special on the last tour.
    Definitely hopes she keeps the creativity going and I look forward to hearing her new endeavor.
    On the verge of indecision
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  14. #39
    Progdog ThomasKDye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the ferret View Post
    I'll definitely be interested in any future Dave Gregory music, for sure.
    Sigh. You might wait a long time. He never wrote anything for XTC and he's made no secret of being solely a musician/arranger for others' music.

    I'm slightly - SLIGHTLY - on the "no Dave Gregory, no BBT" side of things; his guitar style was excellent and it's hard for me to imagine the band without it.
    "Arf." -- Frank Zappa, "Beauty Knows No Pain" (live version)

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasKDye View Post

    I'm slightly - SLIGHTLY - on the "no Dave Gregory, no BBT" side of things; his guitar style was excellent and it's hard for me to imagine the band without it.
    I'm with you here but it's somewhat reassuring to listen to songs in which Rikard plays the main guitar solo :
    The Transit of Venus Across the Sun
    Brave Captain
    Experimental Gentlemen
    The Florentine
    and I may be forgetting some...

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasKDye View Post
    Sigh. You might wait a long time. He never wrote anything for XTC and he's made no secret of being solely a musician/arranger for others' music.

    I'm slightly - SLIGHTLY - on the "no Dave Gregory, no BBT" side of things; his guitar style was excellent and it's hard for me to imagine the band without it.
    I am definitely not on that side. BBT is way more than Dave, and Dave is way more than many modern guitarists. If BBT morphed from the current unconventional sound they have as a band and adopted new musicians that made the band more conventional, then that would be a problem for me.
    On the verge of indecision
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  17. #42
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    Prog is about many things, but one of the important ones is virtuosity. One of the hallmarks of a virtuoso is an individual touch and style that makes them instantly identifiable to the practiced ear. Dave Gregory is a guitar virtuoso. His "voice" was an ingredient in BBT that can't be substituted without changing the taste of the stew.

    IMO, Rachel Hall was very good, but fell short of virtuosity. She's no Joshua Bell. Many other violinists could play the same parts as well, and I'm not at all certain to what extent the parts she played were written by her, rather than by one of the primary songwriter/arrangers. Some of the demos and alternates available via the BBT "Passengers Club" argue for the latter.

    I also felt that the band had come to feature the violin too much at times and would have preferred some of those violin solos to be something else. Like a guest reed player of some sort. An occasional oboe or French horn might work better than a violin on some of this stuff, for example.

    Danny Manners falls somewhere between, IMO. His playing was very strongly featured, and very important to the sound of the band, but it's less clear to me whether another equally capable keyboardist would sound much the same. Again, Spawnton's and Longdon's demos often lay out parts that are very close to what Manners and Hall played on the final record. So do Rikard SjŲblom's recent BBT demos.

    The remaining four are the creative core of the version of the band that has become so popular in the last few years. But they need a virtuoso guitarist, a top-tier keyboardist, and a roster of excellent guest musicians to sound like that band. In the studio, for their next album, I have no doubt they will be able to make a BBT record that is clearly BBT, but I expect welcome new ground to be broken. Just de-emphasizing the violin and using a better variety of solo instruments will help.

    But we can expect the live BBT to be a new and different animal. Differences that may be exciting and welcome, perhaps, but different. Those of us who never got to see the band (almost everybody in almost the entire world) with Gregory/Hall/Manners will never get to see a BBT that sounds anything like it. I look forward to the new version, but I'll always regret the lost opportunity (so close!) to see the old one.

  18. #43
    I will be disappointed if they don't get another violin player. It's been a major part of their current charms. I certainly don't want the violin replaced with woodwind!

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by the ferret View Post
    I will be disappointed if they don't get another violin player. It's been a major part of their current charms. I certainly don't want the violin replaced with woodwind!
    Not suggesting that. But rather that each song be instrumented in the best possible way. The violin is always the best voice for a solo only if you have already paid for the violinist. They can still hire Rachel when they need a violin, which is how she got there in the first place.

  20. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by rdclark View Post
    Prog is about many things, but one of the important ones is virtuosity. One of the hallmarks of a virtuoso is an individual touch and style that makes them instantly identifiable to the practiced ear. Dave Gregory is a guitar virtuoso. His "voice" was an ingredient in BBT that can't be substituted without changing the taste of the stew.

    IMO, Rachel Hall was very good, but fell short of virtuosity. She's no Joshua Bell. Many other violinists could play the same parts as well, and I'm not at all certain to what extent the parts she played were written by her, rather than by one of the primary songwriter/arrangers. Some of the demos and alternates available via the BBT "Passengers Club" argue for the latter.

    I also felt that the band had come to feature the violin too much at times and would have preferred some of those violin solos to be something else. Like a guest reed player of some sort. An occasional oboe or French horn might work better than a violin on some of this stuff, for example.

    Danny Manners falls somewhere between, IMO. His playing was very strongly featured, and very important to the sound of the band, but it's less clear to me whether another equally capable keyboardist would sound much the same. Again, Spawnton's and Longdon's demos often lay out parts that are very close to what Manners and Hall played on the final record. So do Rikard SjŲblom's recent BBT demos.

    The remaining four are the creative core of the version of the band that has become so popular in the last few years. But they need a virtuoso guitarist, a top-tier keyboardist, and a roster of excellent guest musicians to sound like that band. In the studio, for their next album, I have no doubt they will be able to make a BBT record that is clearly BBT, but I expect welcome new ground to be broken. Just de-emphasizing the violin and using a better variety of solo instruments will help.

    But we can expect the live BBT to be a new and different animal. Differences that may be exciting and welcome, perhaps, but different. Those of us who never got to see the band (almost everybody in almost the entire world) with Gregory/Hall/Manners will never get to see a BBT that sounds anything like it. I look forward to the new version, but I'll always regret the lost opportunity (so close!) to see the old one.
    Many excellent points and very well made. I sometimes forget that the rest of the world has missed out on the recent live experience, but of course they have only been playing live for a few years, and those of us this side of the pond have been very fortunate. I’ll get a chance to see and compare the new version at Fryars next year, pandemic permitting.

  21. #46
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    I figured this thread was as good as any...

    Man, I gotta give Burning Shed credit for having the Summer's Lease set in my hands one week after ordering. From UK to Canada in this climate is pretty amazing!

    ...and what a beautiful set, too. Double Japanese SHM-CD with thick booklet and autographed postcard. Can't wait to dive in to the 34 minute London Song suite!
    Interviewer of reprobate ne'er-do-well musicians of the long-haired rock n' roll persuasion at: www.velvetthunder.co.uk

  22. #47
    That was quick! I received mine last week, but I’m only 50 miles from Burning Shed

    It is a lovely set, beautifully packaged and a thoughtful collection of songs. I love the stitched together London Song, I had it as a previous download but it deserves its own CD space.

  23. #48
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunlight Caller View Post
    That was quick! I received mine last week, but I’m only 50 miles from Burning Shed

    It is a lovely set, beautifully packaged and a thoughtful collection of songs. I love the stitched together London Song, I had it as a previous download but it deserves its own CD space.
    I had been procrastinating, thinking that 500 copies might last a bit longer, but when I saw them post a warning that it was likely to be sold out by the next day, I jumped on it. Man, I'm glad I did. It would be a bummer to have missed out on this... I've got a feeling I squeaked in just in time.

    Again, I'm very impressed that the postal outfits on both sides of the pond managed to get this to me in 7 days.
    Interviewer of reprobate ne'er-do-well musicians of the long-haired rock n' roll persuasion at: www.velvetthunder.co.uk

  24. #49
    Member since March 2004 mozo-pg's Avatar
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    Still waiting - patiently, not so much. I got a CD today and thought it was the new BBT release. Instead, Gregg's Allman's final release. It pretty fu@king brilliant.
    What can this strange device be? When I touch it, it brings forth a sound.

  25. #50
    I hate it, that 4 members left the band in a short period of time (5, if you count Robin Armstrong too). Really gutted that Rachel left. I thought she was essential for the sound (and background vocals) for the band.

    I had my Summer's Lease CD for a few months now. Ordered it right away from Japan, when it became available.

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