Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 70

Thread: Gerald Scarfe on the relationship between Roger Waters and Rick Wright

  1. #1

    Gerald Scarfe on the relationship between Roger Waters and Rick Wright

    I've recently finished reading The Making of Pink Floyd - The Wall by Gerald Scarfe. He became involved with Pink Floyd around the Wish You Were Here era and I was surprised to read the following comments by Scarfe regarding Rick Wright:
    "When Roger saw the finished drawing he remarked how separate Rick looked from the rest of the group. I had in fact, for convenience, drawn Rick on another piece of paper and stuck him onto the corner of the main drawing like an appendage, and that's how I think Roger saw Rick - 'an appendage', a non-contributing member of the group, and he was pretty open about it, which can't have done much for Rick's fragile confidence. Roger saw my drawing as symbolic. Rick always seemed isolated, set apart from the other three. I found him a very nice, gentle man, introverted and strangely shy and silent. I can't remember him offering any comment about my work at all but I felt it was his shyness rather than disinterest."

    Given that much of Wish You Were Here features Rick's unmistakable abilities as a composer and a player, it is strange that Scarfe felt that Roger saw Rick as non-contributing at that time.

    These are Nick Mason's comments regarding Rick - also from the book:
    "I think we all sort of carry a bit of guilt about Syd, but also slightly the same about Rick, that he became a little bit the one who was pushed out. I always think if it hadn't been for Rick it could have been me".

    BTW I can highly recommend the book.

    This is the drawing referred to:
    Attached Images Attached Images
    "One should never magnify the harsh light of reality with the mirror of prose onto the delicate wings of fantasy's butterfly"
    Thumpermonkey - How I Wrote The French Lieutenant's Woman

  2. #2
    I'm behind on my Pink Floyd reading. I still haven't gotten Nick's book. I've never seen that drawing before, but it looks like a typically zany Scarfe drawing. Back when I was in high school, I borrowed a coffee table book covering his entire career up to the mid 80's. There's a bit where he talks about how Eric Clapton didn't like the drawing Gerald did of him for the Pros And Cons Of Hitchhiking tour program. He said he always got a bad vibe from Eric.

    I'd still love to see A Long Drawn Out Trip, the psychedelic animated film Gerald did in the early 70's. Apparently, it can't ever be released because it depicts Mickey Mouse having an acid trip, and of course, the rat bastards at Disney won't allow that to be seen by the public.

    As for Roger's attitude about Rick, I get the impression Roger likes to think he did everything in Pink Floyd himself. I remember when Rolling Stone did a big cover story back in 87 or 88 on the whole fracas at the time, and he's whining about how "Those are MY songs" that new look Pink Floyd were playing on tour. No, dude, those might be your lyrics, but Dave and Rick contributed a great deal to those songs, to make them listenable. And from what I gather, on The Wall, Bob Ezrin contributed a lot too. If they were YOUR songs, solely, they'd sound like that dren on your solo records.

  3. #3
    Jon Neudorf
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
    Posts
    384
    Well, his last solo album is excellent as is Amused to Death. In my opinion of course.

  4. #4
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Utopia
    Posts
    2,897
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    I've never seen that drawing before, but it looks like a typically zany Scarfe drawing.
    It was the center spread of the 1975 tour program, which was in the form of a comic book.
    New album THE HIPCRIME VOCAB available now!
    https://michaelpdawson.bandcamp.com
    "Ide o zmes prog rocku, cosmic music, electronic music a classical music. Prekvapivá a dosť divoká hudobná jazda je vo výslednom efekte znamenitá." - Martin Slávik

  5. #5
    I think Richard Wright is under-rated, and especially by Roger. There's no question the output from WYWH to The Wall is classic and great as it is but, at the same time, there was probably a lot more than Rick could have contributed on keys and even on vocals (he sounds great on Time). I know he did "Wearing The Inside Out" later with DG's Floyd and it's pretty good. That whole era had a whole different 80s approach sonically. I like a lot of it, although Roger's lyrics in the 70s remain unmatched even by Roger himself as well as post-Roger Floyd lacks that poetic quality that the mid to late 70s Floyd albums have. But, that spacey sound and trippy keys Rick did sort of went away after WYWH. It's a shame because that was another dimension to the band. By the time they got to The Final Cut they completely lost that aspect. It gained that Wall orchestral element but lost that Rick Wright synth thing... even though it's possible that both Waters and Gilmour are responsible for some of the keyboards we think were Rick (such as the Synthi sequencing on DSOTM). But, still, even the things we know he contributed are still fantastic and under-rated.

    Roger was great but he had a real hard time appreciating what his band mates had to offer. His insecurities traded their potential together for one classic album, The Wall, and then lots of misc extra hit and miss tracks all below that standard since. Of course that's just one opinion but still... I don't think I'm the only one who could imagine what that band could have done with the success of DSTOM as both a creative and financial foundation to build upon.

  6. #6
    Its totally bonkers to me that Waters, and even Gilmour, stated Wright wasn't carrying the load or doing his part. Gilmour himSELF wasn't carrying the load by his own admission in interviews. Without Wright, they SURELY would not have had that Pink Floyd sound. He was a beautiful writer and vocalist, Remember A Day just for starters. He was as far as I understand it, the only one with a music background and could read music. He brought SO MUCH to their sound. They wouldn't have been PF without him.
    For fuck sake, Mason and Wright said on numerous occasions how Waters eviscerated them and destroyed any confidence they had in their abilities, hence all those studio guys he brought in. Gilmour had begun to bow out after the Animals tour and didn't carry his weight either, just sayin.
    Wright was amazing.

  7. #7
    Member Paulrus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    The Left Coast
    Posts
    1,481
    I think in Waters' eyes, unless you were contributing significantly as a songwriter, you weren't pulling your weight. Nick didn't count because, well -- he was a drummer.
    I'm holding out for the Wilson-mixed 5.1 super-duper walletbuster special anniversary extra adjectives edition.

  8. #8
    It's almost as if Roger Waters is a dick or something.
    “your ognna pay pay with my wrath of ballbat”

    Bandcamp Profile

  9. #9
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    in a cosmic jazzy-groove around Brussels
    Posts
    4,287
    TBH, I don't really see Wright being set acast in that drawing, at least not anymore than Mason in the opposite corner. I guess that maybe Scarfe drew Waters and Gilmour +/- facing Mason (thus turning their back on Wright) gives that impression.
    One would bave to see when that drawing took place (was it closer to WYWH-era or during the Animals days?)
    This said, indeed Wright always appeared to me to be the quieter (more fragile?) guy in the band, and it's quite sad that he was indeed let go. I don't see Wright being a future cast out of the band until after Animals, though; given his great contribution on WYWH.


    I can totally see where Waters could've arrived to the conclusion of a non-contributing member (Nick being the band's archivist), after Rick Wright released all of his remaining musical ideas on Wet Dreams - not that Gilmour did much different with his own solo album, but two of The Wall's huge Gilmour tracks come from the Animal and DG sessions >> Run Like Hell and Numb.


    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    As for Roger's attitude about Rick, I get the impression Roger likes to think he did everything in Pink Floyd himself. I remember when Rolling Stone did a big cover story back in 87 or 88 on the whole fracas at the time, and he's whining about how "Those are MY songs" that new look Pink Floyd were playing on tour. No, dude, those might be your lyrics, but Dave and Rick contributed a great deal to those songs, to make them listenable. And from what I gather, on The Wall, Bob Ezrin contributed a lot too. If they were YOUR songs, solely, they'd sound like that dren on your solo records.
    Well RS was already a crap paper back then, out for a good feud-fuelling headlines, but yeah, Roger lost the plot in that later-80's episode.

    Quote Originally Posted by Squids View Post
    I don't think I'm the only one who could imagine what that band could have done with the success of DSTOM as both a creative and financial foundation to build upon.
    I think you're forgetting that by 78/9, Floyd was bankrupt, because of ill-advised investments from their managers (including their own studio). And that only Waters and Steve Rourke worked their asses off to save the band for drowing, while Dave, Rick & Nick were out doing this & that in their respective musical adventures (solo and discovering Kate Bush) or sporting amusement (Nick's car collection), and doing very little (read: nothing) to keep the sinking boat afloat. From that perspective, one can see why Waters would claim Floyd as being "his band".

    Quote Originally Posted by gpeccary View Post
    Its totally bonkers to me that Waters, and even Gilmour, stated Wright wasn't carrying the load or doing his part. Gilmour himSELF wasn't carrying the load by his own admission in interviews.
    Well, at least Gilmour can admit that even he wasn't doing much in terms of saving the band's arse during the critical finances crisis days...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mascodagama View Post
    It's almost as if Roger Waters is a dick or something.
    Well there is some of that too.

    ===================

    Oh, MT will be in to pester me in a few moments

    5, 4, 3, 2, 1....
    Last edited by Trane; 3 Weeks Ago at 03:39 PM.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post



    I think you're forgetting that by 78/9, Floyd was bankrupt, because of ill-advised investments from their managers (including their own studio). And that only Waters and Steve Rourke worked their asses off to save the band for drowing, while Dave, Rick & Nick were out doing this & that in their respective musical adventures (solo and discovering Kate Bush) or sporting amusement (Nick's car collection), and doing very little (read: nothing) to keep the sinking boat afloat. From that perspective, one can see why Waters would claim Floyd as being "his band".
    Wasn't it both Dave and Nick who wanted to keep the Wall tour going albeit a scaled down version?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Squids View Post
    ... But, that spacey sound and trippy keys Rick did sort of went away after WYWH. It's a shame because that was another dimension to the band. By the time they got to The Final Cut they completely lost that aspect. It gained that Wall orchestral element but lost that Rick Wright synth thing...
    I did not think about it before but you are right. Even on PF albums without RW those keyboards which are the PF signature were gone. Why is that? It is interesting... now we are asking to have something repeated when other times we claim that artists repeats themself.

  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Waterloo, IA, USA
    Posts
    798
    Quote Originally Posted by Squids View Post
    But, that spacey sound and trippy keys Rick did sort of went away after WYWH.
    Far be it from me to talk keyboards with you, as I know you know your stuff, but for me Animals is still a mighty fine showcase for Wright's skills. His contributions to 'Dogs' and 'Sheep' (the intro rhodes and the middle section) are especially striking and as crucial to the vibe of the album as anything on WYWH, IMHO.
    David
    Happy with what I have to be happy with.

  13. #13
    Member MarKco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Venice, Italy
    Posts
    25
    Thank you for this post, the quotes were really really interesting to me. Thank you.
    http://www.marcozanetti.it

    Triste č l'uomo
    che ama le cose
    solo quando si allontanano.
    (Baolian, libro dei pensieri Baol, I, vv. 1240-1242)

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    3,226
    Quote Originally Posted by proggy_jazzer View Post
    Far be it from me to talk keyboards with you, as I know you know your stuff, but for me Animals is still a mighty fine showcase for Wright's skills. His contributions to 'Dogs' and 'Sheep' (the intro rhodes and the middle section) are especially striking and as crucial to the vibe of the album as anything on WYWH, IMHO.
    That icy synth-led section in the middle of 'Dogs' is exceptional. Chilly and bleak as hell. Animals still feels like a band album to me.

    The Wall saw cracks appearing (so to speak). As noted, Gilmour did side with Waters with regards to Wright, agreeing that Wright didn't have any material. But Gilmour at least had a lot of vocals/solos on the album. I don't sense that Waters/Wright were ever that close on a personal level.

    The Final Cut is where they were not really a functioning band anymore; it shows. Having said that, I still like The Final Cut more than Waters' 80s solo albums!

  15. #15
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    6,609
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    Having said that, I still like The Final Cut more than Waters' 80s solo albums!
    Damning with faint praise for me.
    Ian

    Gordon Haskell - "You've got to keep the groove in your head and play a load of bollocks instead"
    I blame Wynton, what was the question?
    There are only 10 types of people in the World, those who understand binary and those that don't.

  16. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    3,226
    Well, quite. I was playing Radio KAOS the other day and that's aged horribly.

    The Final Cut has some stunning moments but it's not a fully satisfying album like its predecessors IMHO.

  17. #17
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    in a cosmic jazzy-groove around Brussels
    Posts
    4,287
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    The Wall saw cracks appearing (so to speak). As noted, Gilmour did side with Waters with regards to Wright, agreeing that Wright didn't have any material. But Gilmour at least had a lot of vocals/solos on the album. I don't sense that Waters/Wright were ever that close on a personal level.

    The Final Cut is where they were not really a functioning band anymore; it shows. Having said that, I still like The Final Cut more than Waters' 80s solo albums!
    TBH, Gilmour's contribution (IMHO, +/- 33% of the process once it got down to the studio) certainly helped The Wall being the success it did, and not just because of the few songs he brought in. What Dave does is stellar, really!!
    As for Mason, he did what was expected from him in previous albums: drumming and tape effects, so you can't really flaw him for that either.

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    Well, quite. I was playing Radio KAOS the other day and that's aged horribly.
    80's production valuers all over it, much like AMLOR

    But I think that despite the deary concept some of those songs (as in songwriting proper) are quite good . Maybe Waters should give it the same "erasing the 80's production" process as for AMLOR, but that won't make the lyrics more actual, though. And it's bound to be at a financial loss, unless included/released in a boxset.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  18. #18
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Utopia
    Posts
    2,897
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    Well, quite. I was playing Radio KAOS the other day and that's aged horribly.
    It didn't have to age horribly, it was pretty horrible to begin with. The stuff with Jim Ladd and the vocoder "Billy" voice is just unbearable.

    I always wondered what the connection with this was--it was in regular rotation on the Dr. Demento show, and both Dr. Demento and Jim Ladd were on KMET.

    New album THE HIPCRIME VOCAB available now!
    https://michaelpdawson.bandcamp.com
    "Ide o zmes prog rocku, cosmic music, electronic music a classical music. Prekvapivá a dosť divoká hudobná jazda je vo výslednom efekte znamenitá." - Martin Slávik

  19. #19
    I remember being underwhelmed by Radio Kaos when it was released, and thinking that it sounded lifeless and a bit poor lyrically. I remember missing the warm, layered sound of TFC and TPACOHH.
    Regarding Rick Wright, I missed him on all PF albums after Animals, even on TDB where he was clearly heard again. On TER a kind of balance between guitar and keyboards was found again, with Gilmour taking a step back from the flashy "solos everywhere" approach, and letting Wright re-gain his space in the PF sound as a posthumous homage.

  20. #20
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    3,226
    I'm afraid I find The Endless River tedious and New Age-y. The closing song is appalling ('diss each other on sight', goodness me). I didn't expect much given its origins, anyway. But it's by far and away the weakest album to have the Pink Floyd name, IMHO. But some on here rave about it, so what do I know.

    I dare say Radio KAOS wasn't that cheap to make but at its worst, it still sounds like a guy let loose with a Bontempi keyboard.

  21. #21
    The Endless River may indeed not be everyone's cup of tea, and I'm not enthusiastic about it, especially not when Gilmour/Samson become a parody of themselves on the closing track, but at least it pays homage to early Floyd and, to some extent, to Rick Wright's role in it. At least on a symbolic level, I find it nice that the quiet keyboard player is given a bit of the attention he deserves.

  22. #22
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    3,226
    The studio albums could be patchy but late 60s/early 70s Floyd was pretty fiery live. They left the studio versions of many songs for dust in those days. The Endless River was pretty slick and sedate for the most part. The Division Bell was a better studio album to finish up on IMHO.

    As for Wright's two solo albums, ISTR quite liking Wet Dream but I find Broken China a slog to get through.

  23. #23
    RW's moody synths, Hammond, minimoog leads, and electric piano are all over Animals. Unless someone else wrote or played tnose parts, RW pulled his own weight on Animals. What an F’in great album.

  24. #24
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    small town in ND
    Posts
    4,529
    Quote Originally Posted by Mascodagama View Post
    It's almost as if Roger Waters is a dick or something.
    True. In retrospect, I think Roger is a like a lot of our heroes in the arts, unyielding in asserting his will to achieve his own vision and often at the expense of others who would collaborate. A band can operate under those circumstances for only so long before shit implodes, especially when other members have a conflicting vision. Pete Townsend would be on one end of this scale, David Byrne the other. Waters probably is not quite Byrne. But he's certainly rubbed the other members of Floyd the wrong way.

    NP: In the Flesh Live (magnificent but it takes a boatload of musicians to replicate the sounds of what was originally four guys).
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  25. #25
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Frederick, MD
    Posts
    88
    Quote Originally Posted by Adinfinitum View Post
    RW's moody synths, Hammond, minimoog leads, and electric piano are all over Animals. Unless someone else wrote or played tnose parts, RW pulled his own weight on Animals. What an F’in great album.
    Yes, sir. Absolutely agree.

    To be honest, when I think Floyd my mind hears Gilmour's guitar and Wright's organ/synths. I know Waters wrote most of the stuff, but it was the tasty playing that I enjoyed. Many a blunt was sparked to the vibe of Rick's playing.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •