Alas, I've never found the third one, unless it has been released a long time ago.Originally Posted by TheH
Alas, I've never found the third one, unless it has been released a long time ago.
The third one War Dance was done by Esoteric. The second Electric Savage was a Japan only release I think but not
to long ago (2016?) and can be found for moderate Prices with some luck.
Electric savage is the one missing. Never found it. Perhaps Esoteric will re-release it some time. One never knows.
Found some other live Coloseum II stuff on YouTube.
Amazon Germany sells it for 18.30 EUR, which is ok for a Japanese SHM release.
Yes there is some great live Colosseum II on YT, just listening to the 77 Köln (Cologne) concert.
Yes I don't know what's going on with that, seeing as they re-released the other two.
The old Sanctuary Strange New Flesh had a BBC In Concert on the 2nd disc. This was not ported over onto the Esoteric re-release however, so it's often overlooked.
https://www.discogs.com/Colosseum-II...elease/4539248
Similarly Tempest's In Concert (with the short-lived Holdsworth/Halsall line-up) was on the Sanctuary release Under The Blossom.
Looked on the Amazon Germany site, because I order a lot there, but didn't see it.
Oh, so I have the Castle one with the three live tracks, always thougt I had the Esoteric release..
https://www.amazon.de/Electric-Savag...s=music&sr=1-2
Thanks. Put it on my wishlist.
Probably shouldn't even bother but; Wow. The man butchered his own band's legacy, imagine that. The nerve. Seems like he would have cared more.How many of these so called specialists have spent the time and effort restoring and compiling their own band's work I wonder. Oh, it's all so toss off worthy. JUDGEMENT RULES!
BTW, how do they get away with charging this much now for such a piss poor product? https://www.amazon.co.uk/79-10-Box-G...6757721&sr=8-1
What? 29 5 star ratings?! Those specialists need to straighten these people out and show them the light!
^ The word early on was that Eroc was compressing the shit out of his remasters. Almost universal criticism back then. Maybe the criticism caused him to reassess his approach, idk. Perhaps Ken Golden can chime in, he undoubtedly knows much more than I do about this.
The original release of 'Strange New Flesh' wasn't great, however all the subsequent releases have been over-compressed.
Esoteric are usually very good, maintaining best available master and dynamic range, however their release of the first album is compressed too.
I guess they can only work with the masters they are given, and they appear to have re-used the same master in 2012 as the Castle release in 2005.
I have the US version of 'War Dance' from 1993, which is reasonably good, so never took the plunge on the Esoteric version.
I still think that remasters from better sources must be available, and be given the production and care we would all wish for.
Yup, you shouldn't have botheredProbably shouldn't even bother but; Wow. The man butchered his own band's legacy, imagine that. The nerve. Seems like he would have cared more.
;
Ever heard of botched-up remasters during the loudness wars years?? Grobschnitt's 90's Repertoire CDs are generally better appreciated than Eroc's own 00's remasters (BTW, 29 5* ratings on Ama-zone is worth diddley-squat, especially for such a hi-price thingie
BTW, how much bitchering does it take to fill in 79:10minutes of music on each disc - if I read the French review correctly
cos....
Same thing with Peter Hammill "butchering" the VDGG remasters and early solo works.
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.
I've had an impression these titles were initially sold as downloads only via Bandcamp, so it's good to see them officially released on physical formats too:
https://www.repertoirerecords.com/5-...n-on-cd-vinyl/
I'll definitely pick Boston '69 (great one - I have a boot), Montreux '69 (sounds good) and Kent/Brighton/Manchester '71 (although I already have their boxset that includes material from the second disc).
I am going to skip the other two though: Turku '71 (weak performance, had a boot and sold it off) and Rome '71 (poor sound quality).
As for Colosseum II they had a disadvantage of not having Phil Collins on drums; otherwise they'd have been mentioned in the same breath as Brand X.Anyway, I'd gladly pick a comprehensive set of their BBC recordings, which should have been assembled long time ago. Some extra live releases would be welcome too.
Last edited by Jay.Dee; 08-07-2020 at 08:47 AM.
https://theafterword.co.uk/colosseum-live-71/
"The first thing that strikes you about this new 2CD live album from Colosseum, professionally recorded across several shows in early 1971, is how sensational it sounds. Vibrant, clear, sparkling, dynamic and alive. Mixing/mastering engineer Eroc (one Joachim Ehrig, a pro recording artist in bands and solo, as Eroc, from the 70s to the 90s, now a mastering maestro) has done an astounding job!
Is Eroc’s mastering of the items on this disc better than the previous two outings? I believe it is. Others with more time can do a more comprehensive A/B, but from a few minutes each of two tracks compared between the Esoteric release and the Repertoire one, it’s clear that there is more warmth and depth in Eroc’s mastering without sacrificing any of the presence; Wiseman’s mastering on the Esoteric release is good, but chooses to emphasize the top end, with a slight harshness (albeit plenty of punch). At the very least, Eroc brings something fresh to the tracks on this disc."
Whatever you do, don't buy this 2 CD set Trane. You just can't trust this reviewer's ears. Where's Jeff Carney when you need him? Oh, yeah, he got Eroc to remaster some of his own music recently. What was he thinking?
https://elusivedisc.com/jeff-carney-...-journeys-2lp/
Yeah...Rome is particularly disappointing. I still haven't managed to make it all the way through after two attempts at trying. Which is a shame as its the longest show there. I will definitely be getting the Boston and Finland ones (I don't find it weak...although there is that annoying fade out). If that last one has good sound quality, I"ll probably risk it and just buy.I've had an impression these titles were initially sold as downloads only via Bandcamp, so it's good to see them officially released on physical formats too:
https://www.repertoirerecords.com/5-...n-on-cd-vinyl/
I'll definitely pick Boston '69 (great one - I have a boot), Montreux '69 (sounds good) and Kent/Brighton/Manchester '71 (although I already have their boxset that includes material from the second disc).
I am going to skip the other two though: Turku '71 (weak performance, had a boot and sold it off) and Rome '71 (poor sound quality).
As for Colosseum II they had a disadvantage of not having Phil Collins on drums; otherwise they'd have been mentioned in the same breath as Brand X.
Please don't ask questions, just use google.
Never let good music get in the way of making a profit.
I'm only here to reglaze my bathtub.
Don't piss your panties on this issue
All I said was that "I'm not sure Eroc was the right man for this". BTW, I love Grobschnitt's debut and SML (not that keen on the rest), but I heard the difference between the remaster and repertoire at an audiophile buddy's house, and I held off... Just like I've returned to the first gen VdGG CDs (dirt-cheap back then) after discovering how bad the remasters (I still kept the three I'd bought before discovering the flaw for the bonus tracks) were on high-end Hi-Fi chain that are relatively unforgiving
Of Colosseum: I was already sold to the idea of buying the Litherland gigs (despite my Eroc doubts). The Clempson gig, I'm still not sure about: I don't think he did a bad singing job on The Grass Is Greener US album or on parts of Daughter Of Time he sang on, but I don't think his voice matches Butty or Farlowe's, so I was thinking maybe not, we'll see whatever comes from returns (elsewhere than ama-zone, of course
As for the Farlowe gigs, while I love the extended Live, I'm not sure I needed the extra stuff that wouldn't be on that CD.
I'd be happy to see a track list of all five discs to help me decide, as I don't like to buy a cat in a bag.
As for Carney, we all read him and often agreed with him or at least respected highly his PoV (not sure whether you did) when it came to the loudness wars and I thought (or hoped) that your link would point to his opinion of this Colosseum batch (or botch?
I was less sold on his (JC's) Sabbath-is-god addiction, though
Last edited by Trane; 08-08-2020 at 03:42 AM.
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.
Montreaux
Valentyne Suite (original with Ides of March)
Mandarin
Butty's Blues
Time Machine
Turku
Rope Ladder
The Machine demands
Downhill and Shadows
Lost Angeles
Walking in the Park
Rome
Rope Ladder
Skellington
Tanglewood
Time Machine
Boston Tea Party
Butty's Blues
The Machine demands
Valentyne Suite
'71
Disc One
Live at Canterbury University of Kent, 1971
01 Tanglewood ’63 13.08
02 Rope Ladder To The Moon 8.27
03 Walking In The Park 8.02
03 Skellington 12.40
04 The Machine Demands A Sacrifice 14.37
05 Lost Angeles 15.52
Recorded live in concert at the
University of Kent, 12 February 1971 with the Granada mobile
Disc Two
Live In Brighton, 1971
01 Rope Ladder To The Moon 10.45
02 Skellington 14.07
Live In Manchester, 1971
03 I Can’t Live Without You/The Time Machine/ The Machine Demands A Sacrifice 21.37
04 The Valentyne Suite 21.13
January’s Search
February’s Valentyne
The Grass Is Always Greener
05 Stormy Monday Blues 5.11
Last edited by TheH; 08-08-2020 at 11:49 AM.
^^^ Thanks for the tracklist. It is disappointing that the live 1971 replicates exactly Disc 3 of the Morituri set when it sounds like other versions were available. But as long as they price it like a single disc, I'll consider it. I just noticed that Butty and Machine from Boston Tea Party are on the Morituri set, so not much new there either. I had forgotten where those live versions were from.
A coincidence: I have been enjoying some Byrds boots this week and one really good one is Boston 1970. I checked the notes and that was the Tea Party as well, same night as Colosseum. Kind of hard to imagine listening to Byrds after a Colosseum set!
You should allways take the statements of these (self-proclaimed) "specialists" with a grain of salt. Sound quality evaluation and perception is a very subjective (and highly debatable) matter. Eroc's bad reputation (as a mastering engineer) is mostly undesserved, and calling him a "sound butcherer" a bit too much. I've heard many much more over-compressed reissues by other very reputable mastering engineers. Remember this was a general trend in the (re)mastering world still a few years ago. You may like his work or not but I would suggest listening carefully and without any preconceived ideas to his remastered version of Grobshnitt's classic Rockpommels Land and compare it to any previous versions (including the vinyl), and THEN make your own idea. To my ears it sounds excellent and full of (previously unheard) sonic details. Also Eroc's remastering of his own repertoire (EROC 1 to 4) is very listenable, and much better than my vinyl copies. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater just because some "experts" have unilaterally decreed that Eroc is a "sonic butcher" and the info has been endlessly amplified and propagated in the web structure. You know, the "it's a well-know fact" syndrome... Listen with open ears (and mind).
As far as the Colloseum Live set albums are concerned, considering the age and source of the raw material I wouldn't expect miracles, even if it was Steven Wilson himself behind the mastering console.
I'm not really interested by this but would jump on a similar Colloseum II (two) live set package in a heartbeat.
Last edited by Mr.Krautman; 08-12-2020 at 06:22 AM.
Mr. K - Is that the Rogue Tomato in your icon?
Cobra handling and cocaine use are a bad mix.
^ It's the cover of Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso -...Di Terra.
Weird coincidence -- I literally just sat down with my copy of Di Terra after finally finding it in my disorganized CD shelf.
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