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Thread: Artists You Have To Like (Or Else)

  1. #51
    Member since March 2004 mozo-pg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunRunner2 View Post
    No.

    (apparently)
    I should have added a - just a sacred cow so I was fooling around.
    What can this strange device be? When I touch it, it brings forth a sound.

  2. #52
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    Prince was a pretty talented guy, and like many artists, a lot of his best songs IMO were the deeper album tracks that didn't get played on the radio.

    Kate Bush is fantastic, and I have put in a request to the mods for her submission in this thread to be stricken from the record, and for the offending parties to have Nelson from the Simpsons point and laugh at them all day long for the next month.
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  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by markwoll View Post
    [...] IMHO, nobody is worth that.
    Hmm... I've never heard about Prince "treating" his audiences to excessive wait times, but in terms of being worth it or not -- for me it all depends on who the performers are, and the reason for the delay.


    Quote Originally Posted by Progatron View Post
    Prince was a pretty talented guy, and like many artists, a lot of his best songs IMO were the deeper album tracks that didn't get played on the radio.
    This was pretty much my experience. Same for Genesis, David Bowie, Todd Rundgren, and many other favorites of mine.


    Quote Originally Posted by Progatron View Post
    Kate Bush is fantastic, and I have put in a request to the mods for her submission in this thread to be stricken from the record, and for the offending parties to have Nelson from the Simpsons point and laugh at them all day long for the next month.

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by aith01 View Post
    Heresy.

    But seriously... Kate's a legend, and rightly so. She was a pioneer of her time -- c'mon guys, she was one of the earliest people to utilize the Fairlight CMI, which she used on her albums starting in 1980! She also paved the way for other idiosyncratic female artists like Bjork and Tori Amos (who the record label wanted to be another Kate Bush, but that didn't happen).

    (Cue the Bjork and Tori Amos haters now...)
    Pioneer? I guess, in some ways. To me, she seemed exactly "of her time," when I first started hearing her stuff in the early 80s. And there were plenty of idiosyncratic female artists in the mid/late 70s. I'm not saying Kate Bush wasn't influential, but I wouldn't lay Bjork and Tori Amos strictly at Kate Bush's feet. FWIW, I'm not a super fan of either of them either, though at least in Bjork and Tori Amos' cases I like some of their songs. Not a super fan, though. There's really nothing by Kate Bush that I've enjoyed musically.

    Quote Originally Posted by aith01 View Post
    Prince's music, dull? He was so all over the map during his lifespan, and that's not an exaggeration. His music may be many things, but "dull" is not a word I'd ever use to describe it (except maybe for the song "Purple Rain").

    Bill, I respect your opinion on a lot of things, but this one really caught me by surprise. I just... I dunno. I think you guys are missing out, that's really what it comes down to. I didn't "discover" Prince's music until after his death really. My parents did not like him so I was never exposed to his music growing up (other than the radio staples) and I never understood why people hailed him as a genius -- until I actually heard enough of his music to realize that those people were right, and I was wrong. He ranks right up there with Bowie in terms of artistic vision and breadth of work.

    What would a prog forum be without disagreement, right?
    OK, he's all over the map. So what? If I don't like any of the music I've heard by him, he could cover every genre imaginable but if I don't like how he works in those styles, what difference does it make?. Mind you, I'm not disputing he's a talented musician (though I think people over-rate his guitar playing which I'd say is good, but not great), or that he wrote compositions that appeal to a lot of people. I'm just saying none of it appeals to me. I also have nothing against him personally. Yeah, for a while he came across as a bit "arrogant," but what's new? He did seem like a pretty good guy deep down, and I was sorry when he died. I just don't see what's so super exciting about his music. People were freaking out over 1999, I still can't believe it. I guess for dance music, it's OK, but to me those were dull, repetitive songs with piss-poor production. I sampled a lot of varied stuff by him after he died and people were extolling his virtues. None of it did anything for me.

    I think what you want me to say is that while I don't "like" the music these artists made, that I "respect" them for what they accomplished. There are artists like that for me, Zappa and Magma come to mind. I'm sure there are some in the pop world... U2 perhaps. Probably some others. I just got nothing with Price and Kate Bush. I think their popularity is a product of elements beyond their music, performance aspects, their "personas," their looks, and possibly lyrics (I confess I've never listened too deeply to either artist's lyrics). But at a pure musical level, I just don't just don't connect Kate Bush or Prince in any way. It's my loss, don't worry about it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Progatron View Post
    Kate Bush is fantastic, and I have put in a request to the mods for her submission in this thread to be stricken from the record, and for the offending parties to have Nelson from the Simpsons point and laugh at them all day long for the next month.
    I think we've found the true "or else" artist! My work here is done.

    Bill

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    Pioneer? I guess, in some ways. To me, she seemed exactly "of her time," when I first started hearing her stuff in the early 80s. And there were plenty of idiosyncratic female artists in the mid/late 70s. I'm not saying Kate Bush wasn't influential, but I wouldn't lay Bjork and Tori Amos strictly at Kate Bush's feet. FWIW, I'm not a super fan of either of them either, though at least in Bjork and Tori Amos' cases I like some of their songs. Not a super fan, though. There's really nothing by Kate Bush that I've enjoyed musically.
    Well, I've never heard anyone else who sounds like Kate Bush during the late 70s and throughout the 80s, except for maybe Peter Gabriel. Certainly no one who was as popular as she was. So in my view, yeah I think she was a pioneer -- in more ways than one, considering her early adoption of the Fairlight CMI in what was essentially pop music. And she was a self-taught pianist/keyboardist, so her approach to writing was affected by that. It's not because of her idiosyncrasies that I call her a pioneer, those are just the icing on the cake. If you disagree, that's fine. C'est la vie. Believe me, I'm used to it in my circles.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    OK, he's all over the map. So what?
    The point I was trying to make is he's not an artist you can pigeonhole, and that I have a feeling there are Prince songs you would actually dig (if you didn't know they were by Prince).


    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    I think what you want me to say is that while I don't "like" the music these artists made, that I "respect" them for what they accomplished.
    Actually I don't want that, my objective really was just to provide some counter-argument so that this thread doesn't become an echo chamber -- the aforementioned "safe space".


    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    [...] with Prince and Kate Bush. I think their popularity is a product of elements beyond their music, performance aspects, their "personas," their looks, and possibly lyrics
    On this I disagree. I'm living proof that their music connects with people -- even skeptics -- without all the other stuff outside of their music. I wasn't old enough during either artist's heyday, so I never got to witness their personas, concerts, music videos, etc. In fact, Prince's persona actually put me off listening to him initially until I learned that wasn't who he really was. Their music is what hooked me. I know I'm not the only one.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    It's my loss, don't worry about it!


    Edit: I forgot to mention a friend of mine, who's quite a few years younger than I am. His favorite artist is Bjork, but about 10 years ago he discovered Kate Bush -- now he loves her music too. His favorite album of hers is The Hounds of Love. It does happen.
    Last edited by aith01; 08-03-2020 at 05:53 PM.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by markwoll View Post
    My wife laments that she never got to go to a Prince show. I wouldn't buy tickets.
    His music was never all that to me, but pretty much everyone I know ( and most reviews ) said that he treated his audience to excessive wait times beyond the official start ( sometimes hours ).
    IMHO, nobody is worth that.
    Well, it wouldn't have killed you to buy the tickets and take her to the concert. I did that for the Lady Gaga concert in Chicago, but then she fell and broke her hip and couldn't perform for some time after that.

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by aith01 View Post
    The point I was trying to make is he's not an artist you can pigeonhole, and that I have a feeling there are Prince songs you would actually dig (if you didn't know they were by Prince).
    Lay some samples on me, I'll try again.

    Quote Originally Posted by aith01 View Post
    On this I disagree. I'm living proof that their music connects with people -- even skeptics -- without all the other stuff outside of their music.
    I probably should have said "mass" popularity. Just about every artist that releases something connects with somebody. I just think the mass appeal of these artists was influenced by other factors. But that's true of lots of other artists as well.

    Bill

  8. #58
    Outraged bystander markwoll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunRunner2 View Post
    Well, it wouldn't have killed you to buy the tickets and take her to the concert. I did that for the Lady Gaga concert in Chicago, but then she fell and broke her hip and couldn't perform for some time after that.
    Don't even start with that. I have seen some very nice shows with my wife. Barry Manilow ( twice ), for one. And I bought the tickets.
    I just won't show up and wait forever for a show. The stories about Prince were fairly early in his career ( 80's and early 90's )
    Been there, done that for stuff that was not 'all that' ( I'm looking at You, UK nearfest 2012 ).
    Technical difficulties, like seeing U2 outdoors a few hours after a unexpected thunderstorm came through.
    They tried to fix up their 'magic stage show' ( for Pop ) but gave up after an hour of delay ( with apologies ) and made the best of it. Good show too.
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
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  9. #59
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    I have some sacred cows I don't like but everyone does. Actually I think PE is kinda terrible about this. Reading prog fans' thoughts on basic three chord rock or R&B is kinda like listening to nuns talk about sex.
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    Lay some samples on me, I'll try again.
    The problem is you'll already know they're Prince songs. I've been down this road before with trying to get my brother to come around to Cardiacs.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    I probably should have said "mass" popularity. Just about every artist that releases something connects with somebody. I just think the mass appeal of these artists was influenced by other factors. But that's true of lots of other artists as well.

    Bill
    I think that's a bit unfair though. If you're saying that Prince or Kate Bush wouldn't have risen so high in popularity without things like public persona, image, performance etc. -- yeah, you're probably right. But I think Prince's music itself especially connected with more people than you give him credit for (I could name several in my immediate circle, some of whom are just average folks, and some of whom are professional musicians). It's easy to write off someone we don't like as just being popular because of superficial reasons -- I've done that plenty myself over the years, and had to eat my words when I realized how talented Justin Timberlake actually is. Went out and bought his 20/20 Experience album too, on the day of release.

    If we take Bowie as an example: Very popular for a long while, had a kind of strange or eccentric public image (well, more than one actually ) that got him a lot of attention, and overall was a bit larger-than-life and/or controversial for reasons outside of his music. He had highs and lows in his career, but when he dropped off the face of the earth for 10 years (on the health-related hiatus), his music remained in the public consciousness. People were still listening to it, and a new generation was discovering it. We're not talking about someone like Britney Spears, or N'Sync, whose popularity based on their musical abilities (playing and writing) is a lot less credible (IMO).

    Bowie made music that connected with a lot of people on its own merits. Prince is no different in that regard, IMO (and Kate too, although I think her audience was ultimately a fair bit smaller). I suppose time will tell whether I'm wrong or right on that one.

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by aith01 View Post
    The problem is you'll already know they're Prince songs.
    I promise to be as open minded as possible. I largely hate Bruce Springsteen, but there are several of his songs that I like a lot, and I like much of the Nebraska album. I don't dismiss music I like because it's from an artist I don't generally like. In the case of Prince, I've just literally never heard a song of his I enjoy - even ones he wrote for other artists.

    Quote Originally Posted by aith01 View Post
    I've been down this road before with trying to get my brother to come around to Cardiacs.
    Another band I dislike. I'm guess I'm just the slayer of PE sacred cows!

    Quote Originally Posted by aith01 View Post
    I think that's a bit unfair though. If you're saying that Prince or Kate Bush wouldn't have risen so high in popularity without things like public persona, image, performance etc. -- yeah, you're probably right. But I think Prince's music itself especially connected with more people than you give him credit for (I could name several in my immediate circle, some of whom are just average folks, and some of whom are professional musicians). It's easy to write off someone we don't like as just being popular because of superficial reasons -- I've done that plenty myself over the years, and had to eat my words when I realized how talented Justin Timberlake actually is. Went out and bought his 20/20 Experience album too, on the day of release.
    Well, who said life was fair?

    Talent, to me, has nothing to do with it. I can hear the talent in tons of artists from pop tarts to Neo-Prog dudes. The issue to me is does their music resonate with me? I don't want or need to hear a great singer sing a shitty song (meaning a song that I think is shitty). Likewise, there are lots of artists who are less technically talented whose music resonates with me. Neil Young has been mentioned as one people don't like. I can understand that, but for me a good bit (not all) of his stuff works. I'm not like an uber fan, but there's something visceral about him and his music that I can connect with, even recognizing his musical limitations.

    Neil's music almost has to cut through, because there's little else there to market (save his "rebellious" personality, which I think is part of the appeal with him). I'm not saying music isn't a part of it with Prince and Kate Bush, but in their case, I think music is mixed with many other elements that made these two into mass popular stars. Are they Britney or the Back Street Boys that are almost pure image? No. But I think absent those good looks and performance aspects, I doubt either would be as popular as they are. That's all I'm saying.

    Bill

  12. #62
    Member Lopez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerjo View Post
    Reading prog fans' thoughts on basic three chord rock or R&B is kinda like listening to nuns talk about sex.
    Or maybe prog fans talking about sex.
    Lou

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  13. #63
    Dolly Parton. My God, just look at those Dolly Woods.
    NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF STUPID PEOPLE IN LARGE GROUPS!

  14. #64
    Elvis, Schönberg, Stockhausen, Monk, Sinatra.
    Last edited by Rarebird; 08-04-2020 at 09:19 AM.

  15. #65
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markwoll View Post
    No going to bite this big juicy worm.
    I've got a list, and it stays with me.
    I'm with you, surprised the thread is still open, I'll hold my thoughts on this one other than to say around Boston it seems to be The Dropkick Murphy's, who are a fun band.
    Ian

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  16. #66
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    Regarding Prince. I do not own any of his albums, nor did I ever see him live. I did not care for most of the music he did, but there is no doubt the guy was an incredible musician. In my opinion he was also an innovator. Here is a pretty good little compilation of some of his guitar solos.


  17. #67
    The thing about Prince was, he managed to single handedly dream up now just the songs but the arrangements on all those early records of his, when he was playing all the instruments. I suppose that's not that unique, I guess it happens a lot in pop and R&B music, but that he could walk into a studio with a song in his head, and then walk out 8 or 9 hours later with a completed track, with himself playing all the instruments, seems a bit astounding, to me.

    As far as "what instruments couldn't he play", that's a funny thing. You often times here people quote him as supposedly playing 20 instruments, based on the instrument list that came with his first album> Well, a lot of those instruments were different makes and models of synths, as well as different guitars (e.g. acoustic guitar, electric guitar, "Spanish" guitar, etc). Sorry, but "Minimoog" "Oberheim Four Voice" and "Prophet-5" are not three different instruments. The guy was a drummer/percussionist, bassist, keyboardist, guitarist, and vocalist. But that by itself is pretty impressive, that you could play all those instruments well enough that he could play everyone of them on the finished track.

    And yes, he was an awesome guitarist. I've never comprehended anyone who says "I didn't know he could play like that". I'm like, "Where the frell were you for 1984-1985?!". You couldn't listen to Let's Go Crazy or When Doves Cry or Purple Rain and tell that he was a bad ass guitarist?! OK, When Doves Cry, he does have Wendy Melvoin miming the solo in the video, so maybe I could see in that instance someone saying "Well, that's Wendy playing that bitchin' solo". But on the record it's Prince playing everything on that track.

    Not everything he did was brilliant, even on the records I think are great, there's usually one or two filler songs, and like every other male R&B singer, apparently, he had to have those stupid spoken word bits in the "slow jams". But you can't knock the guy for what he accomplished.

    As far as him being arrogant, well, he did pull that stunt on the Jimmy Fallon show, where he tossed Captain Kirk Douglas' guitar in the air and let it hit the ground (snapping the headstock), so I think that kinda speaks for itself.
    Last edited by GuitarGeek; 08-04-2020 at 12:51 PM.

  18. #68
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Just another shredder, then??
    (not impressed, BTW)
    How many of these instrumental breaks were present during one of his concert??

    I mean , how long did the guys in the audience have to wait (and suffer this crappy 80's funk - an redundancy) to get one of them solo?
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  19. #69
    Member TheH's Avatar
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    There is worse stuff than Prince, how many Pop Stars made an Album of instrumental Jazz/Fusion?


  20. #70
    I can't stand Ephemeral Sun. Not sure why but for some reason they take this very personally and have let me know in no uncertain terms just how unacceptable my opinion is.
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  21. #71
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by battema View Post
    I can't stand Ephemeral Sun. Not sure why but for some reason they take this very personally and have let me know in no uncertain terms just how unacceptable my opinion is.
    You're one of those artists who hate everything they've done the minute it hits the shelves, right?

    Grendel!
    Ian

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  22. #72
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by battema View Post
    I can't stand Ephemeral Sun. Not sure why but for some reason they take this very personally and have let me know in no uncertain terms just how unacceptable my opinion is.
    That explains the breakup.

  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    You're one of those artists who hate everything they've done the minute it hits the shelves, right?

    Grendel!
    If you're actually reading this then chances are you already have my last album but if NOT and you're curious:
    https://battema.bandcamp.com/

    Also, Ephemeral Sun: it's a thing and we like making things that might be your thing: http://www.ephemeralsun.com

  24. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    I'm with you, surprised the thread is still open, I'll hold my thoughts on this one other than to say around Boston it seems to be The Dropkick Murphy's, who are a fun band.
    Ditto to the ditto
    If you're actually reading this then chances are you already have my last album but if NOT and you're curious:
    https://battema.bandcamp.com/

    Also, Ephemeral Sun: it's a thing and we like making things that might be your thing: http://www.ephemeralsun.com

  25. #75
    The eons are closing
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    Cross posting to lowlights thread....

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