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Thread: The King Crimson gene

  1. #51
    Member Gizmotron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkelman View Post
    Nope. Sorry!

    We could do 20 questions but since I cannot announce yet, it wouldn't matter...
    Cheers!
    J
    When you can, please do let us know, John!!

  2. #52
    The '00s

    BPM&M, XtraKcts & ArtifaKcts: Bill Munyon and Pat Mastelotto re-arrange and process (mostly) music from the ProjeKcts. It's . . . interesting. It's not better than the source material.

    Tuner, Pole: Mastelotto and Marcus Reuter's pre-Stick Men band. There's a lot to like about the two live albums I have from this duo. Their live sound experiments and improvs are impressive. There's even some Can sampling on a track. This studio album, however, leaves me a little cold. I'll stick to the live material and the not-Tuner album Face (it's credited to Mastelotto and Reuter rather than Tuner).

    Adrian Belew, e: I've always thought that these instrumentals would've sounded better if they had been fleshed out on a Crimson album. Nevertheless, these are excellent compositions. Julie Slick shines throughout--even more so the couple of times I've seen her with Belew playing these songs live. A tighter drummer--Eric Slick has a loose feel--would make for a better album. Perhaps the orchestral version of these songs (composition?) is better, and I'll generally reach for that version if I want to hear this music. A very Crimson-esque caveat in the Belew discography.

    California Guitar Trio with Tony Levin and Pat Mastelotto: I can definitely do without the cover of "Heart of the Sunrise." The final 1/3 or so of the album has some more band compositions, and Bill Munyon gets some writing credits. I'm guessing there were some careful edits and processing done on those tunes (?). They're more interesting for it.

    UKZ, Radiation: So much potential for this band. Oh well.

    David Cross, Closer than Skin: If you're unfamiliar with Cross' solo work, this is a pretty good place to start. I'm sure some folks will point to Exiles from the previous decade being a better album, but this one feel more like the work of a band. The tracks are written by Cross and long-time collaborator, bass player Mick Paul (with lyrics by Richard Palmer-James). The music throughout is very good, a nice update to the 72-74 Crimson sound even copping some Crimson guitar riffs here and there. David Cross is likely underrated; he shouldn't be.

    Tony Levin, Stick Man: Mostly a Levin and Mastelotto affair. This is pre-Stick Men music. One of the tracks uses the "Seizure" bass line that Levin kicked around in ProjeKct Four. Overall, good music, but I definitely prefer Stick Men.

    KTU, Quiver: Mastelotto, Trey Gunn and accordion player Kimmo Pohjonen. Gunn and Mastelotto again prove just how powerful a rhythm section they were. This is some of the best playing from Gunn I think I've ever heard. If you don't have this album and you like Gunn's solo work, purchase this today.

    Ian Wallace, Happiness with Minimal Side Effects: The forgotten KC drummer? Hopefully his work in the band has been properly re-appraised with the Islands box set. His drumming on this album is still quite powerful. His voice is surprisingly good, too. Ian McDonald shows up with some nice solos. The very digital-sounding keyboard pads will likely grate many a listener. I certainly grew tired of them as the set wore on. There are a few stand-out tracks, though nothing that's particularly Crimson-y.

    TU, self-titled: Again proving how great the Gunn/Mastelotto rhythm section could be. There are moments of sheer brutality with Mastelotto pounding amid swirling electronics and Gunn summoning every fuzzed out sound he can get. A hearty recommendation and welcome addition to the Crimson family. I would welcome more music from Gunn and Mastelotto, but it seems that we will only get the occasional one-off show, and the last of those was four or five years ago now. After a very intense twenty year period of activity (1990-2010), Gunn has largely gone silent. There is the Security Project and some solo compositions, but little else.

    Bruford-Borstlap, In Two Minds: I'm a little late to this party. I only recently picked up the Summerfold collection. I wound up listening to this album twice in a row. The chemistry between the players is excellent; there is joy and exploration in each track. Both create great sound. Bruford's playing, to my ears, shows no signs of diminishment here.

    Travis & Fripp, Live at the Coventry Cathedral: A great late night set. Not one I reach for often, but I'm always rewarded when I listen to it.

    Fripp & Eno, Beyond Even: Prog Archives lists this a live album? It's clearly not. The loops and beats and samplings provide an interesting base for Fripp's playing. I got a lot more out of listening to this than I had expected (I suppose I never really got to know it).

    Jakko Jakszyk, The Bruised Romantic Glee Club: As I get further in this endeavor, I clearly have less reservations about breaking my own rules. Could this be what '70s Crimson would've sounded like in the '00s? It certainly has some Crimson-inspired moments and playing. I eagerly await Jakszyk's new solo album and earnestly hope that Crimson can still deliver another studio album.

    21st Century Schizoid Band, Official Bootleg Volume One: This seemed appropriate after Jakszyk's solo album. Who doesn't want to listen to the Giles brothers rip their way through some classic Crimson tunes?

    That was a lot of music to take in! I will reiterate (for reiteration's sake!) just how much I enjoy Gunn and Mastelotto's work together. Their work in and out of Crimson was inspired. The next decade has Tony Levin and Pat Mastelotto continuing the Crimson sound with Stick Men, Belew moving further away from Crimson-esque music and . . . not much else? Of course, given that Crimson was active for most of that decade, perhaps that only makes sense.

    What have I learned from this whole experiment? I don't know. Maybe the next round of music will inspire a summation.
    I want to dynamite your mind with love tonight.

  3. #53
    Member Kcrimso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by polmico View Post
    The '00s

    Tuner, Pole: Mastelotto and Marcus Reuter's pre-Stick Men band. There's a lot to like about the two live albums I have from this duo. Their live sound experiments and improvs are impressive. There's even some Can sampling on a track. This studio album, however, leaves me a little cold. I'll stick to the live material and the not-Tuner album Face (it's credited to Mastelotto and Reuter rather than Tuner).
    For me Pole is absolute masterpiece. One of the greatest "Crimson related" albums of the '00s.
    "A waste of talent and electricity." John Peel on ELP

  4. #54
    KrimsonCat MissKittysMom's Avatar
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    Missing items:

    KTU, 8-Armed Monkey - Much edgier than Quiver. Fourth member Samuli Kosminen adds sampling and drumming to an already-eclectic band.

    Crimson Jazz Trio - Ian Wallace anchoring a traditional jazz piano trio, working through a lot of 70s era (and some 80s) Crimson.

    Thanks for doing this project! Several new items to me also, that I'd like to follow up on.
    Last edited by MissKittysMom; 2 Weeks Ago at 01:26 PM.
    I think the subtext is rapidly becoming text.

  5. #55
    KrimsonCat MissKittysMom's Avatar
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    Was there mention anywhere of the Michael Giles solo album, Progress? Recorded in the 70s, but the tape was lost, and discovered - and eventually released - decades later. Not sure when. Continuation of McDonald and Giles, and perhaps even less Crimsonish, except it's loaded with Michael Giles unique and wonderful percussion. Well worth finding.
    I think the subtext is rapidly becoming text.

  6. #56
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    No Fayman & Fripp? Nothing like Crimson, but then it wasn't supposed to be.

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by polmico View Post

    Jakko Jakszyk, The Bruised Romantic Glee Club: As I get further in this endeavor, I clearly have less reservations about breaking my own rules. Could this be what '70s Crimson would've sounded like in the '00s? It certainly has some Crimson-inspired moments and playing. I eagerly await Jakszyk's new solo album and earnestly hope that Crimson can still deliver another studio album.

    21st Century Schizoid Band, Official Bootleg Volume One: This seemed appropriate after Jakszyk's solo album. Who doesn't want to listen to the Giles brothers rip their way through some classic Crimson tunes?
    More Jakko AND Gavin Harrisson on Dizrhythmia Too:


  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by MissKittysMom View Post
    Missing items:

    KTU, 8-Armed Monkey - Much edgier than Quiver. Fourth member Samuli Kosminen adds sampling and drumming to an already-eclectic band.
    I own it but much prefer the studio album. Go figure.

    Crimson Jazz Trio - Ian Wallace anchoring a traditional jazz piano trio, working through a lot of 70s era (and some 80s) Crimson.
    Yep. I don't have any albums from the band. I believe that ship has sailed, too. Both albums are OOP.

    Was there mention anywhere of the Michael Giles solo album, Progress?
    I was about to accuse you of not seeing my original post, but it does look like I forgot it. Funny thing is, I listened to it with that first set of albums. Just forgot to type it up. Oh well. It is indeed worth seeking out.

    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    No Fayman & Fripp? Nothing like Crimson, but then it wasn't supposed to be.
    .

    Fayman was 1/2 of the Ten Seconds duo, correct? What is the Fayman & Fripp album like?

    Quote Originally Posted by interbellum View Post
    More Jakko AND Gavin Harrisson on Dizrhythmia Too:
    Oh hey! I think I own that album. Hey! I do. I guess I'll spin it later today.
    I want to dynamite your mind with love tonight.

  9. #59
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    I would describe the Fayman & Fripp album as dark, cinematic soundscapes.

    I'm not familiar with Jeff Fayman otherwise, but Discogs says he does soundtracks.

  10. #60
    KrimsonCat MissKittysMom's Avatar
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    Second album is availble in MP3 on Amazon.
    I think the subtext is rapidly becoming text.

  11. #61
    Member chalkpie's Avatar
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    I just read an interview with Rikard Sjöblom and he said that "The Night Watch" is probably his favorite tune....pretty cool stuff. I do love that tune a ton and a half as well. Here it is:

    I will go with a song by King Crimson that is based on a painting by Rembrandt. It’s called "The Nightwatch". In my understanding Rembrandts painting was covered in an oil coating that made it darken with age and that’s why it was posthumously named The Nightwatch. In the King Crimson song they paint such a nice picture of the actual people in the painting and of the artist painting them. They have given the people characters and they also sing about the painting going “…dark with age”. I love it and it’s probably my favourite song.

  12. #62
    Estimated Prophet notallwhowander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by polmico View Post
    The '00s
    ProjeKct X - Heaven and Earth deserves a shout out, especially alongside XtraKcts & ArtifaKcts. It is basically a TCoL outtakes album, run through Pat Mastelotto's audio surgery. (Perhaps the Original Poster considers the ProjeKcts canonical albums, whihc explains why they didn't show up in the '90s post.) Worthy of consideration.

    The Trey Gunn Band - The Joy of Molybdenum is an essential recording for this period, to me. There is a great mix of rhythms and percussion on this record. Trey really has his groove on. It is in many ways a follow-up to The Third Star with a cultivation of a band dynamic. It is super sweet, and if you like the Gordian Knot albums, this is like a world-groove counterpoint to the music Sean Malone laid down in GK. Wish I had caught the gig!

    Adrian Belew's sides... albums, along with e, show how Crimson could have kept going after The Power to Believe. Lots of great stuff on these records, and excellent beginning-to-end listening experiences.
    Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world.

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by chalkpie View Post
    I just read an interview with Rikard Sjöblom and he said that "The Night Watch" is probably his favorite tune....pretty cool stuff. I do love that tune a ton and a half as well.
    So does Fripp. I recall him saying somewhere that the solo was one of his favorites. He had to convince Wetton to keep it!

    Quote Originally Posted by notallwhowander View Post
    ProjeKct X - Heaven and Earth deserves a shout out, especially alongside XtraKcts & ArtifaKcts. It is basically a TCoL outtakes album, run through Pat Mastelotto's audio surgery. (Perhaps the Original Poster considers the ProjeKcts canonical albums, whihc explains why they didn't show up in the '90s post.)
    Indeed. It's too difficult for me to separate out the ProjeKcts from proper King Crimson-ing.

    The Trey Gunn Band - The Joy of Molybdenum is an essential recording for this period, to me. There is a great mix of rhythms and percussion on this record. Trey really has his groove on. It is in many ways a follow-up to The Third Star with a cultivation of a band dynamic.
    All of Gunn's albums are great! I again wonder why he stopped recording new music (more or less).

    Adrian Belew's sides... albums, along with e, show how Crimson could have kept going after The Power to Believe. Lots of great stuff on these records, and excellent beginning-to-end listening experiences.
    There is a some fantastic music in each of the Sides albums. Belew's most recent album, Pop-Sided, is also recommended.
    I want to dynamite your mind with love tonight.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissKittysMom View Post




    Second album is availble in MP3 on Amazon.
    These records are great. As I listen to less prog and more jazz and orchestral music, this really works for me.

  15. #65
    KrimsonCat MissKittysMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by polmico View Post
    All of Gunn's albums are great! I again wonder why he stopped recording new music (more or less).
    I've read (a long time back) that he had hand injuries from playing his flat-necked Warr guitar.
    I think the subtext is rapidly becoming text.

  16. #66
    Banned Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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    Recently he's been playing it as a lap guitar.

  17. #67
    Member Nashorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by polmico View Post

    All of Gunn's albums are great! I again wonder why he stopped recording new music (more or less).
    He recently released two albums of improvised solo music.

    https://music.treygunn.com/
    One thing is for sure, the sheep is not a creature of the air.
    https://sproingg.bandcamp.com/

  18. #68
    Member bigjohnwayne's Avatar
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    Great thread. It is costing me money though.

    I ordered two solo Trey Gunn discs, KTU, Tuner, and the second Dizrythmia record.

    My favorite Crimson affiliates are the two Bruford records with Holdsworth, No Pussyfooting, and the Fripp mix of Damage. Travis and Fripp is quite good too. It is all I want the soundscapes to be--which besides Blessing of Tears and maybe At the End of Time tend to disappoint me a bit.

  19. #69
    2010s. Well, I've reached the end of my experiment. I bought some new albums as a result of this, revisited some music I haven't heard in a while, but did I learn anything? I'll get to that. Here's the line-up:

    Invisible Rays, s/t: Or is the band Agren, Kaiser and Gunn? I don't know. I file it under Invisible Rays. Regardless, this is some serious fun. Lots of noisy, dense improves. Agren is some kind of drummer. Pretty sure that Zess is the only other album I have with him on it. I should probably fix that at some point. Holy shit! "Invisibility Clause" is insane!

    Pat Mastelotto and Marcus Reuter, Face: So definitely different than a Tuner album. The additional instrumentation and musicians gives this a big band feel in spots. Melodic and satisfying.

    David Cross and David Jackson, Another Day: David Cross sure has been busy lately! This album again finds him working with Mick Paul (on bass). Craig Blundell is the drummer. He and Paul create an interesting and varied rhythm section. But the obvious draw is the interaction between Cross and Jaxon. And it delights on every level. Sounds like a lot of improvisation. It's definitely a lot of fun.

    Adrian Belew, Pop Sided: About as far from Crimson as Belew gets in his solo career, this is an excellent Belew album in the vein of (yes) his most poppy work (think Mr. Music Head). I chose this over any of the three Flux albums. It certainly works better as a single statement.

    Marcus Reuter, Truce: Ok, so there's no Crimson-sites on this album, but it certainly slid right in with some of the other recent listens. Fabio Trentini creates some almost Mick Karn-like moments on fretless, and Reuter is simply astounding throughout.

    Stick Men featuring David Cross, Panamerica: I wasn't sure which Stick Men album to choose, so I grabbed this box set. It represents the most complete Stick Men statement thus far. Cross again proves himself to be a great soloist and improviser.

    Levin, Torn, White, s/t: Alan White is a very loud drummer. There are some great moments on this album, but I really expect a whole lot more. Not very memorable.

    The Crimson ProjeKct, Live in Tokyo: True to the Thrak-band era of Crimson to a fault. The joy of this band was seeing it live (as I did in Phoenix with Danny Carey on drums!). Interesting to have and revisit. I do like their versions of "Industry" and "Sleepless."

    Jakszyk, Fripp and Collins, A Scarcity of Miracles: We know what this project lead to. We know how this project was developed (improvisations that were molded into songs with the addition of vocals and a rhythm section). We know that this isn't King Crimson. But, importantly, this album revisits some of that pastoral sound of the '70s Crimson. It's the bridge to the current Crim. Not all of this music works for me, but the best moments ("The Price We Pay," "The Light of Day") are incredibly rewarding. I'm glad that Crimson revisited two of these songs live.


    So I've listened to a lot of great music over the past few weeks. Some CDs were dusted off, spun and returned to the shelf to likely become dusty once again. Some music was re-appraised. Some was heard with new ears.

    My overwhelming sense, though, the one summarizing takeaway is this:

    I really want to listen to some King Crimson now. I can always listen to King Crimson. It's always rewarding. I know everyone feels that way about their favorite music, so I won't bother to explain or define or defend what I mean by "Crimson music." But it has a quality. And it's like nothing else.
    I want to dynamite your mind with love tonight.

  20. #70
    Did you listen to any Julie Slick music? In my opinion it definitely has the Crimson gene. Adrian’s influence on her is apparent. I saw her band in concert a few years ago with Pat Mastelotto on drums. There were maybe 25 people in the audience, but it was one of the best concerts I’ve seen. Thanks for the thread!

  21. #71
    Banned Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by polmico View Post
    Marcus Reuter, Truce: Ok, so there's no Crimson-sites on this album, but it certainly slid right in with some of the other recent listens. Fabio Trentini creates some almost Mick Karn-like moments on fretless, and Reuter is simply astounding throughout.
    Reuter has mentioned that this record was inspired by Torn/Karn/Bozzio's Polytown, so the Karn resemblance is probably on purpose.
    Levin, Torn, White, s/t: Alan White is a very loud drummer. There are some great moments on this album, but I really expect a whole lot more. Not very memorable.
    I have this and a handful of other LazyBones Records releases, and they seem to have a similar sound and/or style to them. Not something that I play ridiculously often, but I like it.

  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by The Crimson King View Post
    Did you listen to any Julie Slick music? In my opinion it definitely has the Crimson gene. Adrian’s influence on her is apparent. I saw her band in concert a few years ago with Pat Mastelotto on drums. There were maybe 25 people in the audience, but it was one of the best concerts I’ve seen. Thanks for the thread!
    Ach! I had one of her albums queued up and then forgot it. Her solo albums and Echotest albums are quite good.
    I want to dynamite your mind with love tonight.

  23. #73
    Member bigjohnwayne's Avatar
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    Holy crap, Cloud About Mercury is really good.

  24. #74
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    And don't forget 1987's Low Flying Aircraft with David Cross and Keith Tippett. Well worth investigating.
    Day dawns dark...it now numbers infinity.

  25. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by AncientChord View Post
    And don't forget 1987's Low Flying Aircraft with David Cross and Keith Tippett. Well worth investigating.
    And impossible to get. Long OOP. One of several David Cross albums I currently covet.
    I want to dynamite your mind with love tonight.

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