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Thread: Why didn't Phil want to continue singing from behind the drum kit?

  1. #26
    I was just listening to some various late 70's live Genesis was thinking about how consistently Chester played his parts over the years.

  2. #27
    Member Gizmotron's Avatar
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    Yes, I don't Phil worried at all about Chester. He was so consistent and...perfect.

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulrus View Post
    Hey man, nothing tops the difficulty factor like Peter Criss singing "Beth".
    I know you're joking, but Peter had to sing a few songs from behind the drums, notably Black Diamond (at virtually every show he did with the band), Nothing To Lose (he sings lead on the choruses), Hooligan, and Tossin' & Turnin'. And he sang back up vocals on most of the rest of the show, too.

  4. #29
    Member hFx's Avatar
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    As lead singer and guitarist you have the unique opportunity to really adapt and nuance the playing dynamically to the singing. But it becomes quite introvert and communicating with the audience is what suffers...
    My Progressive Workshop at http://soundcloud.com/hfxx

  5. #30
    Man of repute progmatist's Avatar
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    On the Ph'lip side of the coin was Karen Carpenter. She insisted on singing from behind the drum kit. Everyone around her wanted her up front.
    "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"--Dalai Lama

  6. #31
    Another flip side of the coin: Peter Panka (R.I.P.) started as Jane’s lead singer, but when their first drummer left he became their drummer for the balance of the career. He still sang on occasion (“Out in the Rain,” “(Wishdream) Lady”) but by and large left the singing to others. A real shame, as apart from the tragic Bernt Pulst on Together, everyone else who sang from the band ranged from merely adequate (Klaus Hess) to absolutely regrettable (everyone else!).
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  7. #32
    Well, Bernd Noske RIP of Birth Control also sang, but at some point they employed another drummer (Manfred von Bohr), leaving Bernd Noske to take care of vocals and percussion for some time. Later he returned to drums.

  8. #33
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rarebird View Post
    Well, Bernd Noske RIP of Birth Control also sang, but at some point they employed another drummer (Manfred von Bohr), leaving Bernd Noske to take care of vocals and percussion for some time. Later he returned to drums.

    Wasn't Eroc aso one of the Grobschnitt's vocalist also singing from behind his drums?
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  9. #34
    Member since March 2004 mozo-pg's Avatar
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    I wish Phil, talented beyond belief, stayed behind the drums and in perfect world, Gabriel at the helm. Imagine PG III or IV infused with this rest of his old bandmates?
    What can this strange device be? When I touch it, it brings forth a sound.

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    Wasn't Eroc aso one of the Grobschnitt's vocalist also singing from behind his drums?
    I don't think he did much lead vocals.

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    Wasn't Eroc aso one of the Grobschnitt's vocalist also singing from behind his drums?
    Apart from “Sahara,” I don’t think he really “sang.” Most of his vocals consisted of comic spoken-word stuff (see: Solar Music Live, “Auf Wiedersehen,” again the intro to “Sahara,” etc.).

    Another one that went backwards: Max Werner of Kayak after a bout of stage-fright decided he didn’t want to front the band anymore, and retreated behind a drum kit. (On the other side of the coin, original drummer Pim Koopman sang lead on a few songs.)
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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by mozo-pg View Post
    I wish Phil, talented beyond belief, stayed behind the drums and in perfect world, Gabriel at the helm. Imagine PG III or IV infused with this rest of his old bandmates?
    I think Banks and company wouldn't have given PG that kind of control, plus I don't see them waiting for months while he tweaked and re-tweaked every sound. In a perfect world for the fans, it would have been great. But then again, those two albums are great as they are. Where would Tony put in his solos?

  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Progbear View Post
    Apart from “Sahara,” I don’t think he really “sang.” Most of his vocals consisted of comic spoken-word stuff (see: Solar Music Live, “Auf Wiedersehen,” again the intro to “Sahara,” etc.).

    Another one that went backwards: Max Werner of Kayak after a bout of stage-fright decided he didn’t want to front the band anymore, and retreated behind a drum kit. (On the other side of the coin, original drummer Pim Koopman sang lead on a few songs.)
    And Max Werner did 2 solo-albums on which he sang.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Progbear View Post
    Apart from “Sahara,” I don’t think he really “sang.” Most of his vocals consisted of comic spoken-word stuff (see: Solar Music Live, “Auf Wiedersehen,” again the intro to “Sahara,” etc.).

    Another one that went backwards: Max Werner of Kayak after a bout of stage-fright decided he didn’t want to front the band anymore, and retreated behind a drum kit. (On the other side of the coin, original drummer Pim Koopman sang lead on a few songs.)
    Drummer Marc Ysaye sang the lead vocals on Machiavel's first album and I presume he handled both roles live, before the group brought in Mario Guccio as lead vocalist and front man.

  15. #40
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    Zape "Limousine" Leppänen, who sang lead vocals on Kalevala's Boogie Jungle and Abraham's Blue Refrain albums, had been the drummer in various bands for nine years before joining Kalevala and he initially did both drumming and singing there. Of course, Kalevala was originally set up by drummer and vocalist Remu Aaltonen, who, after getting kicked out of his own band, set up the successful Hurriganes, where he sang lead from behind his drumkit.

    And under the letter K, you can also find another Finnish progressive rock group Kaamos. Drummer Johnny Gustafsson was their lead vocalist.

  16. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Tangram View Post
    I think Banks and company wouldn't have given PG that kind of control, plus I don't see them waiting for months while he tweaked and re-tweaked every sound. In a perfect world for the fans, it would have been great. But then again, those two albums are great as they are. Where would Tony put in his solos?
    Yeah, Gabriel's said one of the reasons he left the band was that, having written all the lyrics on The Lamb Does On Broadway (or most of them anyway), he didn't feel comfortable with going back to writing things more collectively. He was probably spreading his wings as a writer and felt that going back to "writing by committee" (as Hackett once described his problem with the band) would be going backward for him.

    The thing I find intriguing about that whole thing is the story of Peter working with Happy The Man. Apparently, the band decided they didn't want to be "somebody else's backup band", so they eventually decided they didn't want to go forward, but I think Peter also didn't want to go forward with HTM either because they sounded "too much like Genesis" or at least too close to that same prog rock idiom, and I think he maybe wanted to escape that and do something different.

    I can't remember if Stan Whitaker or Frank Wyatt, who I read saying that when the first Gabriel solo record came out, like a year after they spent a day or two or whatever it was rehearsing with Peter, he couldn't believe how the music sounded. I gather they were the same songs, but with very different arrangements. It might have been interesting to hear how things might have sounded if everyone who needed to be got on board with the Peter & HTM thing. But obviously, Peter was looking for "something different" (though that would then beg the question, why did he even consider the HTM deal, or was that part of the process of figuring out what he wanted to do, i.e. "I'm not sure what it is, but I'll know it when I hear it").

  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Yeah, Gabriel's said one of the reasons he left the band was that, having written all the lyrics on The Lamb Does On Broadway (or most of them anyway), he didn't feel comfortable with going back to writing things more collectively. He was probably spreading his wings as a writer and felt that going back to "writing by committee" (as Hackett once described his problem with the band) would be going backward for him.
    I think Peter was always the most "progressive" member of Genesis in the sense of not wanting to repeat himself. The others had more of an evolutionary approach in taking what they did before and attempting to refine it, rather than discarding it and jumping into something wildly different each time.

  18. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Rarebird View Post
    And Max Werner did 2 solo-albums on which he sang.
    That was weird, there was even a TV performance of him singing “Rain in May” while banging on some drums. Maybe he had regrets about handing over the reins?

    Incidentally, his replacement Edward Reekers was originally a keyboardist, and played all the keyboards on his debut solo album, The Last Forest (with Werner on drums and Slager on guitar and bass, again).
    Last edited by Progbear; 1 Week Ago at 09:12 PM.
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  19. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Progbear View Post
    That was weird, there was even a TV performance of him singing “Rain in May” while banging on some drums. Maybe he had regrets about handing over the reins?

    Incidentally, his replacement Edward Reekers was originally a keyboardist, and played all the keyboards on his debut solo album, The Last Forest.
    On his first solo album Max Werner handles vocals, keyboards and percussion, while Johan Slager handles guitars and bass.

  20. #45
    Man of repute progmatist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Yeah, Gabriel's said one of the reasons he left the band was that, having written all the lyrics on The Lamb Does On Broadway (or most of them anyway), he didn't feel comfortable with going back to writing things more collectively. He was probably spreading his wings as a writer and felt that going back to "writing by committee" (as Hackett once described his problem with the band) would be going backward for him.

    The thing I find intriguing about that whole thing is the story of Peter working with Happy The Man. Apparently, the band decided they didn't want to be "somebody else's backup band", so they eventually decided they didn't want to go forward, but I think Peter also didn't want to go forward with HTM either because they sounded "too much like Genesis" or at least too close to that same prog rock idiom, and I think he maybe wanted to escape that and do something different.

    I can't remember if Stan Whitaker or Frank Wyatt, who I read saying that when the first Gabriel solo record came out, like a year after they spent a day or two or whatever it was rehearsing with Peter, he couldn't believe how the music sounded. I gather they were the same songs, but with very different arrangements. It might have been interesting to hear how things might have sounded if everyone who needed to be got on board with the Peter & HTM thing. But obviously, Peter was looking for "something different" (though that would then beg the question, why did he even consider the HTM deal, or was that part of the process of figuring out what he wanted to do, i.e. "I'm not sure what it is, but I'll know it when I hear it").
    That was apparently true for all the others as well. Phil, Tony, Steve and Mike all started working on solo albums and projects not long after Peter left.
    "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"--Dalai Lama

  21. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by progmatist View Post
    That was apparently true for all the others as well. Phil, Tony, Steve and Mike all started working on solo albums and projects not long after Peter left.
    I'm not sure which part of my post you're responding to, given that you quoted the entire thing, but Steve was the only one who made a solo record at that time. Other than The Geese And The Ghost, the others didn't make any solo records until 79-80, which was like 4 years after Peter left the band.

    Steve was the only one of the other four who apparently felt constrained by the "writing by committee" approach that Genesis took, as the other three stayed in the band for another, what was it? 18 years?

  22. #47
    Well, let's add something relevant to this thread :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXdCGMqwiX4

  23. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by happytheman View Post
    Don Henley who manage to pull this off.
    ANY of Collins' work compared to Henleys is exactly WHY he didn't sing from behind the kit...no comparison in my view. I am no fan of anything they did after Wind and the Wuthering, but Collins was a beast of a drummer. Except for those of us on here, horribly overshadowed by the pop he's known for. Most outside this discussion board don't even know he was a drummer
    Last edited by gpeccary; 1 Week Ago at 12:20 PM.

  24. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by gpeccary View Post
    Except for those of us on here, horribly overshadowed by the pop he's known for. Most outside this discussion board don't even know he was a drummer
    Just like most people either don't know Peter Gabriel was in Genesis, or, actually, more recently, don't even know his solo stuff.

  25. #50
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    The only song from the latter days that i recall him singing from behind the drums was FYFM. I remember him saying he wasn't real comfortable with the lyrics.

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