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Thread: Featured album: October Equus - Saturnal

  1. #1
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Featured album: October Equus - Saturnal

    http://www.progarchives.com/progress...13122017_r.jpg

    October Equus - Saturnal

    october.jpg

    Tracks Listing:
    1. Estructuras primitivas en el crepúsculo (4:38)
    2. El furioso despertar del homúnculo neonato (3:19)
    3. Una mirada furtiva en la noche saturnal (7:04)
    4. Ingravidez (1:11)
    5. Llegó como un amanecer ardiente (3:29)
    6. Realidad ciega (2:59)
    7. Avanzando velozmente contra el viento lacerante (3:19)
    8. Un mundo de sueños abstractos (0:46)
    9. No pudieron detener el silencio (1:42)
    10. Sutiles ecuaciones vivientes (6:01)
    11. Ella era invisible en la oscuridad (1:11)
    12. Abre los ojos (4:45)
    13. Último refugio (5:32)


    Line-up:
    - Angel Ontalva / guitar, co-producer
    - Victor Rodriguez / keyboards
    - Amanda Pazos / bass, co-producer & mixing
    - Vasco Trilla / drums
    With:
    - Francisco Mangas / tenor & soprano saxes, flute
    - Alfonso Muñoz / soprano, alto & baritone saxes
    - Pablo Ortega / cello


    Here is what our buddy Assaf Vestin had tio say about it on ProgArchives
    The Spanish instrumental progressive/avant-rock group October Equus is back with their third full-length (I am not counting the 2004 release, Hydra). October Equus don't rest on their laurels and repeat the same album but rather change things and develop with each release, showing the group's growth and maturation. With their 2006 s/t album (Ma. Ra. Cash Records), the influences of Present, Univers Zero and King Crimson were apparent, whereas in 2008's Charybdis (RAIG) had a zeuhl flavour and sounded more bombastic and daring than its predecessor. With Saturnal the band has signed with Italian label AltrOck, my current favourite label and a treasure trove for all things progressive and mind-blowing. In here the band seems to recall some of their s/t release, with added complexity, density of sound and succinctness. I also would make a comparison, in at least a few songs, to Miriodor's recent albums, in rhythm and spirit, but done in October Equus' unique manner.

    The core of the band remains guitarist Ángel Ontalva (or by his real name Ángel Rodriguez Morales, who also created the gorgeous artwork for the album), keyboards player Víctor Rodríguez and bassist Amanda Pazos Cosse, alongside their, by now, usual saxophonist and flautist Fran Mangas. Planeta Imaginario drummer Vasco Trilla and saxophonist Alfonso Muñoz join the lineup for this album, as well as cellist Pablo Ortega.

    Listening to the musicians' playing alongside enjoying the music is a fun exercise in any album, and here in particular. Amanda's bass gives a powerful and noticeable undertone, a solid belly to the tunes as Ángel's cold sounding guitar soars in a slow, slightly dissonant and angular fashion, accompanied by Victor's warm chords contrasting the guitar tone. The saxophones and cello add to the band's eerie sound, a sound that seems to be coming from a far away and scary place. Watching the artwork in the booklet as you listen to the music will help understand what I mean by this, as there is an otherworldly quality to their music.

    At times, their music would work as a soundtrack to some classic horror or scary movie, in particular the first piece, Estructuras primitivas en el crepúsculo. In other instances the music offers some respite from that atmosphere with a slightly faster pace and lighter mood, such as in the second piece, El furioso despertar del homúnculo neonato. This piece features wonderful drumming performance by Vasco Trilla, providing the piece with a moderately and frantic sounding tempo. The various pieces on here alternate between the somber and sinister sounding to the somewhat lighter and less dense side, though all bear the clear mark of the band. While one may complain of monotony on the album, that would be, in my view, due to superficial listening and not paying enough attention to the individual songs and how they develop.

    But what is common to all the compositions is the sense that I've stepped into another realm the minute I pressed the play button. You might feel you've been thrown into a strange and foreign land with rules you do not fully understand and an unnatural and peculiar scenery that seems to come at you from all directions. But the effort is worth it, in my view, as the band's music offers a distinctive experience as well as a fascinating one with a lot to discover in repeated listening.

    I will say this, though: the music on Saturnal is (or can be to those unfamiliar with the style) dense, complicated and hard to penetrate. Indeed, this is an album that the listener has to clear his way into, get past the walls of seemingly "unpleasant" and hard to grasp sounds and vibes. This is not to say the music is "bad" or un-enjoyable, but that one has to take the time to have a clear path into the music and be able to feel comfortable listening to it. While I'm quite used to this "type of music", it took me a while to penetrate its thick sound and jam-packed content. With 13 pieces on here, all written by either Ángel Ontalva or Víctor Rodríguez, you're in for an intense and long journey. Perhaps splitting the album into two listening sessions would help make it easier to swallow for those not fully comfortable with the music. But in my opinion, it is a journey well worth taking




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  2. #2
    This is my very fave of all their works.

    And whereas Charybdis was quite different from their debut, Saturnal is something else altogether. It varies and turns on a much broader surface, but almost every single part of the whole sounds planned along a unified idea, like a journey of dense impressions and colorite merging on "inner" canvas. Part dark, part bright, part direct yet typically abstract in overall form nonetheless.

    I admit that I was so pleased with this that I didn't follow them actively onwards; I heard their releases but never purchased them.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  3. #3
    Member thedunno's Avatar
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    I love October Equus and own (and like) every release but this is still my favorite. A record that I cannot play that often. I really have to be in the mood for it. But when I am it takes me to a wonderful world full of different layers and textures.

    A true GEM of a record.

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  4. #4
    Subterranean Tapir Hobo Chang Ba's Avatar
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    Their best for sure.

    Love everything about it.
    No humor please, we're skittish.

    Never let good music get in the way of making a profit.

  5. #5
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    My favorite by them.
    Ian

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  6. #6
    A criminally underrated band. Angel Ontalva is an extremely gifted composer and player, who keeps on creating beautiful music in various projects, seemingly only for a few devoted people.

    Saturnal is an excellent record, one of his best, containing dense music arranged and executed in an astonishing way. I particularly admire the way he uses the blending of electric and acoustic instruments in arranging his compositions - to me it's sheer perfection and deep understanding of the chamber rock dynamics.

    There are insane ideas in there, but I believe the way Ontalva organizes his material is a bit sloppy. There are ideas that don't get developed as much as I would like to, little excerpts in the middle of the album's narrative that don't add much. I would have liked him to use a more concrete strategy in the flow of the album, maybe writing a tight lengthy suite - he clearly feels at home in the short, dense composition. I don't know, just an impression I have, I believe that his talent is capable of producing a more decisive work than what he has already offered.

    Another tiny objection is the very strong Henry Cow element that creeps up at places. Yes, I know, nothing bad in itself. But soundwise, when the organ is made to sound like Tim, the drums like Chris etc it sounds a bit less original. It's the reason I think I prefer Presagios than Saturnal, if only by a tiny margin. I hear the Ontalva voice more clearly on this latest.

    I hope he continues in the same way in developing and flowering as an artist. Presagios and Sada (with Vespero) give evidence that this will be the case.

  7. #7
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Presagio was a very welcome release, superb.
    Ian

    Gordon Haskell - "You've got to keep the groove in your head and play a load of bollocks instead"
    I blame Wynton, what was the question?
    There are only 10 types of people in the World, those who understand binary and those that don't.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    This is my very fave of all their works.

    And whereas Charybdis was quite different from their debut, Saturnal is something else altogether. It varies and turns on a much broader surface, but almost every single part of the whole sounds planned along a unified idea, like a journey of dense impressions and colorite merging on "inner" canvas. Part dark, part bright, part direct yet typically abstract in overall form nonetheless.

    I admit that I was so pleased with this that I didn't follow them actively onwards; I heard their releases but never purchased them.
    It's their first release that feels to me like Ontalva's conception for the band was realised in sum and OE became fully itself. It's also where I got on board, and I love it dearly. I don't think it's the best they've done though. Closer acquaintance with subsequent works would have its rewards, I feel.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Zappathustra View Post
    A criminally underrated band. Angel Ontalva is an extremely gifted composer and player, who keeps on creating beautiful music in various projects, seemingly only for a few devoted people.
    The main question in a given year with Ontalva is whether he'll put out one, two or three works of thoroughgoing excellence. As you say, to little or no acclaim, recognition or even notice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zappathustra View Post
    There are insane ideas in there, but I believe the way Ontalva organizes his material is a bit sloppy. There are ideas that don't get developed as much as I would like to, little excerpts in the middle of the album's narrative that don't add much. I would have liked him to use a more concrete strategy in the flow of the album, maybe writing a tight lengthy suite - he clearly feels at home in the short, dense composition. I don't know, just an impression I have, I believe that his talent is capable of producing a more decisive work than what he has already offered.
    I can see where you are coming from with these caveats, but I think Permafrost answers them. Now there is an album which comes quite close to being perfectly achieved (and is one of the very few “instrumental concept albums” that for me completely succeeds in evoking its subject matter without ever being over-obvious about it). It took me quite a time to come to this view, mind you. The understated melancholy of the thing, and a kind of consistent dourness about it, do not exactly invite the listener inside. It needs to seep into your timbers gradually, so to speak.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    Presagio was a very welcome release, superb.
    It is - though I feel I haven't properly absorbed it yet (but also that I don't want to rush that process too much - it's not a record to listen to daily, I feel).
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  11. #11
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Am I the only one who thinks the solo Ontalva albums and the collabs with Vespero are better than the October Equus albums? They're all good, but...
    He did not know that the sword he'd hold, would turn his priceless empire into fool's gold...

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  12. #12
    Member thedunno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    Am I the only one who thinks the solo Ontalva albums and the collabs with Vespero are better than the October Equus albums? They're all good, but...
    You might like to hear that Angel is recording a new solo album. He posted snippets on facebook and they sound really promising.

    His solo albums are a bit more accesible then the OE stuff but very very good. A bit more cantebury style infused with world music. Personally I prefer OE but with a small margin. For OE i have to be in the mood while his solo records I can play and enjoy at any time.

    Another collaboration project I am very fond of is Obo. An mainly improvised record with a few Russian musicians that works really wel. Worth to check out.

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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Zappathustra View Post

    1) There are insane ideas in there, but I believe the way Ontalva organizes his material is a bit sloppy. There are ideas that don't get developed as much as I would like to, little excerpts in the middle of the album's narrative that don't add much. I would have liked him to use a more concrete strategy in the flow of the album, maybe writing a tight lengthy suite - he clearly feels at home in the short, dense composition.

    2) Another tiny objection is the very strong Henry Cow element that creeps up at places. Yes, I know, nothing bad in itself. But soundwise, when the organ is made to sound like Tim, the drums like Chris etc it sounds a bit less original.
    1) Agree, but abstraction - I believe - is his very language. These works aren't necessarily supposed to "stick", they're all about friction and an open question. I'd recall it to Chilean band Akineton Retard, who are perhaps a bit more jazzy but essentially attempt some of the same edge between the loose and the ferociously dense; Ontalva's compositional style comes across as even more successful at that, and he's still growing at it.

    2) Yes. Yet there are countless newer progressive acts who pursue that level of insane intricacy found in something like Western Culture. Even Änglagård had that in mind already by the mid-90s when they did Epilog, intended to function as their transcendence of expectation. For "rehearsal-intensive" artists to seek prominence through acumen I suppose it's somehow always about extremities and as far as elaborations are concerned then Beefheart, Zappa, Hatfield, Gentle Giant, HCow, Marcoeur and very few others were at the very top of that game.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  14. #14
    Subterranean Tapir Hobo Chang Ba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    Am I the only one who thinks the solo Ontalva albums and the collabs with Vespero are better than the October Equus albums? They're all good, but...
    I would put the first Ontalva/Vespero album above some OE ones, but I don't think I would put any of his solo works that high. (I'd put Mundo Flotante above Isla Purgatorio but idk if that counts as a proper OE album.)
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  15. #15
    Casanova TCC's Avatar
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    October Equus is a favorite here !
    Good call Trane !

    FYI!:

    FREE DOWNLOAD​!​!
    - Una Mirada Furtiva - Compilation 2004​-​2019 -
    "This compilation is a collection of compositions included originally on October Equus' albums released between 2004 and 2019"
    https://octoberxart.bandcamp.com/alb...tion-2004-2019

    (Some of us already know about this collection!)


    Regards,
    Tomás.
    Pura Vida!.

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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    1) Agree, but abstraction - I believe - is his very language. These works aren't necessarily supposed to "stick", they're all about friction and an open question. I'd recall it to Chilean band Akineton Retard, who are perhaps a bit more jazzy but essentially attempt some of the same edge between the loose and the ferociously dense; Ontalva's compositional style comes across as even more successful at that, and he's still growing at it.

    2) Yes. Yet there are countless newer progressive acts who pursue that level of insane intricacy found in something like Western Culture. Even Änglagård had that in mind already by the mid-90s when they did Epilog, intended to function as their transcendence of expectation. For "rehearsal-intensive" artists to seek prominence through acumen I suppose it's somehow always about extremities and as far as elaborations are concerned then Beefheart, Zappa, Hatfield, Gentle Giant, HCow, Marcoeur and very few others were at the very top of that game.
    1)Agree. The fact that he's extremely prolific could be playing a part. I imagine this guy as some weird scientist, whose mind gets constantly flooded with ideas that he needs to express. I am just stating my own desire of seeing him taking it to the highest possible level.

    2 Agree again, and it's clear we are talking of Western Culture as a specific field of reference. Sometimes, it gets too obvious though.

    Simon, Permafrost has been loaded to my phone and I will let you know my impressions. I haven't spent adequate time with it.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Zappathustra View Post
    1) I imagine this guy as some weird scientist […] it's clear we are talking of Western Culture as a specific field of reference. Sometimes, it gets too obvious though.
    Concur completely here. Listened again last night and while it's extremely well done, they -do- somtimes wear their source on a sleeve of some kind.

    The Cutler-styled drumming is probably the most notable part of it. However, is there any other way to handle drum-charts like these - other than the "rumbling" trackovers? I really don't know. One of the most disturbing faccets of information in the Piekut book was the fact that initially Cutler almost couldn't read charts and therefore had to "make up" interpretations by meticulously listening to what the others played in front of him. From what I understand he learnt to read in time (apparently he had to when they got around to "Erk Gah"), but it must have been pure hell to get into something like "Amygdala" without being able to -hear- the actual script from eye.

    With Ontalva's writings I'd be interested to know if he has the habit of presenting his work through clear charts or if it's all about coming together for collective elaboration. I know for a fact that Tsuneo Imahori used to have every single detail written out before displaying it to his Tipographica bandmates, and this was apparently also Tommaso Leddi's procedure when he had Yugen do his Uova Fatali project. I believe Dirk Bruinsma did the same thing with Blast's work on A Sophisticated Face, although they got more aleatoric later on.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    Concur completely here. Listened again last night and while it's extremely well done, they -do- somtimes wear their source on a sleeve of some kind.

    The Cutler-styled drumming is probably the most notable part of it. However, is there any other way to handle drum-charts like these - other than the "rumbling" trackovers? I really don't know. One of the most disturbing faccets of information in the Piekut book was the fact that initially Cutler almost couldn't read charts and therefore had to "make up" interpretations by meticulously listening to what the others played in front of him. From what I understand he learnt to read in time (apparently he had to when they got around to "Erk Gah"), but it must have been pure hell to get into something like "Amygdala" without being able to -hear- the actual script from eye.

    With Ontalva's writings I'd be interested to know if he has the habit of presenting his work through clear charts or if it's all about coming together for collective elaboration. I know for a fact that Tsuneo Imahori used to have every single detail written out before displaying it to his Tipographica bandmates, and this was apparently also Tommaso Leddi's procedure when he had Yugen do his Uova Fatali project. I believe Dirk Bruinsma did the same thing with Blast's work on A Sophisticated Face, although they got more aleatoric later on.
    I would be extremely surprised if this is not meticulously written beforehand - it's so dense and, well, perfect.

    As far as Cutler and Amygdala goes -btw Amygdala is the Greek word for Almonds - it seems he needed months in order to fetch his own part. And indeed, how one does it otherwise? My comment did not have the slightest hint of reproach for October Equus, it was just an assertion that they did not bring their own unique answers to the question - or maybe they should have posed some new question in order to be deemed on a par with Henry Cow (and why not? the potential isn't missing)

  19. #19
    Member thedunno's Avatar
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    I've been on a October Equus binge the last week. Here's my take on their studio discography:

    October Equus- Their first album and the 'rockiest' of them all. Just a 4 piece band; drums, bass, keys and guitar. I get a bit of a Crimson vibe now and then. It has a bit of an energetic youthful charm that maybe went missing on later recordings. Downside is the sound quality, especially the keyboards sound a bit 'kitschy' here and there but even that has a bit of charm. I like this one a lot. 8/10

    Charybdys - Same lineup as the first but with the addition of a sax player. A fuller and more mature sound. Less rock, more UZ and Cow. For me it missing *something* without being able to explain what that something is. Still very good. 7/10

    Saturnal - See the above thread. I dont care bout the HC references. Their magnum opus. 10/10

    Permafrost - back to the 4 piece line up. When I first heared it I was convinced that it was a serious step down but after repeated listening's I am not so sure anymore. Music really supports the theme of the album very well. Not a weak spot, great sound. Wonderful artwork by Angel too. 9/10

    Isla Purgatorio - A 4 piece line up again but this time without keys but with sax. Good album but very different from previous albums. A lot more jazzy this time. Keyboard player Víctor Rodríguez is missed though. 7/10

    Presagios - Back to a full line up as on Saturnal. Awesome stuff although, for me, not quite up to the level of Saturnal. 8/10

    Overall, OE is an excellent band and without doubt one of my favorite active bands at the moment. They deserve a lot more recognition from the prog audience then they currently get but that can be said about so many bands

  20. #20
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Only have the last four, only change to your sequence would be Presagios ahead of Permafrost by a tad.
    Ian

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  21. #21
    Permafrost is killer - more concise, although the palette is narrower.

    A word or two have to be said for keyboards wizard Victor Rodriguez. A fabulous musician.

  22. #22
    Subterranean Tapir Hobo Chang Ba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedunno View Post
    I've been on a October Equus binge the last week. Here's my take on their studio discography:

    October Equus- Their first album and the 'rockiest' of them all. Just a 4 piece band; drums, bass, keys and guitar. I get a bit of a Crimson vibe now and then. It has a bit of an energetic youthful charm that maybe went missing on later recordings. Downside is the sound quality, especially the keyboards sound a bit 'kitschy' here and there but even that has a bit of charm. I like this one a lot. 8/10

    Charybdys - Same lineup as the first but with the addition of a sax player. A fuller and more mature sound. Less rock, more UZ and Cow. For me it missing *something* without being able to explain what that something is. Still very good. 7/10

    Saturnal - See the above thread. I dont care bout the HC references. Their magnum opus. 10/10

    Permafrost - back to the 4 piece line up. When I first heared it I was convinced that it was a serious step down but after repeated listening's I am not so sure anymore. Music really supports the theme of the album very well. Not a weak spot, great sound. Wonderful artwork by Angel too. 9/10

    Isla Purgatorio - A 4 piece line up again but this time without keys but with sax. Good album but very different from previous albums. A lot more jazzy this time. Keyboard player Víctor Rodríguez is missed though. 7/10

    Presagios - Back to a full line up as on Saturnal. Awesome stuff although, for me, not quite up to the level of Saturnal. 8/10

    Overall, OE is an excellent band and without doubt one of my favorite active bands at the moment. They deserve a lot more recognition from the prog audience then they currently get but that can be said about so many bands
    I agree with you on Charybdis. I like it but it doesn't elevate to the heights of their debut (which I love and would place second behind Saturnal) but I can't really say why. I should listen to it again though, it's been many a moon.

    Permafrost I would have to place at the bottom. Perhaps its a little underdeveloped to my ears. Isla...is pleasant but that's about it. I'd rank:

    Saturnal
    S/t
    Charybdis
    Presagios
    Permafrost
    Isla Purgatorio

    I also really like Memories Vol 1, despite the odds and sods feel to it. Great band all around and I hope they exist for many decades. I look forward to anything they will produce.
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  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Zappathustra View Post
    I would be extremely surprised if this is not meticulously written beforehand - it's so dense and, well, perfect.

    As far as Cutler and Amygdala goes -btw Amygdala is the Greek word for Almonds - it seems he needed months in order to fetch his own part. And indeed, how one does it otherwise? My comment did not have the slightest hint of reproach for October Equus, it was just an assertion that they did not bring their own unique answers to the question - or maybe they should have posed some new question in order to be deemed on a par with Henry Cow (and why not? the potential isn't missing)
    Yes, we write all except solos. We use to write some sketches for the drums too, although the drummer tends to give the final shape.

    My personal OE favourite is maybe Permafrost. I think there's some really beautiful music in Presagios. Planning a new album for the next year, as well. We only must choose which one, because we have finished material for three albums.

    Information about this and other new albums that are coming soon will appear here: http://angelontalva.com

  24. #24
    Member thedunno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahrm View Post
    Planning a new album for the next year, as well. We only must choose which one, because we have finished material for three albumd.
    Bring it on! All of it![emoji869]

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