Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: Question about Eddie Jobson on USA by King Crimson

  1. #1

    Question about Eddie Jobson on USA by King Crimson

    Hi everyone! It's common knowledge than Eddie Jobson was drafted in by the remaining members of King Crimson in 1975 to overdub violin and electric piano to the Asbury Park 1974 recordings before being released as USA. However, it also seems some of David Cross's parts are still on the album.
    Does anyone know for certain which parts are Eddie and which parts are David?
    Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    1,013
    Quote Originally Posted by popeyebonaparte View Post
    Hi everyone! It's common knowledge than Eddie Jobson was drafted in by the remaining members of King Crimson in 1975 to overdub violin and electric piano to the Asbury Park 1974 recordings before being released as USA. However, it also seems some of David Cross's parts are still on the album.
    Does anyone know for certain which parts are Eddie and which parts are David?
    Thanks in advance!
    It's not just "common knowledge", it's precisely detailed in the credits : violin on "LTiA2" and piano (Pianet, actually) on "Lament".
    Calyx (Canterbury Scene) - http://www.calyx-canterbury.fr
    Legends In Their Own Lunchtime (blog) - https://canterburyscene.wordpress.com/
    My latest books : "Yes" (2017) - https://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/yes/ + "L'Ecole de Canterbury" (2016) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/lecoledecanterbury/ + "King Crimson" (2012/updated 2018) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/kingcrimson/
    Upcoming prog (& beyond) shows in France - http://www.bigbangmag.com/agenda.php

  3. #3
    Jobson overdubbed violin on “Schizoid” as well (as noted in the album credits).

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    1,013
    Quote Originally Posted by mkeneally View Post
    Jobson overdubbed violin on “Schizoid” as well (as noted in the album credits).
    Absolutely - sorry about the above post, I didn't have the LP handy and relied on a scan of the cover that was barely legible & missed "Schizoid".

    Calyx (Canterbury Scene) - http://www.calyx-canterbury.fr
    Legends In Their Own Lunchtime (blog) - https://canterburyscene.wordpress.com/
    My latest books : "Yes" (2017) - https://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/yes/ + "L'Ecole de Canterbury" (2016) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/lecoledecanterbury/ + "King Crimson" (2012/updated 2018) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/kingcrimson/
    Upcoming prog (& beyond) shows in France - http://www.bigbangmag.com/agenda.php

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Burlington Twp, NJ
    Posts
    1,370
    This is an interesting read about the Jobson session:

    https://www.dgmlive.com/in-depth/usa-the-long-view

    Jobson's quote here may indicate that the Cross' violin solo remained intact on the record?:

    "Much of the session was overdubbing Hohner Pianet parts through a fuzz box to double and fatten the power riffs; something that was misleadingly credited as "piano." That part was easy; but I do vividly remember having to learn the tricky part of 21st Century Schizoid Man on violin, on the spot, in front of Fripp and Wetton. Only the violin solo couldn't be replaced, as it was leaking through the drum and vocal mics, and couldn't be removed."

  6. #6
    'USA' was compiled from the two performances at Asbury Park Casino 28/06/1974 and Providence Palace Theatre 30/06/1974, and the separate recordings made available on DGM Live and 'The Road To Red' boxed set only include the Bruford/Cross/Fripp/Wetton quartet, and no Eddie Jobson overdubs. Since the original recordings became available I have rarely played 'USA', preferring the improved detail found in the remixed multi-tracks. Has anyone made an assessment of Eddie Jobson's overdubs?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by jcarr73729 View Post
    'USA' was compiled from the two performances at Asbury Park Casino 28/06/1974 and Providence Palace Theatre 30/06/1974, and the separate recordings made available on DGM Live and 'The Road To Red' boxed set only include the Bruford/Cross/Fripp/Wetton quartet, and no Eddie Jobson overdubs. Since the original recordings became available I have rarely played 'USA', preferring the improved detail found in the remixed multi-tracks. Has anyone made an assessment of Eddie Jobson's overdubs?
    Is it possible to subtract the 'added Eddie Jobson' from the original and hear his contributions, or were David Cross's parts substituted rather than overdubbed?

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    1,013
    Quote Originally Posted by Halmyre View Post
    Is it possible to subtract the 'added Eddie Jobson' from the original and hear his contributions, or were David Cross's parts substituted rather than overdubbed?
    I'm not sure any part of your question makes sense to me... But I'll answer this. On the released "USA", Cross's contributions were mixed out in certain spots detailed above, and Eddie Jobson re-recorded them. There's no way to "substract" Eddie's contributions to these versions. But as JCarr above mentioned, the entire Asbury Park concert has been made available (DGMLive download, "Road to Red" box set etc.) so you can hear the unaltered performances with all of Cross's playing intact. In the case of the improv "Asbury Park", you'll notice half of the improv was edited out, and in what remained, Cross's Mellotron has been largely dispensed with.
    Calyx (Canterbury Scene) - http://www.calyx-canterbury.fr
    Legends In Their Own Lunchtime (blog) - https://canterburyscene.wordpress.com/
    My latest books : "Yes" (2017) - https://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/yes/ + "L'Ecole de Canterbury" (2016) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/lecoledecanterbury/ + "King Crimson" (2012/updated 2018) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/kingcrimson/
    Upcoming prog (& beyond) shows in France - http://www.bigbangmag.com/agenda.php

  9. #9
    Speaking of Cross being edited out of USA, I always felt sorry for him and the way his involvement in Crimson ended. There's an interesting photo included in the Road to Red box. Along with the pictures of Fripp, Bruford and Wetton eventually appearing on the cover of Red, there's also a picture of Cross obviously from that same photo session. I've read the story in Fripp's journal about how he wanted to tell Cross he was out but EG told him they'd handle it and unfortunately never did so the ending was ugly. I always wondered when I saw that picture if Cross fully expected to be on the Red sessions and album as they included him in the cover photo shoot?

    King Crimson Red Photos.jpg
    Last edited by WytchCrypt; 4 Weeks Ago at 08:47 PM.
    Check out my one-man prog band, Mutiny in Jonestown at https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown

    Check out Mutiny in Jonestown's latest album, "The Daemons Mock Me While I Sleep" at: https://mutinyinjonestown.bandcamp.c...-while-i-sleep

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    I'm not sure any part of your question makes sense to me... But I'll answer this. On the released "USA", Cross's contributions were mixed out in certain spots detailed above, and Eddie Jobson re-recorded them. There's no way to "substract" Eddie's contributions to these versions. But as JCarr above mentioned, the entire Asbury Park concert has been made available (DGMLive download, "Road to Red" box set etc.) so you can hear the unaltered performances with all of Cross's playing intact. In the case of the improv "Asbury Park", you'll notice half of the improv was edited out, and in what remained, Cross's Mellotron has been largely dispensed with.
    I think what I'm driving at is, is it possible to electronically isolate Jobson's parts so that you could hear them clearly, or are they too 'blended' in the mix. From what you say, the answer is no, I didn't realise the concerts were recorded on multi-track.

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    1,013
    Quote Originally Posted by WytchCrypt View Post
    There's an interesting photo included in the Road to Red box. Along with the pictures of Fripp, Bruford and Wetton eventually appearing on the cover of Red, there's also a picture of Cross obviously from that same photo session.
    Don't know about "obviously"... In fact, quite the contrary - it's NOT from the same photo session, since Cross was no longer in the band when those were taken. It's just made to look similar.
    Calyx (Canterbury Scene) - http://www.calyx-canterbury.fr
    Legends In Their Own Lunchtime (blog) - https://canterburyscene.wordpress.com/
    My latest books : "Yes" (2017) - https://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/yes/ + "L'Ecole de Canterbury" (2016) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/lecoledecanterbury/ + "King Crimson" (2012/updated 2018) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/kingcrimson/
    Upcoming prog (& beyond) shows in France - http://www.bigbangmag.com/agenda.php

  12. #12
    Member Rajaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Katy TX & Halifax Canada
    Posts
    360
    For me, it is very interesting that all the King Crimson incarnations after 1974 even today, have not and do NOT have a violin player live on stage.
    It may be possible that some studio recordings may have been edited but live, that sound has been replaced either by guitar or some kind of recorded effect.

    I don't care about the photo sessions but instead about the music and how it has sounded for the past four decades of Crimsonology.
    YES - Montreal Forum, Feb. 74 - The Winery, Saratoga, CA Aug 2016
    Pink Floyd - Olympic Stadium, July 77 - Yankee Stadium, NY Jun 94
    Jethro Tull - Montreal Forum, Jun 73 - LA Forum, Nov 78
    Rush - Montreal Forum, July 84 - Toyota Ctr, Houston, TX May 2015
    Genesis - Montreal Forum, December 74 - Pepsi Arena, Denver Oct 2007
    King Crimson - Spectrum Montreal, July 84 - Videotron Ctr Quebec July 2017
    UK & IQ at Progstock Festival - UCPAC Center - Rahway NJ - Oct 2018

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    1,013
    Quote Originally Posted by Rajaz View Post
    For me, it is very interesting that all the King Crimson incarnations after 1974 even today, have not and do NOT have a violin player live on stage.
    Well, none of the 1969-72 incarnations had violin either. It was just an exception to the rule that lasted a little under two years. (Not trying to minimise David's input - this is my favourite incarnation of the band).

    ...Live, that sound has been replaced either by guitar or some kind of recorded effect.
    In 2017, the band attempted to play "Exiles" but it was deemed unsatisfactory - they performed it only three times, and one was during the run of concerts in Mexico that produced the "Meltdown" live release. I have heard a version and while it sounds better than, for example, the also-quickly-abandoned "The Sheltering Sky" they attempted last year, it doesn't really work with just the Mellotron(s) playing the violin theme.

    I don't care about the photo sessions but instead about the music and how it has sounded for the past four decades of Crimsonology.
    Should we refrain from discussing photo sessions in your presence or are you tolerant enough to allow us to ?
    Calyx (Canterbury Scene) - http://www.calyx-canterbury.fr
    Legends In Their Own Lunchtime (blog) - https://canterburyscene.wordpress.com/
    My latest books : "Yes" (2017) - https://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/yes/ + "L'Ecole de Canterbury" (2016) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/lecoledecanterbury/ + "King Crimson" (2012/updated 2018) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/kingcrimson/
    Upcoming prog (& beyond) shows in France - http://www.bigbangmag.com/agenda.php

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    Don't know about "obviously"... In fact, quite the contrary - it's NOT from the same photo session, since Cross was no longer in the band when those were taken. It's just made to look similar.
    Are you saying that's not a picture of Cross circa 1974 but one taken 40 years later especially for the Road to Red box? If true, I'm not sure why they'd bother taking a shot of him to match the others from an album he never appeared on. That just doesn't make much sense to me...
    Check out my one-man prog band, Mutiny in Jonestown at https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown

    Check out Mutiny in Jonestown's latest album, "The Daemons Mock Me While I Sleep" at: https://mutinyinjonestown.bandcamp.c...-while-i-sleep

  15. #15
    Member Rajaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Katy TX & Halifax Canada
    Posts
    360
    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    Well, none of the 1969-72 incarnations had violin either. It was just an exception to the rule that lasted a little under two years. (Not trying to minimise David's input - this is my favourite incarnation of the band).



    In 2017, the band attempted to play "Exiles" but it was deemed unsatisfactory - they performed it only three times, and one was during the run of concerts in Mexico that produced the "Meltdown" live release. I have heard a version and while it sounds better than, for example, the also-quickly-abandoned "The Sheltering Sky" they attempted last year, it doesn't really work with just the Mellotron(s) playing the violin theme.



    Should we refrain from discussing photo sessions in your presence or are you tolerant enough to allow us to ?
    Thanks for all the pros and cons of your comments.

    - Before 1972 there were no songs that needed or had violin in its musical structure.

    - I find a few (not all) of the Mexico interpretations of the Crimson classics very gloomy and lack the essence and raw purity of the originals, IMHO.

    - No one needs to refrain on anything, this is an open forum and I prefer not to deviate from the main subject that is Eddie's violin overdubs - I am not silencing or asking anybody to refrain posting stuff.

  16. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    1,013
    Quote Originally Posted by WytchCrypt View Post
    Are you saying that's not a picture of Cross circa 1974 but one taken 40 years later especially for the Road to Red box? If true, I'm not sure why they'd bother taking a shot of him to match the others from an album he never appeared on. That just doesn't make much sense to me...
    I assume you're just being funny (or trying to)... If not, I don't think I can be of much help.
    Calyx (Canterbury Scene) - http://www.calyx-canterbury.fr
    Legends In Their Own Lunchtime (blog) - https://canterburyscene.wordpress.com/
    My latest books : "Yes" (2017) - https://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/yes/ + "L'Ecole de Canterbury" (2016) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/lecoledecanterbury/ + "King Crimson" (2012/updated 2018) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/kingcrimson/
    Upcoming prog (& beyond) shows in France - http://www.bigbangmag.com/agenda.php

  17. #17
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Utopia
    Posts
    2,748
    Quote Originally Posted by WytchCrypt View Post
    Are you saying that's not a picture of Cross circa 1974 but one taken 40 years later especially for the Road to Red box? If true, I'm not sure why they'd bother taking a shot of him to match the others from an album he never appeared on. That just doesn't make much sense to me...
    The Red photos were taken by Gered Mankowitz. That David Cross shot is credited to Willie Christie.
    New album THE HIPCRIME VOCAB available now!
    https://michaelpdawson.bandcamp.com

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Triscuits View Post
    The Red photos were taken by Gered Mankowitz. That David Cross shot is credited to Willie Christie.
    Thanks, I never thought to check the credits on the back
    Check out my one-man prog band, Mutiny in Jonestown at https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown

    Check out Mutiny in Jonestown's latest album, "The Daemons Mock Me While I Sleep" at: https://mutinyinjonestown.bandcamp.c...-while-i-sleep

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Halmyre View Post
    I think what I'm driving at is, is it possible to electronically isolate Jobson's parts so that you could hear them clearly, or are they too 'blended' in the mix. From what you say, the answer is no, I didn't realise the concerts were recorded on multi-track.
    Well, if you had the master tapes, you could go into a studio, and hit the "solo" button on Jobson's channel on the mixing desk. Hell given the way things are done nowadays, given the software and the digital conversion of the masters, you could do that on your laptop in the bedroom. But of course, as I said, you have to have access to the masters, which most of us obviously don't.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •