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Thread: Electronic/Tape/Music Concrete/Noise Pioneers

  1. #26
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    I was digging through my collection and found this old gem,unplayed by me for many moons.

    Oskar Sala-Electronic Virtuosity(1970).

    "please do not understand me too quickly"-andre gide

  2. #27
    Iannis Xenakis was also pretty groundbreaking in terms of electroacoustic and early computer music.

    As an architect, he also created music for pre-existing spaces, and designed structures and settings which were used to create specific music compositions and performances.

  3. #28
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    Lots o’ excellent posts! This is becoming a great reference resource (for me at least). Keep ‘em coming!

  4. #29
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    Hello all,

    Hope everyone is safe and sound and washing their hands! Coming in late to this but just wanted to reiterate the recommendation of the Parmegiani box set that was suggested earlier. It's been a couple years that I've listened to it but I can tell you that the amount of pleasure I've gotten out of that box is off the charts!

    I can also wholeheartedly agree on listening to anything Francois Bayle related as well. The same people who put out the Parm box (INA GRM) also put out a bigger box of Bayle's output.

    Luc Ferrari hasn't been mentioned yet and again, INA GRM put out a big box of his output as well. Between these 3 you would conceivably be set for months, if not years.

    I've been touting this triumvirate many times on this board ad nauseum but since someone else started this thread, I thought I'd be justified by doing it again. And again, as I've done many times in the past, please don't neglect Francis Dhomont and the already mentioned Tod Dockstader. Re. Dockstader, you can't go wrong by anything he's put out but if you can find his triple cd box "Ariel", go for it. It's much more modern sounding than his classic tape splicing stuff but, Dockstader, with this release proves that his mastery was so developed that it doesn't matter what equipment he's using.

    I'm not sure if I would consider any of these guys "Pioneers" as there were people before them paving the way but regardless, these 5 gentlemen are absolute sound masters. Anyone just getting into this stuff would not go wrong starting with any of them.

    On a more modern note, I've been getting alot of mileage out of Yiorgis Sakellariou lately. Here is something:

    Last edited by neuroticdog; 03-29-2020 at 06:23 PM.
    If it ain't acousmatique-It's crap

  5. #30
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    One from Dhomont, still active in the acousmatic scene:



    ...and also, one from Beatriz Ferreyra who was in that 3rd wave of acousmatic artists right after Parm, Ferrari and Bayle and is STILL putting out forward looking, groundbreaking awesome soundscapes. This is from a 2020 release:



    best
    Michael
    If it ain't acousmatique-It's crap

  6. #31
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    Here is some classic Ferreyra from 1968: I would kill to hear pieces like this diffused now although, in doing that it would probably entail a journey to Paris which is not gonna happen anytime soon. The GRM (Groupe de Recherches Musicales at the Maison de Radio France) has a sound system called the Acousmonium which was designed by Bayle and has something like 80 separate speakers. Imagine what something like this would sound like diffused over a sound delivery system like that!!



    best
    Michael
    If it ain't acousmatique-It's crap

  7. #32
    A recent discovery: this haunting piece (1964) from Japanese composer Joji Yuasa:

    Confirmed Bachelors: the dramedy hit of 1883...

  8. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by neuroticdog View Post
    ...and also, one from Beatriz Ferreyra who was in that 3rd wave of acousmatic artists right after Parm, Ferrari and Bayle and is STILL putting out forward looking, groundbreaking awesome soundscapes. This is from a 2020 release:
    I'll second this one, got Echoes+ via a Bandcamp recommendation (those things are dangerous ) and it's terrific.
    If you're actually reading this then chances are you already have my last album but if NOT and you're curious:
    https://battema.bandcamp.com/

    Also, Ephemeral Sun: it's a thing and we like making things that might be your thing: https://ephemeralsun.bandcamp.com

  9. #34
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    Hi Michael.As always, your recommendations are intriguing and merit a listen.If memory serves, you mentioned and recommended Roland Kayn's music and i recently bought two of his mega cd boxes.These and the BP INA GRM box should keep me busy for the foreseeable future.

    Cheers and stay well.
    "please do not understand me too quickly"-andre gide

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by neuroticdog View Post

    On a more modern note, I've been getting alot of mileage out of Yiorgis Sakellariou lately. Here is something:
    His other project, Mecha/Orga, is also recommended.
    Macht das ohr auf!

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  11. #36
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    Another interesting compilative record from 1965 including works from Lewin-Richter, Mimaroglu and... W.Carlos ! (yes, the Moog wizard mainly famous for his/her Bach reinterpretations) in some early experimental (atonal) pieces. This was actually my first input into the fantastic world of electronic noises and soundscapes. This record (originally issued on Turnabout) is not too hard to find but try to get the later stereo reissue.

    Last edited by Mr.Krautman; 03-30-2020 at 10:05 AM.

  12. #37
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    And one of my all time favorites:

    Mauricio Kagel : Acustica, for experimental sound-producers and loudspeakers (1968/1970).

    Originally issued on Deutsche Grammophon ‎(2707 059, double LP), the YT static picture is NOT from the original artwork.

    Last edited by Mr.Krautman; 03-30-2020 at 10:03 AM.

  13. #38
    I lvoe that Kagel!
    I'm not lazy. I just work so fast I'm always done.

  14. #39
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    Alvin Curran-Canti Illuminati for voice, tapes and synthesizer

    "please do not understand me too quickly"-andre gide

  15. #40
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    Lot's of great recommendations and artists new to me so thanks for the new vistas to explore.

    Perhaps not quite fitting the genre, but another favorite of mine is the late sculptor/designer/artist Harry Bertoia. He uses his sounds sculptures (vertical rods and gongs) to produce some amazing sounds. His series of late 70's albums have been collected and remastered in an 11-CD set, The Complete Sonambient Collection which I picked up in the last couple of years. Anyway, IMO it is really something to hear on a big hi-fi system.

  16. #41
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    ^^^^

    Seconding the love for Harry Bertoia.
    "please do not understand me too quickly"-andre gide

  17. #42
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    This thread has prompted me to do a little sleuthing work and I can't believe these flew under my radar for a few years:

    From Bandcamp:

    Transversales Disques is a french record label based in Paris,
    specialised in the release of long lost tapes and unpublished recordings, the reissue of rare records & soundtracks.

    I reviewed their catalog and lo and behold I found these:

    Two from Parm
    https://transversales.bandcamp.com/album/rock
    https://transversales.bandcamp.com/a...ol-1-1966-1990

    One from Ferrari
    https://transversales.bandcamp.com/album/photophonie

    One from Bayle
    https://transversales.bandcamp.com/album/electrucs

    I'm not really sure if any of this is, as they say "long lost" and/or "unpublished" as some of this stuff may have popped up on some stray compilation but...if it's indeed unreleased stuff...well thats pretty exciting!!!!

    I did listen to the Bayle release last night and I thought it was just ok but I was pretty tired too, so i'll have to give it another go. I wouldn't call it acousmatic or electro-acoustic, mainly it sounded like short snippets of synth ideas that could have been expanded on. There were a few tracks that seemed a little bit more developed but, for the most part, it seemed like unfinished wisps of ideas. Tread lightly, but if you are a completist...it's definitely worth having.

    btw...Bayles (quoting myself...sorry) "unfinished wisps of ideas" are still a very big deal for me.

    best
    Michael
    If it ain't acousmatique-It's crap

  18. #43
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    Hi, quoting myself again, The release above from Parmegiani was pretty outstanding. Hoping there is a Vol. 2 (and more). In fact, I think this would be a great introduction to him for Electronic Music fans coming from the perspective of T Dream, Schulze etc. There are a few pure "acousmatic" moments (really cool "in your face" speeding car moment) but, for the most part, this is all synth moves, alot of it that driving sequenced TD style...albeit done in a very Parmegiani way. It seems this label found sessions where Parm and Bayle were exclusively using these same electronic keyboard instruments, probably in the GRM studios because the other Parm and the Bayle release sound similar.

    This was the best of the three (haven't heard the Ferrari one yet) and I would emphatically say..."go get her". It's definitely adds a fresh new vibe to the Parm oeuvre.

    One guy who hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread is Jean-Claude Risset. He had quite a few very well regarded electronic pieces but by far, his finest moment was the 3 part "Sud". A good release that collects most (not all) of his electronic works is this one:

    https://www.discogs.com/Jean-Claude-...elease/6879929

    But getting back to "Sud". I recently revisited the piece because of this thread. By no means a "pioneer", "Sud" is from 1983 but still a very highly regarded acousmatic piece in the appropriate circles. Sometimes I feel it gets lost among all the older masters before him but I don't think that's fair. The closest comparison I have is Xenakis' "Legende d'eer", and if you heard that one but not "Sud", you'll have a decent idea of what to expect.

    "Sud" may be a bit more organic/using recognizable field recordings than the Xenakis piece, but even those sounds eventually degrade into highly detailed mico fragments of...something...which in turn morph into a wailing, scorched earth, cacophony of manipulated power electronics...and then back to calmness to end it all. Thats a very high level description, so if you really want to get lost in it, you'll just have to experience it on your own. A very worthwhile endeavor if I may say so myself!.



    best
    Michael
    If it ain't acousmatique-It's crap

  19. #44
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    Evenin,

    Even though I'm the only one posting in this thread, I still see the number of views increasing (at a slow rate, but still increasing) so, I'll keep posting things as they come to mind. I'm going to stray a little here and give you this one:

    Thierry Miroglio-"World of Percussion"

    As I was looking for the youtube video of Risset's "Sud", I came across this release that has a Risset piece on it. Miroglio is a percussionist and this release is...well, all percussion and a huge healthy slug of electronics too. Here are a couple of videos:





    This first one is longish at about 17 minutes but I think it's the centerpiece of the album. The second one is an extract from the Risset piece.

    The whole album is fantastic. Listening to it loud through headphones is quite the experience. I'm not a Deadhead at all, but the few times I saw the Dead, my favorite part of their show was the Drums and Space segment, and this album reminds me alot of that.

    Highly recommended! Maybe not that relevant to this thread but I do think the readers here would dig it. And in my defense, it does have a long Risset piece on it.

    best
    Michael
    If it ain't acousmatique-It's crap

  20. #45
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    ^^^ I'm definitely appreciating your posts neuroticdog. New and interesting stuff to me! I hope you will carry on.

    Shifting sad gears -

    In remembrance of Richard Teitebaum co-founder of MEV who just passed away.

  21. #46
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    Into the weeds here, but only a little.

    Below is the first few paragraphs from a longer academic article about Acousmatic music. For people reading this thread, if only out of some kind of perverse curiosity about the weird shit being posted here, if you read these paragraphs you will see that Acousmatic music is an actual "thing". It's usually most appreciated by its practitioners (of which I'm not), but there is a small, but vibrant community out there that have made this art form their reason for being.

    The part I'm posting is basically the bare bones definition of what it is and what it's trying to accomplish. (If music is trying to accomplish something/anything) Feel free to skip what follows if you find yourself bored to tears. A few more of my comments after the quote and another youtube.


    Sound and Narrative: Acousmatic Composition as Artistic Research



    James Andean

    Acousmatic music



    We should perhaps begin with a quick description of acousmatic music in general. At its simplest, acousmatic music is a form of electroacoustic tape music that often uses recordings taken from the world around us as a significant source of sound material. It begins in the 1940s and 1950s in Paris, with Pierre Schaeffer and musique concrète, before the adoption of the term “acousmatic” by François Bayle in the 1970s (Battier 2007). For Schaeffer, the sounds of the world become musical material: any sound that can be recorded, is then edited, treated, and manipulated, until a composition is crafted from these real-world materials.

    Central to Schaeffer's conception was his idea of “reduced listening” (Schaeffer 1966), a listening paradigm in which the source of a sound is deliberately ignored in order to focus on the sonic properties and characteristics inherent to the sound. We forget about what agent, object, or action made the sound or what the sound signifies; we focus only on the musical properties of the sound – its internal rhythms, its timbres and textures, possibly some melodic elements. The argument here is that we are blinded to the musical potential of the sounds that surround us by their roles as signifiers for the objects or actions that made the sounds. If it's raining outside, we probably don't hear a beautiful percussive pattern of raindrops on the pavement; we only hear a signifier for “It's raining”. This hidden musical potential is revealed once we, through a conscious act, remove the significative identities of the sounds, redefining a sound according only to its own sonic characteristics.

    This, then, is the key concept of musique concrète: the emancipation of sound from its source, such that works can be created that are shaped through the musical deployment of recorded sounds. This is reflected in the term “acousmatic”, which originates from Pythagoras, who would lecture his students from behind a screen on the grounds that they would be better able to focus on his words if they were not distracted by the sight of the person speaking. These students were known as the “akusmatikoi”; hence the term “acousmatic music”, in which the loudspeaker plays a similar role to Pythagoras' screen: we can focus on the sound, without being distracted by the presence of its source.

    However, while the emphasis in musique concrète was initially entirely on reduced listening and on sounds of the world freed from their sources and causes, over time it became increasingly clear that, in fact, it is nearly impossible for the human mind not to ascribe, even if only unconsciously, a string of causes and sources to the sounds we hear. Reduced listening is possible, but it requires constant, wilful, active effort on the part of the listener to deliberately ignore the possible sources of the sounds being heard; even then, the extent to which these sources are really being completely ignored is debatable.

    So, no matter how focused the creative act of composition might be on the purely musical qualities of the sound, in practice, the listener – although also fully capable of appreciating this musical level – is almost certain to simultaneously create, perhaps unwittingly, an evolving mental image constructed from the reemergence of the role of the sounds as signifiers. While reduced listening was revolutionary in adding a further dimension to our appreciation of the sounds thus arranged, it did not succeed in erasing or negating our in-built response to sound: the automatic and instinctive linking of a given sound with a source (Atkinson 2007).



    So, not too hard to understand, certainly not that impenetrable crap that will make your eyes glaze over. I found the last two paragraphs interesting because personally, when I'm listening to this stuff, I'm completely unable to reduce my listening to the essence of the sound being produced, instead I usually create a massive cinematic wide scale mind movie, usually about alien landscapes, post nuclear fallout urban tableus and other such male geeky ruminations. The article actually goes on to talk about this.

    Here is the link to the entire article: https://www.researchcatalogue.net/view/86118/86119

    Finally, another take that is more process driven about creating these sounds. It's a short video by Adrian Moore, one of the more modern alchemists giving a short lecture about how he puts music like this together and how he looks for the sounds. His enthusiasm for the art form really shines though.



    Congrats if you got this far!!!

    best
    Michael
    If it ain't acousmatique-It's crap

  22. #47
    I highly recommend listening to this absolute classic and beauty:

    Robert Normandeau - Tangram


    https://electrocd.com/en/artiste/nor...ert_Normandeau
    "The world will soon be right again,
    Innocence and undying love will reign."
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  23. #48
    So, not a pioneer, but wow, this is damned good.
    I'm not lazy. I just work so fast I'm always done.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azol View Post
    I highly recommend listening to this absolute classic and beauty:

    Robert Normandeau - Tangram


    https://electrocd.com/en/artiste/nor...ert_Normandeau

    Thanks for posting Azol, and also thanks for posting the Normandeau record. I agree with you 100%, Normadeau is one of those "newer" Acousmatic composers that started in the early 90's and continues to this day.

    He's part of the Montreal scene that I believe started when Francis Dhomont moved there from Paris. The Canadian scene is very vibrant and has been for a few decades. Alot of these artists studied under Dhomont and there is a big electro-acoustic label based out of Montreal called empreintes DIGITALes. The Montreal scene could be considered Acousmatic's "second city".

    You linked to the main portal that sells the labels product called electrocd.com. It's probably the biggest shopping mall for this kind of music and carries the whole eD catalog as well as many many other releases. They also have a pretty substantial 5.1 catalog of releases which are, for the most part, phenomenal! Unfortunately, it ain't exactly cheap, although prices have come down over the years. Very occasionally, they have sales. They just had one, so I wouldn't expect another any time soon unfortunately.

    Many of the older eD releases can be found on streaming services like iTunes and Spotify but most of this stuff is not available there. Older Normandeau releases (including "Tangram") for instance can be found on iTunes.

    There is an assload of artists that developed starting in the 90's and continue on today. At some point, I was going to do a deep dive about some of them. Here are a few:

    Robert Normandeau
    Nastasha Barrett
    Christian Calon
    Yves Daoust
    Paul Dolden
    Jonty Harrison
    Gilles Gobeil
    Monique Jean
    Elsa Justel
    Adrian Moore
    Ake Parmerud
    Denis Smalley
    Roxanne Turcotte
    Hans Tutschku

    ...and many others.

    If you are really interested, you can spend hours on this site. I just wanted to throw it out there as another resource to explore this music. it's a rabbit hole!

    best
    Michael
    If it ain't acousmatique-It's crap

  25. #50
    Hi Michael, glad you also enjoyed it,
    in fact, I first encountered Normandeau via this awesome compilation:
    https://electrocd.com/fr/album/1361/...torm_of_Drones

    This compilation is choke-full of great names to discover.
    Last edited by Azol; 04-11-2020 at 03:47 PM.
    "The world will soon be right again,
    Innocence and undying love will reign."
    - Transatlantic

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