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Thread: Top 50 "Consensus" 2000-2019 Album Ranking

  1. #26
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zappathustra View Post
    Good list. No French bands though. Poil would be essential in my opinion, or bands like Aquaserge, Setna etc...you name it.
    Yes, that's a bit of a surprise too.
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  2. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    objectively put together a consensus list
    objectively put together = statistic accuracy ?
    consensus = Popularity ?

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    Okay, clearly NOT definitive by any means. But here is my attempt to somewhat objectively put together a consensus list based on 3 primary sources: (PA, RYM, and Gnosis) and a few secondary sources. I avoided live albums, reissues, and archive releases. I let these sites sort of "define" what is and isn't *prog*. I also weight out items that were rated highly but only by a few people. I tried to also be sensitive to balance the most popular (lowest common denominator) with the more obscure (relatively speaking).

    This is not a perfect list, not does it claim to be. It is also not my personal list. It's an experiment for fun (blame COVID-19). It's essentially how people like us, who have listened to these albums, have rated over the last 20 years. You'll note that Magma, Wilson, and Opeth dominate quite a bit.

    It's a bit more representative of newer artists (last 20 years), but still skews towards the 90s artists. It also tends to favor the 2000s to the 2010s. There's also a few pretty interesting surprises.
    All the albums I have on that list (about a fifth), I very much enjoy. A few I'd agree are among the best of the millennium (V, Lift Your Skinny Fists Like Antennas To Heaven). But there's a lot of modern prog that is very niche, so not many people hear it, so it never makes lists like these.

    What does surprise me about these sorts of lists is how poorly musicians from the 1970s do. Yes, Pink Floyd, Jethro Tull and King Crimson dominate lists of the best prog of all time, and they -- and their various members -- have released albums in the last 20 years, some of which were pretty good. But none get much attention here... except for Magma!

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  4. #29
    Moderator Poisoned Youth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
    objectively put together = statistic accuracy ?
    consensus = Popularity ?
    You left out the word "somewhat" and I tried to be very clear how this list was compiled.
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  5. #30
    Moderator Poisoned Youth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunRunner2 View Post
    What! No Whirlwind?
    The Whirlwind was surprisingly low on PA and RYM.
    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    Boy, there's a thankless task. A lot of good albums on there, and of course some that I wouldn't have any interest in. As for the idea of a consensus among Prog-Rock fans? I'd say you have a better chance of being attacked by a flying pancake with rabies.
    Indeed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dana5140 View Post
    3 Magma. Win!
    Pretty much every release from Magma post 2000 was higher up on lists on all three primary sources. It surprised me as I always figured it wouldn't make the grade beyond Gnosis.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    But I can get behind this as a pretty good retrospective on the most popular artists/releases in the past 20 years; with the caveat that popularity is never a perfect correlation with quality.
    Agreed. My thoughts were that getting 3 sources that tend to differ (and boy did they differ) on which albums are "popular" and highly rated would create some sort of consensus that would go beyond the lowest common denominator. Gnosis has a bias against "mainstream" post-70s prog that tends to balance out the biases of the other sites, if that makes sense.


    Quote Originally Posted by Levgan View Post
    Surprisingly good list, covers a lot of ground and isn't focused on any particular subgenre, which is a good thing. Warms my heart to see Vezhlivy Otkaz in there, and K.A. at the top works for me too. Feels weird finding Spock's Beard 11 points higher than Kid A, though — I had to rub my eyes to make sure that was indeed the case
    Kid A had a lower rating on Gnosis and PA than on RYM, whereas SB - V rated very high on PA and RYM and even had a respectable rating on Gnosis.
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Master View Post
    I would have guessed that Phideaux's Doomsday Afternoon would have been top five or even number one. Then again, only like two of those would be in my top 50. I guess I'm out of touch with what other prog listeners like.
    Don't get too wrapped up in any one release. If you consider that this is 20 years of data, a list of 50 only represents about 2.5 albums per year. So lots of great music will get left off. FWIW, that Phideaux album just missed the list.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    Surprised that Present is there twice and UZ none
    Clivages was below the cutoff point, but on the larger list.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zappathustra View Post
    Good list. No French bands though. Poil would be essential in my opinion, or bands like Aquaserge, Setna etc...you name it.
    Brossaklitt would have made the next tier. Setna couldn't quite compete. Aquaserge was much further down.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    At least Setna, but yeah, those three should be there.
    The way this list was compiled, no they shouldn't.
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  6. #31
    Moderator Poisoned Youth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    But there's a lot of modern prog that is very niche, so not many people hear it, so it never makes lists like these.

    What does surprise me about these sorts of lists is how poorly musicians from the 1970s do. Yes, Pink Floyd, Jethro Tull and King Crimson dominate lists of the best prog of all time, and they -- and their various members -- have released albums in the last 20 years, some of which were pretty good. But none get much attention here... except for Magma!
    Consider the 3 primary sources have rating driven by its user base. Gnosis has the most restrictive user base. RYM is the least restrictive. It's also most likely that a Gnosis rater (over the other two) might rate on all 3 sites, somewhat skewing results overall for a Gnosis fanboy band like Magma.

    Also consider that "big 5" groups have a much wider rating audience AND raters that rate not only in the moment but on releases several years after their release. As such, one has to consider that Magma benefits from a more rabid fan base whereas Yes, KC, etc. have a broader and more casual fan base. Of the big 5 groups, KC has rated the highest post-2000, but even then, fans may be rating that KC album in comparison to their (perceived) best works from the 70s. So it will bring the overall rating down.
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  7. #32
    Moderator Poisoned Youth's Avatar
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    I was also going to make a comment on one of the flaws of using these sources and help explain why there are some obscure records that made the list.

    All Traps on Earth – A Drop of Light (2018)
    Jordsjo- Nattfiolen (2019)
    Universal Totem Orchestra – Mathematical Mother (2016)
    Birds and Buildings – Multipurpose Trap (2013)

    These four, imo, represent albums that benefited from a brief amount of hype from the niche fan bases. Especially for the slightly older albums, no one in 2020 is talking about UTO, but it was the number 1 rated studio album on PA in 2016 AND finished well on RYM and Gnosis that year.

    But because the album/group is not very popular, it's likely not been revisited and scrutinized over time. But it's difficult to assess that kind of thing, so for the purpose of compiling this list, it scores higher than perhaps it should.

    This may also explain why an album like IQ's Resistance makes the list and yet Dark Matter and Road of Bones did not. They have had more opportunity to be scrutinized over time.
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  8. #33
    Outraged bystander markwoll's Avatar
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    Yes the list has some very niche-y material for a "Prog Consensus".
    But like you say, if you stir up a fanbase enough just about any album can rise to the top.
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  9. #34
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markwoll View Post
    Yes the list has some very niche-y material for a "Prog Consensus".
    But like you say, if you stir up a fanbase enough just about any album can rise to the top.
    Yeah, I guess that the well-established neo-prog bands and their neo-symphonic descendants (like Big Big Train, for ex) probably sell more albums worldwide than in any other genre, bar maybe progmetal (which seems in quite a decline, IMHO)

    Sooo, strictly in terms of sales as determining factor, I would definitely agree more with Prog mag, DPRP or SOT yearly or decade lists as more reliable.

    But of course, I strongly beg to differ in terms of quality, as opposed to quantity.
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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    Birds and Buildings – Multipurpose Trap (2013)

    These four, imo, represent albums that benefited from a brief amount of hype from the niche fan bases. But because the album/group is not very popular, it's likely not been revisited and scrutinized over time. But it's difficult to assess that kind of thing, so for the purpose of compiling this list, it scores higher than perhaps it should.
    I was surprised at first to observe two albums by Birds & Buildings and yet none by Dan Brittons' other great prog band, Deluge Grander. "August In The Urals" and "The Form Of The Good" at the minimum both received close to an "11" rating on Gnosis, at or close to a "4" on PA (incl. 34% giving "August" 5 stars) and while brought down to the mid to upper 3's on RYM, those ratings were probably skewed by your logic above, and the fact that a few raters apparently didn't appreciate the "avant" aspect of the bands output, thus negating a good number of 4+'s. Of course, the same RYM logic held true for "Multipurpose Trap", so the math ended up disfavoring Deluge Grander vs. Birds & Buildings due the Gnosis/PA input.

    You obviously did a top notch, statistical job on the math aspect. However, it shows how tough it is to make a Top 50 list when an outstanding album such as "August" (or the other DG albums) don't make the cut. Although I like Spock's V, I would substitute any of the DG albums for that release, but in the end the math rules in this approach.

  11. #36
    Would be interesting to change the rules a bit and only allow one album (highest rated) per artist. Id love to see what makes it on to the list then.


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  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
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  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Zappathustra View Post
    Good list. No French bands though.
    Ummmm... Magma much?
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  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Sturgeon's Lawyer View Post
    Ummmm... Magma much?
    They're Kobaian, so they don't count

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