Thread: COVID-19 Coronavirus Information and Discussion

  1. #751
    Best wishes to the people here who are affected by the virus or by employment problems. This is tough.

  2. #752
    Moderator Poisoned Youth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdclark View Post
    I wish people would not post things like this without citing the source explicitly. "Heard an interview" is not a citation, and can't be checked and verified.

    It is just horrible that patients with lupus and RA, who rely on hydroxychloroquine, are already finding it hard to source because it's being hoarded for C19 use, despite there being no clinical evidence that it works.
    Iím sure Lou will share the source. But your latter criticism is a valid one. It shows the power of amplifying a message. Now people are hoarding the supply and putting sick people (COVID and otherwise) at risk.


    Quote Originally Posted by MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER View Post
    does it kill the virus or just mitigate the symptoms?
    Mitigation, from my understanding.
    WANTED: Sig-worthy quote.

  3. #753
    Member Vic2012's Avatar
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    I've talked with a couple tin-foil hat wearing types recently. It's a biological weapon. I don't buy it of course.

  4. #754
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic2012 View Post
    I've talked with a couple tin-foil hat wearing types recently. It's a biological weapon. I don't buy it of course.
    Probably a coalition of Bilderberg, Opus Dei, CIA and Trumps wife...

  5. #755
    Occipital Provocatee Plasmatopia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic2012 View Post
    I've talked with a couple tin-foil hat wearing types recently. It's a biological weapon. I don't buy it of course.
    A friend of mine told me yesterday there's some sort of correlation if you look at a map (of the USA) of where COVID-19 cases are occurring and a map showing the instances of sealed indictments. That's as far as we got, but that seems pretty far out there, lol. I have no idea what the connection could possibly be.
    Just sitting at home rocking back and forth and jealously caressing my invisible collection of theoretical assets.

  6. #756
    Jazzbo manquť Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klonk View Post
    Just found out Dad is indeed positive. At least now we know for sure.
    Best wishes to your family. Hope everyone gets through this all right!
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  7. #757
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    Take a shot of Laphroaig and tell us if you can still smell and taste it.
    That should wake the dead in Wuhan and Northern Italy

    Quote Originally Posted by Klonk View Post
    Just found out Dad is indeed positive. At least now we know for sure.
    Thoughts to you

    My brother in Luxembourg and his teenage son have been positive (11 and 9 days ago)

    But toda, it's my brother that answered the phone
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  8. #758
    I talked with a Professor of Thoracic Surgery here in Japan the other day (I work at a large hospital complex) who made an interesting and compelling argument against massive nationwide testing (similar to what Zeuhlmate was saying about Denmark).

    Her point was that attempting to test even 1/3 of all Japanís populace would be a largely meaningless waste of human, temporal, and financial resources. This would mean 45 million tests (population is about 130 million). Think how long it would take to carry these tests out (they donít get done simultaneously), get the results (ditto), find and inform the infected (not to mention the non-infected) and then isolate/treat the former. By the time this would be done, many of those who initially tested negative would have become positive in the interim but based on the test result would assume that they are fine.

    And there would still be 2/3 of the populace left to test with the same gaps.

    It would be a never ending cycle.

    Thatís why, she argued, carrying out testing based upon having a threshold of clear and/or severe symptoms and actively using resources to treat those people is more effective than mass testing. Other than that, practice all the reasonable protocols to minimize your chances.

    S. Korea has been praised for widespread testing but even there the number is still like 1 in every 30,000 citizens. In S. Koreaís case this is because they had one enormous local outbreak among a fringe religious group and authorities could focus upon mass testing members, their immediate relations and contacts, and those in the geographical Daegu outbreak area. Contrary to popular belief, S. Korea is not testing a large percentage of its citizens.

  9. #759
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdclark View Post
    I wish people would not post things like this without citing the source explicitly. "Heard an interview" is not a citation, and can't be checked and verified.

    It is just horrible that patients with lupus and RA, who rely on hydroxychloroquine, are already finding it hard to source because it's being hoarded for C19 use, despite there being no clinical evidence that it works.
    Isn't this a prescription drug? How can people hoard it?

  10. #760
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teddy Vengeance View Post
    I talked with a Professor of Thoracic Surgery here in Japan the other day (I work at a large hospital complex) who made an interesting and compelling argument against massive nationwide testing (similar to what Zeuhlmate was saying about Denmark).

    Her point was that attempting to test even 1/3 of all Japan’s populace would be a largely meaningless waste of human, temporal, and financial resources. This would mean 45 million tests (population is about 130 million). Think how long it would take to carry these tests out (they don’t get done simultaneously), get the results (ditto), find and inform the infected (not to mention the non-infected) and then isolate/treat the former. By the time this would be done, many of those who initially tested negative would have become positive in the interim but based on the test result would assume that they are fine.

    And there would still be 2/3 of the populace left to test with the same gaps.

    It would be a never ending cycle.

    That’s why, she argued, carrying out testing based upon having a threshold of clear and/or severe symptoms and actively using resources to treat those people is more effective than mass testing. Other than that, practice all the reasonable protocols to minimize your chances.

    S. Korea has been praised for widespread testing but even there the number is still like 1 in every 30,000 citizens. In S. Korea’s case this is because they had one enormous local outbreak among a fringe religious group and authorities could focus upon mass testing members, their immediate relations and contacts, and those in the geographical Daegu outbreak area. Contrary to popular belief, S. Korea is not testing a large percentage of its citizens.
    I disagree. Mass testing is just about the most effective thing that can be done IMO. More information is always better than less. It should be universal not 1/3 of the population. It can be rolled out by priority, systematically and intelligently, the very few who test negative and later are positive is not a reason to avoid administering the tests by any stretch of the imagination. Sean posted an article a while back regarding a town in Italy that stopped the virus via mass-testing: https://amp.theguardian.com/world/20...3qIKtmGMEgIK1o

    We need universal testing.

  11. #761
    While I’m here...

    Some of you might have heard that Japan’s relatively benign official Covid-19 case numbers are due to a wish to hide the actual number in order to keep the Olympics going as planned — national face-saving, economic benefits and all that.

    Ain’t so.

    I’m not always a fan of Japanese policy makers but the people who decide such things (which include the IOC) aren’t stupid. They would know that...

    1. Even if they made the argument that, hey, Japan is not heavily infected, they would still know that fans and athletes from most visiting sporting countries are. So it wouldn’t make sense to welcome them to come and subsequently ‘infect’ Japan.

    2. If they knew Japan’s case numbers were actually exponentially higher than announced, and still proceeded to carry out the games under the guise of ‘we’re just fine thank you’, an enormous number of foreign fans and athletes would become inflected while in Japan. Hardly good for the nation’s ‘face’.

    3. If other nations are suffering, their athletes and fans simply wouldn’t come anyway, so the games would be meaningless regardless of the domestic condition. No saving face in that. Negative economic outcomes too.

    In a few days, I expect that a postponement threshold will have been reached. The Japanese government and the IOC are waiting for this. Almost nobody here expects it to go off as planned since there is no drop in cases in immediate sight.

  12. #762
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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    ^^^ It just happened. Posponed to 2021.

  13. #763
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeuhlmate View Post
    ^^^ It just happened. Posponed to 2021.
    I’m a freaking Nostradamus!

    Kinda makes my previous post moot though.
    Last edited by Teddy Vengeance; 03-24-2020 at 10:20 AM.

  14. #764
    ALL ACCESS Gruno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teddy Vengeance View Post
    Iím a freaking Nostradamus!

    Kinda makes my previous post moot though.
    If it means anything to ya, I skipped it.


  15. #765
    Member Vic2012's Avatar
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    I'm working at the office. It's mayhem. People trying to VPN in and nothing is working. It's been a flustercluck.....lol

  16. #766
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    Oh. I just saw this. Good move on the part of the olympic commitee. Let's consider the whole of 2020 a bust and move on. I doubt we'll see a concert, show or festival this year.
    https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/corona...2021-1.4865579

  17. #767
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    In this time when we should all be pulling together in national unity we hear that Democrats are stalling the relief bill with unreasonable demands. Then my Democrat daughter shows us a news report that says the Republicans are demanding things as well that are holding things up. Does this surprise me? Does it surprise you? Is it the biased leanings of the news stations doing the reporting? Is any of it really true? Unfortunately we will never really know the truth, if there is a real truth to be found.

    All we can do is keep ourselves, our neighbors and family as safe as we can and keep driving on. It's what any of us do anyway if you want to keep living this life. So maybe limit the time you have the TV on and try not to get mad at the politicians, after all, they are doing what they do and what they have always done. Changing them is like asking a dog to shake off its fur. I don't want to get into any political debates here, that's against the rules, but I think we can all agree that this unprecedented disaster will eventually pass and we will all get back to doing what we do. We just have to make it through as best we can and stay safe and healthy.

    So listen to the health experts. Listen to the financial market experts. And stay away from the politicians and angry naysayers on both sides. The truth lies somewhere in the middle, as always. Stay healthy my friends.
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  18. #768
    Outraged bystander markwoll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddhabreath View Post
    I disagree. Mass testing is just about the most effective thing that can be done IMO. More information is always better than less. It should be universal not 1/3 of the population. It can be rolled out by priority, systematically and intelligently, the very few who test negative and later are positive is not a reason to avoid administering the tests by any stretch of the imagination. Sean posted an article a while back regarding a town in Italy that stopped the virus via mass-testing: https://amp.theguardian.com/world/20...3qIKtmGMEgIK1o

    We need universal testing.
    As noted, the problem with testing for a highly transmittable disease is that the test is good for the time that the test sample is collected.
    If you could get a result, act on it and somehow prevent subsequent infection in the case of a negative result it works.
    The problem is that a person could possibly get infected at any time ( depending on their circumstances ), so a negative result in an otherwise 'normal' person does not equal always negative results.
    Testing symptomatic patients and their immediate circle is prudent.

    Whataboutism = What about testing for all highly transmittable disease at the same time Hepatitis, TB, HIV? Yeah, no. There would be issues.
    <TinFoilHat> And at the same time we could populate our National DNA Database </TinFoilHat>
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  19. #769
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobM View Post
    In this time when we should all be pulling together in national unity we hear that Democrats are stalling the relief bill with unreasonable demands. Then my Democrat daughter shows us a news report that says the Republicans are demanding things as well that are holding things up. Does this surprise me? Does it surprise you?
    Allow me to clarify. The issue is that the bill that McConnell insists on includes a $500 billion corporate slush fund to be administered by Steve Mnuchin and the Treasury Department without meaningful congressional oversight. In fact the bill actually states that the corporate recipients of these funds will be secret for six months. The Democrats demand oversight and guarantees that these funds be used to retain their employees on payroll rather than for stock buybacks, executive bonuses and the like. Trumps response is that he will provide the oversight.

    I'm just reporting the facts. I leave it to the reader to form their own opinions since stating mine honestly would be a violation of the rules and almost certainly get me banned.
    Last edited by Buddhabreath; 03-24-2020 at 11:03 AM.

  20. #770
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    Quote Originally Posted by markwoll View Post
    As noted, the problem with testing for a highly transmittable disease is that the test is good for the time that the test sample is collected.
    If you could get a result, act on it and somehow prevent subsequent infection in the case of a negative result it works.
    The problem is that a person could possibly get infected at any time ( depending on their circumstances ), so a negative result in an otherwise 'normal' person does not equal always negative results.
    Testing symptomatic patients and their immediate circle is prudent.

    Whataboutism = What about testing for all highly transmittable disease at the same time Hepatitis, TB, HIV? Yeah, no. There would be issues.
    <TinFoilHat> And at the same time we could populate our National DNA Database </TinFoilHat>
    I think that's a reasonable concern, but I don't know the percentage of people having a "negative" result that would later contract the virus, the impact on the eventual results, or why that would obviate the benefits of universal testing such as isolating positives including asymptomatic carriers of the virus. Furthermore, I suspect that the effect of this could be mitigated by a well-thought, strategic and systematic roll out of hundreds of millions of tests. Part of that strategy might be rationally prioritized repeated testing.
    Last edited by Buddhabreath; 03-24-2020 at 11:07 AM.

  21. #771
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roddenberry View Post
    Oh. I just saw this. Good move on the part of the olympic commitee. Let's consider the whole of 2020 a bust and move on. I doubt we'll see a concert, show or festival this year.
    https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/corona...2021-1.4865579
    Progday must go on. Are you there God? It's me, JKL2000.

  22. #772
    The ideal scenario, IMHO, would be widespread testing in conjunction with isolation. Testing identifies asymptomatic people who may need treatment. Isolation keeps it from being spread while your test is being done. Either way, you need to isolate. And the data from testing helps predicting trends and outcomes.

    These are not mutually exclusive concepts.
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  23. #773
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    Positive vibes and thoughts for Klonk and family

    We're debating going out for a grocery run, which means going to another small rural town about 13 miles away. My wife keeps adding to the list (this whole thing makes her anxious and her level of anxiety is high even on good days).
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  24. #774
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    The ideal scenario, IMHO, would be widespread testing in conjunction with isolation
    Absolutely. The point is to isolate those testing positive including people who are asymptomatic so they don't spread the virus. That is exactly what is happening now due a dearth of testing!

  25. #775
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    Quote Originally Posted by jglfan View Post
    Isn't this a prescription drug? How can people hoard it?
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/23/healt...rus/index.html

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