What's a 'harder push'? Most experts I've read have stated (and explained) that it will take up to a year to develop a vaccine. Until then, I'll continue to practice social distancing and other Covid-19 protocol.Originally Posted by Shadow
What's a 'harder push'? Most experts I've read have stated (and explained) that it will take up to a year to develop a vaccine. Until then, I'll continue to practice social distancing and other Covid-19 protocol.
The "push for a cure" is a separate process from the one that puts workers at risk on a daily basis. A better question is whether there would be a mandate to keep meat-packing plants open if working on their production lines for the summer were a requirement to graduate from Ivy League colleges.
A postcard from the future: life in Denmark after the lockdown
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...after-lockdown
^^^
The thing is - we don't know what worked.
https://translate.google.com/transla...ods-genaabning
^^^
Well, it seems like a sense of unity, self control/discipline and rationality is present.
Attributes that seem less present in the US at this time.
Indeed. I have a client in Copenhagen and my US-based contact tells me how unselfish and disciplined the community is.
"The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"
There is probably some truth in that. Behaviour is important. Look at my previous link to the situation in Japan where there was no Lockdown, but only about 900 deaths related to covid-19. Almost unreal.
The population in Japan is around 125 millions - Denmark is only around 5,5 millions.
(Pokes head inside) Is it safe to come in here now?
As noted, Japan's response to the situation has been quite successful (knocks on bamboo). We didn't lockdown a la most of the West but, for about a month, under a 'State of Emergency' that allowed local authorities more power to set policy, 99% of bars, karaoke joints, gyms, sex establishments, and restaurants were shuttered. At some popular parks, parking lots were chained. In my outlying prefecture (no current active cases, only 17 in total) flights from Tokyo were reduced from 10 to 1 per day with passengers heavily screened (Golden Week campaigns involved asking people from outside to PLEASE NOT visit). Malls were closed except for food sections. Many places required mask entry and the use of temperature guns, and still do.
Some of the above have opened up after the dropping of the emergency measures. Most students are finally back at school, albeit with several restrictions. Masks are ubiquitous (98% indoors I'd say, 50% outside, more in Tokyo/Osaka) and social distancing is generally maintained, although, interestingly, very few if any cases seem to have emerged from the crowded commuter trains in Tokyo/Osaka areas. Why? Because of 1) masks 2) people don't touch things and, most of all 3) people are silent on trains. It is boisterous, loud talk (especially eye-to-eye, face-to-face) that is as contaminating as sneezing and coughing.
So, not Sweden-level open but, perhaps, Japan maintained the standard for E. Asian countries: Taiwan, S. Korea, Vietnam, Thailand have all had successful responses too without lockdowns or any widespread, random testing but through self-discipline and a sense of good common order.
In Japan, none of this was backed by the force of law. No one was required to quarantine or shut down their establishment. No one was arrested for violations of distancing.
This is one of the misunderstood notions about Confucian societies -- people are not compliant because they are cowed by authority, rather, you don't need in-your-face laws and heavy governance if authorities have the mandate of the people. Compliance arises because of public agreement that doing X is a good thing. Persuasion arises through public campaigns and education, not via legal threats or demands. A lot of Japanese aren't fond of PM Abe but political affiliations did not determine degrees of compliance. It was simply agreed upon as sensible policy by the public. People feel like they are shareholders, that they have a stake in society and its well-being.
Which is another thing that I like about many Asian countries. They don't depend on, nor are led by, charismatic leaders with big ass personalities who direct policy through dictums. They are relatively faceless (Who is the head honcho in Vietnam, for example -- no one knows, right? Actually, any number of officials there have primary influence) and consensus-built.
Japanese TV corona discussions were of a high quality. You'd have a scientist, a few journalists, an academic or two, a few entertaining 'commentators' of the S. Fry or J. Stewart variety. No one shouted over anyone else. Some questioned government policy, some defended certain authority actions but it was not based upon established political allegiances. Generally, it was both in-depth and entertaining, not dry. The situation in several foreign countries (I saw them discuss Norway, Belgium, Chile, and Mauritius in one episode) and epidemic histories were regularly examined. Watching this made the public feel that the people directing policy (which is not nearly as top down in these societies as many in the West assume) more or less knew what they were doing and could be trusted. PM Abe often deferred to the various Ad Hoc committees made up of virologists, epidemiologists etc. to establish policy. Every Japanese person (if you can read or speak Japanese) had access to this information (it was generally the foreign residents who were left to concoct bizarre conspiracies and knee-jerk cynicism because many hadn't bothered to learn the language or mix into society).
Yes, I wave the flag of these countries (China is a different animal in many ways so I don't wave theirs) and these are some of the reasons I choose to call this region my home (I'm originally from Canada).
I think after Covid-19 we'll all become a little more Confucian, a touch more Asian.
Last edited by Teddy Vengeance; 05-28-2020 at 10:41 PM.
Nothing to do with COVID, Jed. ^^^
I think everyone who thinks like this in the U.S. envies seeing this sentiment in action. Thank you for posting.
WANTED: Sig-worthy quote.
Thanks for sharing that perspective! Very interesting.
<sig out of order>
The source of that notorious band, ProgEars Will Eat Itself!
Seriously - huge respect to you guys who undertake the unpaid & underappreciated labour of moderating this site - literally, wihout you, it wouldn't exist... And then where would we all be?
As the great Bard of Glasgow used to sing (sort of): "If it wisnae fur yer Moddies, where wid ye be?/Ye'd be stuck inside the hoose, or infurmaree"!
Well...ie, that's one way of looking at it.
Apparently Italy responded this way as well. The government doesn't have a great record, but people just mutually understood this was serious and they all needed to do as they were told in this situation. Obviously they got hit hard like us here in NY, but it would have been worse if they hadn't.
Last edited by JKL2000; 05-29-2020 at 09:52 PM.
I found out this week that a friend of mine had COVID. He and his wife were in Italy and left two days before the lock-down. If it wasn't for his asthma acting up at an unusual time, he might not have know he had it. And, he apparently, got it from his wife who had some minor throat irritation. Chances are, her case wasn't counted, like many others, I presume.
He's now donating plasma.
"The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"
A good friend of mine got a letter in the mail telling him his long-time dentist has died of Covid-19. Another even better friend, who's a musician in LA, is running out of money, and he has no living family at all, probably no health insurance, etc.
The apocalypse has officially arrived! First Covid, then parts of Downtown Phoenix being destroyed by rioting, and now a monsoon thunderstorm on MAY THIRTIETH!!! If it starts raining frogs tomorrow, it's been nice knowing all of you.
"Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"--Dalai Lama
Look for a giant spike in Covid over the next month.
NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF STUPID PEOPLE IN LARGE GROUPS!
Southern States stepping up to show Covid leadership: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZWw7z6X...pg&name=medium
Maryland is worse than what it shows.
NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF STUPID PEOPLE IN LARGE GROUPS!
Could nearly half of those with Covid-19 have no idea they are infected?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...y-are-infected
I did bloodwork today so they can renew my med prescriptions. They asked if I wanted to have a blood test for Covid antibodies. Yes, of course. We'll need an extra tube of blood they asked. No extra charge.......
Everyone - I understand there seems to be a new crisis each week and we live in strange times, but we will not be discussing the protests on PE or next week's crisis on PE. The discussion needs to stay on COVID.
And while it's been suggested by some who have reached out that we should close this thread, that's our call to make. Everyone has the power to skip over this thread. It will stay open for now. With the reopening and current events, it may feel like the "pandemic is over", but let's not get ahead of ourselves.
WANTED: Sig-worthy quote.
This may be of some interest: (Recent video about Swedish soft lockdown)
Check out my concert videos on my youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/broadaccent
Thanks for posting the video about the coronavirus in Sweden. I'm always interested in what goes on in other countries, and the video seemed to me much better than a series of conflicting rumors, which is what we usually get in the US.
We're trying to build a monument to show that we were here
It won't be visible through the air
And there won't be any shade to cool the monument to prove that we were here. - Gene Parsons, 1973
We should have done more, admits architect of Sweden's Covid-19 strategy
Anders Tegnell says there was ‘potential for improvement’ in country’s strategy to fight pandemic
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...anders-tegnell
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