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Thread: COVID-19 Coronavirus Information and Discussion

  1. #4701
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    This kind of stuff really makes me angry. Your company loses NOTHING by letting you carry those 5 days. It's just cruel. Especially considering all that's going on right now.
    That is kind of standard practice though. With Pfizer they normally allow a maximum of 5 days’ vacation carryover. Those 5 days must be used first, before you use any accrued vacation for that year. For 2020, due to the COVID situation, they allowed 10 days carryover, but it was the same deal where you had to use it first. Either way you can still only carry over a limited amount of vacation even in pre-COVID-19 times. The thought is that vacation is there to be used and the company wants people to take time off for themselves. Of course, we are in weird times right now, so it will be interesting to see how policies like his end up for 2021.

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    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    I know it's standard practice. That doesn't make it any less wrong.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    Judging by this the next Progday should have about 500 people.
    In my case, my mortgage gets paid off a year earlier.

  4. #4704
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveSly View Post
    That is kind of standard practice though. With Pfizer they normally allow a maximum of 5 days’ vacation carryover. Those 5 days must be used first, before you use any accrued vacation for that year. For 2020, due to the COVID situation, they allowed 10 days carryover, but it was the same deal where you had to use it first. Either way you can still only carry over a limited amount of vacation even in pre-COVID-19 times. The thought is that vacation is there to be used and the company wants people to take time off for themselves. Of course, we are in weird times right now, so it will be interesting to see how policies like his end up for 2021.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails
    I know it's standard practice. That doesn't make it any less wrong.
    There is a soft cost for companies to allow vacation to be carried over. Before our company implemented the maximum 5-day carry-over rule, we had a long-term staff member who accrued over 10 weeks of vacation time and then wanted to take it all in one year. That meant the company would lose 10 weeks of production from her, and it would put an extra strain on the staff who would have to pick up the slack during her absence, which was unfair to the other staff. That was the catalyst for a new vacation policy.

    In addition, people need to take vacation for their mental well-being. Limiting carry-over ensures that employees take those much needed breaks throughout the year. I didn't realize how much I needed a vacation until I was forced to use up some days at the end of 2020 or lose them. If you had asked me if I wanted to take that time off, I would have said no. But I took an extra week off after the Christmas break and it was wonderful. I needed it, but I was so into the groove of working that I didn't realize how much I needed it until I was in the midst of it.

  5. #4705
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn View Post
    There is a soft cost for companies to allow vacation to be carried over. Before our company implemented the maximum 5-day carry-over rule, we had a long-term staff member who accrued over 10 weeks of vacation time and then wanted to take it all in one year. That meant the company would lose 10 weeks of production from her, and it would put an extra strain on the staff who would have to pick up the slack during her absence, which was unfair to the other staff. That was the catalyst for a new vacation policy.

    In addition, people need to take vacation for their mental well-being. Limiting carry-over ensures that employees take those much needed breaks throughout the year. I didn't realize how much I needed a vacation until I was forced to use up some days at the end of 2020 or lose them. If you had asked me if I wanted to take that time off, I would have said no. But I took an extra week off after the Christmas break and it was wonderful. I needed it, but I was so into the groove of working that I didn't realize how much I needed it until I was in the midst of it.
    I have a friend who works for the FAA (he does maintenance at several small airports in Southwest Michigan. They have a system where vacation and sick time are all rolled into one and there are no limits of carrying anything over. He has stockpiled a ton of time off. I don't know exactly how much he has, but I know he has a lot.

    As you mention, the company I worked for really encouraged people to take vacation time, which is why they limited carryover. I never had an issue with it, but then again I almost always used up most if not all of my vacation, so did not run into any carryover problems.

  6. #4706
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn View Post
    There is a soft cost for companies to allow vacation to be carried over. Before our company implemented the maximum 5-day carry-over rule, we had a long-term staff member who accrued over 10 weeks of vacation time and then wanted to take it all in one year. That meant the company would lose 10 weeks of production from her, and it would put an extra strain on the staff who would have to pick up the slack during her absence, which was unfair to the other staff. That was the catalyst for a new vacation policy.
    But....that person worked for all of those years without taking a vacation, thereby providing a break to the staff who would have had to pick up their slack. And I'm assuming that the person who did not take their vacation also filled in for others who did?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn View Post
    In addition, people need to take vacation for their mental well-being. Limiting carry-over ensures that employees take those much needed breaks throughout the year. I didn't realize how much I needed a vacation until I was forced to use up some days at the end of 2020 or lose them. If you had asked me if I wanted to take that time off, I would have said no. But I took an extra week off after the Christmas break and it was wonderful. I needed it, but I was so into the groove of working that I didn't realize how much I needed it until I was in the midst of it.
    Of course they do. Which is why companies shouldn't be overworking their employees to the point where they think they shouldn't take a vacation.

    Bottom line is that you've earned that time. It's yours, and it should be up to you (within reason) how and when you take it.
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  7. #4707
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveSly View Post
    I have a friend who works for the FAA (he does maintenance at several small airports in Southwest Michigan. They have a system where vacation and sick time are all rolled into one and there are no limits of carrying anything over. He has stockpiled a ton of time off. I don't know exactly how much he has, but I know he has a lot.

    As you mention, the company I worked for really encouraged people to take vacation time, which is why they limited carryover. I never had an issue with it, but then again I almost always used up most if not all of my vacation, so did not run into any carryover problems.
    Don't get me wrong - I think everyone should be encouraged to take their vacation during the year in which it's earned. Everyone needs a break, and this attitude that not missing time is heroic is archaic and barbaric.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  8. #4708
    Member ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    But....that person worked for all of those years without taking a vacation, thereby providing a break to the staff who would have had to pick up their slack. And I'm assuming that the person who did not take their vacation also filled in for others who did?



    Of course they do. Which is why companies shouldn't be overworking their employees to the point where they think they shouldn't take a vacation.

    Bottom line is that you've earned that time. It's yours, and it should be up to you (within reason) how and when you take it.
    Yes, that's all true, but not for extended periods of time. This person was in our Customer Service department, so it also affects when others can take their vacation as we can't have too many people off at the same time or it affects service levels and we piss off customers.

    It's easy to juggle vacations when everyone gets 3-4 weeks, but its very difficult to treat everyone fairly when one person is trying to take 10 weeks off. She didn't lose the vacation time that she had earned but, as I mentioned, it did lead to changes in our vacation policy going forward.

  9. #4709
    All Things Must Pass spellbound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn
    We're not supposed to carry over any vacation days.
    Sorry to hear they are still doing that, and in Canada, which should be more advanced than the US in employee rights. You earned your vacation days, and a company shouldn't be able to tell you how to use them or take them away from you when New Years rolls around. I left one company for primarily that reason. They had been letting us employees carry over our vacation time, and they decided to stop allowing that and start taking away the time off you had earned if you couldn't use it up by the end of the year. What we had been doing was using our vacation days in January and February on occasions when the winter weather prevented us from doing scheduled field work. This was a favor to the company (I would prefer to take my vacations days in summer, or save some in case I got sick because sick days were already a thing of the past in this country), as well as a way for us to get paid on a day we would not have been able to get any work done. But no. The company decided to be employee-unfriendly over something that cost them nothing and kept production running smoothly. I don't know who, if anyone, does the thinking in corporations. My boss told me I could continue to do the company a favor by using vacation days on snow days in January and February before I had accrued much time off due to having vacation accrual start over on Jan. 1. I asked how that would work, and he said I could owe the company for the vacation time I used. Nope. I'm not owing my soul to the company store.

  10. #4710
    Member since March 2004 mozo-pg's Avatar
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    ^^ Regarding taking over earned time in the workplace, I can carry over sick days (3 weeks per year) but this is because you need to accrue three months of short term disability (not covered) before long term (covered) kicks in. If you did collect this sick time over the years, you're responsible for the short term (3 month period) before the long term kicks in.
    I've been in my current position for 12 years (worked in the private sector beforehand) and I'm at 4 weeks of vacation a year plus 2 personal days. I think this gradually increases when you have 15, 20, and 25 years of service (keeps increasing at this intervals for a total of 5 weeks). When I worked in the private sector we put all business on hold for 1 month's time off in the summer. So the public and private sector are basically equal for me.

    I'm 58 so I'll get another 2 or so days once I have 15 years. I can't for the life of me remember if I can carry over the 1 week of vacation I accrued this year going into the next fiscal year. I'm going to have the check this out.

    I heard mention of Canada's social safety net. Canadians are more tolerant of the state intervention in the economy and society but we're far behind of Eurpoean countries, that get 6 or 8 weeks of vacation!! One thing Canadians are proud of is universal health care (no direct charges for any type of health service). This is socialism from some country's viewpoint but we still have a free market economic, just more support from government.
    Last edited by mozo-pg; 02-24-2021 at 01:12 PM.
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  11. #4711
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    Regarding the vacation day discussion, I should mention that I work for a very small company that gives employees a lot of flexibility in other ways. Although our vacation policy states no carry-over, this is really only implemented when people are being seen as abusing the system. For example, I have been carrying over that weeks vacation since 2019. I'm sure that if we were to reschedule our Portugal trip for 2022 and I asked to carry over that week to use for the trip, it would not be a problem.

    We have a sick-leave policy, I don't know what it is because it's never enforced. If you're sick, stay home. One of our staff was off work for three weeks because she and her family had covid. I'm sure that our sick leave policy is not three weeks. I'm also pretty sure that the company continued to pay her full salary during this time regardless of policy.

    Our Executive Assistant's mother died a couple of years ago. The policy is three days paid leave for the death of an immediate family member. She was off for seven business days and was paid full-salary.

    Setting policy is a necessary evil so that you have a safety net in place if you need it. Being reasonable with making exceptions to that policy is another thing entirely.

  12. #4712
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    The short-sightedness of corporations has never ceased to amaze me. When my brother left his job at a state attorney general's office he had been there quite a while. 900+ hours of unused vacation and the state paid out every penny.
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  13. #4713
    Member since March 2004 mozo-pg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn View Post
    Regarding the vacation day discussion, I should mention that I work for a very small company that gives employees a lot of flexibility in other ways. Although our vacation policy states no carry-over, this is really only implemented when people are being seen as abusing the system. For example, I have been carrying over that weeks vacation since 2019. I'm sure that if we were to reschedule our Portugal trip for 2022 and I asked to carry over that week to use for the trip, it would not be a problem.

    We have a sick-leave policy, I don't know what it is because it's never enforced. If you're sick, stay home. One of our staff was off work for three weeks because she and her family had covid. I'm sure that our sick leave policy is not three weeks. I'm also pretty sure that the company continued to pay her full salary during this time regardless of policy.

    Our Executive Assistant's mother died a couple of years ago. The policy is three days paid leave for the death of an immediate family member. She was off for seven business days and was paid full-salary.

    Setting policy is a necessary evil so that you have a safety net in place if you need it. Being reasonable with making exceptions to that policy is another thing entirely.
    It sounds like you've got a great employer. They respect their workers and accomodate them when required. That's really all someone can ask for. Health first, work is central but you have to take care of yourself.
    What can this strange device be? When I touch it, it brings forth a sound (2112)

  14. #4714
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerjo View Post
    The short-sightedness of corporations has never ceased to amaze me. When my brother left his job at a state attorney general's office he had been there quite a while. 900+ hours of unused vacation and the state paid out every penny.
    As it should be. Again, he earned that.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  15. #4715
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn View Post
    In addition, people need to take vacation for their mental well-being. Limiting carry-over ensures that employees take those much needed breaks throughout the year. I didn't realize how much I needed a vacation until I was forced to use up some days at the end of 2020 or lose them. If you had asked me if I wanted to take that time off, I would have said no. But I took an extra week off after the Christmas break and it was wonderful. I needed it, but I was so into the groove of working that I didn't realize how much I needed it until I was in the midst of it.
    This is where an astute supervisor comes in handy. Many years ago, our department noticed (or got feedback to that effect), that I was becoming a bit short-tempered in dealing with others. He checked when was the last time that I took time off, noticed it had been quite awhile and told me to take a week off. And it was a good call, I needed it.

    The opposite end of that spectrum, are employers who use and abuse their employees and try and squeeze last drop of blood they can from them, so to speak. Bullying people into overtime, needlessly bothering them at home about work issues, etc. I am very thankful that I have never had to deal with much of that. The one place that did try to guilt me into certain things, I let them know in no uncertain terms, that I wasn't going to put up with that, so they backed off. It's alarming how many places still try and treat their employees like that.

    neil

  16. #4716
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    This kind of stuff really makes me angry. Your company loses NOTHING by letting you carry those 5 days. It's just cruel. Especially considering all that's going on right now.
    That is not completely correct. Financially, company owns the money for unused vacation and that appears as Account payable (short term debt) in the general ledger. That impacts their financial performance e.g profit margin and potentially a market value. On other hand who cares!


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  17. #4717
    I haven't had a paid vacation since 2008.
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  18. #4718
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    Quote Originally Posted by boilk View Post
    This is where an astute supervisor comes in handy. Many years ago, our department noticed (or got feedback to that effect), that I was becoming a bit short-tempered in dealing with others. He checked when was the last time that I took time off, noticed it had been quite awhile and told me to take a week off. And it was a good call, I needed it.

    The opposite end of that spectrum, are employers who use and abuse their employees and try and squeeze last drop of blood they can from them, so to speak. Bullying people into overtime, needlessly bothering them at home about work issues, etc. I am very thankful that I have never had to deal with much of that. The one place that did try to guilt me into certain things, I let them know in no uncertain terms, that I wasn't going to put up with that, so they backed off. It's alarming how many places still try and treat their employees like that.

    neil
    On the other end....I was a cubicle worker for 3 years in my career. Our business ran 24/7/365. My supervisor would work the single guys every holiday and the married guys got to be home. I transferred out of that department to get away from that 50's mindset. I was also a Union member.....the office would Fudge our Comp. time to hide how overworked we were. When I was told to take my comp time (at one point - 30 Days!)....it was in 1 day increments and NEVER on a Monday or Friday. It was just the way those 50's mind-set managers worked.
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  19. #4719
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    I haven't had a paid vacation since 2008.
    Your boss is a monster.

  20. #4720
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    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    Your boss is a monster.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  21. #4721
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    Looks like the J & J Vaccine will also be made here in the Southwest Michigan area: https://wwmt.com/news/local/johnson-...ary+25%2c+2021

  22. #4722
    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    I haven't had a paid vacation since 2008.
    I've never had a paid vacation, unless you consider unemployment a vacation.
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  23. #4723
    All Things Must Pass spellbound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow
    I've never had a paid vacation, unless you consider unemployment a vacation.
    It's a vacation from healthcare, and access thereto.

  24. #4724
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    I've never had a paid vacation, unless you consider unemployment a vacation.
    I did have a paid vacation. When I lived in Australia they used to have a salary booster for vacation time. Something in the order 25% on the top of your normal pay. Bloody socialists [emoji3]!


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  25. #4725
    Member ForeverAutumn's Avatar
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    The AstraZeneca vaccine has been approved in Canada.

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