COVID-19 Coronavirus Information and Discussion

[Baribrotzer]

[QUOTE=Garyhead;977542

Back a bit to Covid 19 effects......anyone notice the absence of the homeless / homeless camps in their parts of the world? [/QUOTE] I see plenty of them in Portland, OR, same as always.

[Baribrotzer]

Back a bit to Covid 19 effects......anyone notice the absence of the homeless / homeless camps in their parts of the world?

I see plenty of them in Portland, OR, same as always.

[Facelift]

Clearwater Beach, Florida live webcam at 11:55am Sunday May 17..Social distancing in place and Sunday's are usually a pretty popular day.
Since reopening the Sheriff of Pineallas County who was one of the original officials saying the beaches should be closed in the early days, released comments to the media praising the behavior of the residents of Pinellas County after the beaches reopened on the 11th.

I think the local media, print and tv have done a great job on reporting when there is positive things to report about the reopening.
The national media on the other hand goes out of their way to find negativity and keeps anything positive that's happening on the back burner. I'm not calling them fake news, but I do believe their feeling of self righteousness and caretakers of all that is good and true is nothing but a bunch of horse manure. I really do think they think most of the public is so stupid they have to be led to the light by their reporting so we get it right.

I remember back in the days when tv anchors were journalists first, people like Walter Cronkite, Huntley/Brinkley or Peter Jennings. When they reported the news, you never got a sense of what their politics were, they simply reported the news and let people make up their own mind. Now we get cookie cutter reporters trained in cookie cutter universities who get jobs at stations with cookie cutter corporate managers, and with 24hr cable news, the competition is greater than ever before, and I do think stories are often beefed up to drive ratings for advertising revenue.

It gets harder and harder to find unbiased reporting, the politics of news whether it's from the right or the left has reached a level where you don't know what to believe anymore.
All I can do is look around and what's happening in my state, my neighborhood, my grocery store, by community businesses, my parks and beaches and compare it to what is being reported, and all I can say the story is different than what's on the nI'd bational news.

https://www.skylinewebcams.com/en/we...ter-beach.html

I'd be careful with all of that. There is nothing political about a pandemic, and there is nothing political about the recommendations of the CDC and lifelong government officials with expert disease credentials. What networks reported the findings of these people and generally treated them as one might treat the words of experts to a novel situation? What network/s downplayed the opinions and credentials of experts in this field when they conflicted with the president's policy?

If you take something that *isn't* inherently political, but politicize it by intentionally spreading misinformation, you don't then get to call the side that calls you out on it as as biased politics. In the simplest terms, if one was to find a political advantage to claiming that 2+2 is 5, those insisting that 2+2 actually is 4 can't be labeled as political adversaries for simply advocating the truth - even if they were to generally disagree politically with the person insisting that 2+2 is 5. They might take delight in pointing out that 2+2 is 4, but that doesn't change its inherent truth.

[Interstellar]

I only half agree. From my observations, I think much conservative mainstream or quasi-mainstream media is unabashedly conservative (originating as a need for "counter culture", but later pure pandering). Whereas liberal mainstream media is accidentally liberal.

Don't get me wrong, this is not to say there isn't mainstream media that panders to the left. But from how I see it the "liberal" bias often gets confused with a "metropolitan" bias. Think about it. The largest newspapers are from the largest cities. The largest TV networks have roots in Hollywood. Most of the headquarters are in places like NYC. Most of the journalists have a college educated background. Many of them grew up and/or moved to these metropolitan areas for work.

While journalists are supposed to be objective, their experiences will naturally add bias (even in the form of an editorial). But these experiences will be driven by and reaffirmed by the urban culture around them. They will likely be in more diverse environments, more in touch with global affairs, more in touch with urban lifestyles, and more exposed to different religions and cultures. They also tend to be more progressive/forward aiming. And many of them may feel (rightly or wrongly) more enlightened. So they will craft (for example) pro gay marriage articles, but the language used will make anyone who is not yet on board seem like a bad person, even though the subject was taboo a few years before. They become "the elites" in a sense, controlling the narrative.

However, in the process, many of these same people lose touch with what life is like in the rest of the USA. This metropolitan point of view generally ignores the small town or rural point of view and culture when reporting and/or shaping stories. But with all that says, that is NOT necessarily a purposeful *political* bias, from my perspective.

But I think there are a few things worth repeating. First and foremost, mainstream media is about capturing and maintaining your attention. It's about ad dollars. It's about clickbait. And virtually all mainstream media outlets - and many of the emerging ones - have ties to entertainment empires. This pandemic is like a Godsend for their pocketbooks.

THAT SAID, "counter media", for the most part, is NOT the answer. From my perspective, those looking to avoid mainstream news for its "bias" have put their trust largely into counter media that makes bank off the narrative that the mainstream can't be trusted. Many of those outlets do not have an infrastructure that help mitigate errors nor accountability. In fact, counter media usually attacks fact checking sites as politically compromised (how convenient).

And beyond the counter media is social media, under the guise of trying to act like ham radio patriots during WWII, we award any loud mouth with an opinion and a webcam to with millions of views, thereby legitimizing the method. These guys are going to tell you "the XXXX things XXXX doesn't want you to know. WAKE UP SHEEPLE!" But they appeal to an audience looking to escape the mainstream, with the mistake (imo) of trusting 1 person or a few to tell them "the truth".

I'll stop here, and just quote myself to finish out.

A great way to describe this global phenomenon. Some of it is specifically relevant to the USA, but most of it applies to many other countries these days AFAIK.

[Zeuhlmate]

A big question for me is that the strategy of most governments is based on the coming of a vaccine and general immunity. But there is actually no garanty this will ever happen.
It has not been possible to produce a vaccine against HIV, Syphilis or Borrelia (Lymes diesease). These deseases are probably very different from corona (both vira and bacteria), and not directly comparable, but...

There are several examples of people being infected by others who had no symptoms and was tested negative (not tested for antibodies though). Latest (yesterday) 21 people on a hospital in Denmark. Staff was tested, visitors were tested, still...

A friends wife had corona, was declared well and ready to go to work after 3 weeks of no symptoms. She insisted on another test, and was tested positive again ! her husband (my friend) their 2 kids (teenagers) were never tested positive.

I have no knowlegde of virology to be qualified to debate the subject with any weight, but I think (at this time) its a bit overlooked by the media.

[Dana5140]

The US has shifted to a harm reduction strategy and has thrown in the towel on traditional epidemiological approaches to managing infectious diseases- testing and contact tracing. Instead, it is allowing a certain number of deaths to occur as time goes on, in order to shift burden onto states. Of course, the real problem is that no ne knows who will die, and it is all fine until it hits close to home.

The mainstream press is comprised of good and bad. I can often see real problems in what stories the NYT and the WaPo choose to focus on and how they craft those stories. Both are often accused of being liberal, but a closer examination reveals the NYT is really more on the side of conservatism- this is not about, say, allowing David Farenthold to write a story- he is liberal- but about what stories are chosen and how they are put together. For example, the NYT has no story on page 1 about Eric Trump's stupid claim that the democrats want Covid in order to hurt his dad's election chances, while the the WaPo writes one that said that Don Trump "joked" about BIden being a pedophile. Which did not acknowledge why Trump might have said such an idiotic thing- that it became viral and spread, and then Trump could disavow it by claiming it was a joke- but damage done, fed the beast of right-wing virality. The left-right divide over science and expertise is literally killing people. It is not really possible to remain voiceless as this happens.

ETA: See this lead from a story WaPo just posted: "Coronavirus death toll is possible casualty of growing rift between Trump and CDC. President Trump has been known to bend the facts, or outright misrepresent them, during his three-and-a-half years in the White House." He has been known to? Are you kidding? How can you take sthis serious with such an inane comment, given the reality of the amount of lies coming out of the White House? Why did they not simply say, the president has been known to lie?

Baribrotzer- you are in Portland? That is where one of my step-kids and her family lives. They have been at home for a long time now, and with 3 kids (two teens and one pre-teen) it has been rough. My step-son is the rabbi at Congregation Chavurah Shalom over on 18th street, just a few blocks from the Inn at Northrup Station.

[ronmac]

^^ The NY Times is anything but a bastion of liberalism. Just look how they treat a very popular progressive candidate who shall remain nameless. They have a very poor record WRT left-leaning reporting.

[Baribrotzer]

Baribrotzer- you are in Portland? That is where one of my step-kids and her family lives. They have been at home for a long time now, and with 3 kids (two teens and one pre-teen) it has been rough. My step-son is the rabbi at Congregation Chavurah Shalom over on 18th street, just a few blocks from the Inn at Northrup Station.

I'm sure I've been past it - I used to take urban group hikes in that neighborhood - but not in. (I'm not Jewish, and probably wouldn't be very observant if I were.)

[Baribrotzer]

If you take something that *isn't* inherently political, but politicize it by intentionally spreading misinformation, you don't then get to call the side that calls you out on it as as biased politics. In the simplest terms, if one was to find a political advantage to claiming that 2+2 is 5, those insisting that 2+2 actually is 4 can't be labeled as political adversaries for simply advocating the truth - even if they were to generally disagree politically with the person insisting that 2+2 is 5. They might take delight in pointing out that 2+2 is 4, but that doesn't change its inherent truth.

No one should do that, no one should be able to get away with it, but many do. In fact, they get away with it to great success. The plain reality of it is that truth has lost much of its mooring to observable fact, and become Truth™. It is now more a synonym for fervent belief, a belief that triggers committed and even violent action - either at the polls or in the streets. And while that's always been the case, it seems particularly bad right now.

(Note: I use Truth™, with the capital T and ™, to indicate that specific sense of the word)

[ronmac]

No one should do that, no one should be able to get away with it, but many do. In fact, they get away with it to great success. The plain reality of it is that Truth™ has lost much of its mooring to observable fact, and become more a synonym for fervent belief, triggering committed and even violent action - either at the polls or in the streets. Really, that's always been the case, but it seems particularly bad right now.

(Note: I use Truth™, with the capital T and ™, to indicate that specific sense of the word)

The result of a decades-long campaign of disinformation, street-smart charlatans, complicit (wittingly or unwittingly) media channels and the undermining of our educational institutions.

[Buddhabreath]

The result of a decades-long campaign of disinformation, street-smart charlatans, complicit (wittingly or unwittingly) media channels and the undermining of our educational institutions.

True, but other than that things are going swimmingly well!

[Dana5140]

Ah, misunderstood your comment on Portland homeless, which indeed is a problem.

[progmatist]

Back a bit to Covid 19 effects......anyone notice the absence of the homeless / homeless camps in their parts of the world? All the usual spots in my area are vacant....no curbside panhandling either. But, there is an increase of vehicles accumulating in the Walmart parking lots.....before the pandemic, the local police were pretty good at keeping those folks "moving along". There are also folks "just hanging out around their cars" in the parking lots....Maybe the "couch surfers" and studio apartment dwellers looking for a change of scenery?

Last summer, many piles of homeless people's belongings were left abandoned around town. I can't imagine scores of homeless voluntarily leaving behind all their worldly possessions. That led me to believe there was something to the rumors homeless people were being disappeared. I can't imagine what's going to happen this summer with Covid.

[moecurlythanu]

Last summer, many piles of homeless people's belongings were left abandoned around town. I can't imagine scores of homeless voluntarily leaving behind all their worldly possessions. That led me to believe there was something to the rumors homeless people were being disappeared. I can't imagine what's going to happen this summer with Covid.

It was the Rapture. The meek decided to evacuate the Earth.

[ronmac]

The problem with discussing this, and almost any important issue, is that this is an era that's all about whether you're a team player and you get with the program; or you aren't a team player, and you don't get with the program. So if you're discussing COVID-19, you either have to trust the "experts", or get with the program. You can't do both - both follow the experts, and be a team player.. Indeed, the "experts" face the same choice: Follow the "rules", "ethics", and "traditions" of their profession, or get with the program. Most of them seem to do the former - to continue uttering what they conceive of as "the truth" rather than getting with the program, and to generally lose their jobs for not being team players.

Hmm, seems to me that trusting the experts IS getting with the program.

[rdclark]

Hmm, seems to me that trusting the experts IS getting with the program.

Trusting experts is so 20th Century. Here in Murica, experts are public enemies. The Program is whatever lines the pockets of the rich. This is not complicated, and nobody is trying to hide it.

[ronmac]

Trusting experts is so 20th Century. Here in Murica, experts are public enemies. The Program is whatever lines the pockets of the rich. This is not complicated, and nobody is trying to hide it.

Yeah, I get that. I try to look at it as what side of history I'm on. So far, I have a pretty good track record. So I'll stick with my instincts.

[Top Cat]

Several weeks ago I watched a video interview with a scientist who has been with NIH for years and is among those searching for a vaccine. She related they had completed a successful vaccine for the SARS virus, but by the time it was ready, SARS was no longer the threat it was and they didn't use it.
She also said the Covid19 has similar characteristics(not all) to the SARS virus, and because of that a vaccine could come quicker because they can use some of the data from the SARS research to use in developing a vaccine for Covid19.

It's interesting a study in 2005 by the National Center for Biotechnology Information, a branch of NIH, showed significant success in the use of Chloroquine for SARS.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16115318/
Yes, there are dangerous side effects for those with heart based conditions, but for normal healthy people there doesn't seem to be harmful side effects.
I looked up side effects from Drugs.com :Hydroxychloroquine side effects

Get emergency medical help if you have signs of an allergic reaction to hydroxychloroquine: (hives, difficult breathing, swelling in your face or throat) or a severe skin reaction (fever, sore throat, burning eyes, skin pain, red or purple skin rash with blistering and peeling).

Seek medical treatment if you have a serious drug reaction that can affect many parts of your body. Symptoms may include: skin rash, fever, swollen glands, muscle aches, severe weakness, unusual bruising, or yellowing of your skin or eyes.

Call your doctor at once if you have:

fast or pounding heartbeats, fluttering in your chest, shortness of breath, and sudden dizziness (like you might pass out);

a seizure;

yellowing of your eyes;

ringing in your ears, trouble hearing;

unusual mood changes;

severe muscle weakness, loss of coordination, underactive reflexes;

low blood cell counts - fever, chills, tiredness, sore throat, mouth sores, easy bruising, unusual bleeding, pale skin, cold hands and feet, feeling light-headed or short of breath; or

low blood sugar - headache, hunger, sweating, irritability, dizziness, fast heart rate, and feeling anxious or shaky.
I think many of those tv drug commercials from legalized Corporate Drug Pushers have scarier and worst potential side effects listed than this.
My comment)

Drugs.com
Hydroxychloroquine has not been approved to treat coronavirus or COVID-19. However, the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has authorized emergency use of hydroxychloroquine in adults and adolescents weighing at least 110 pounds (50 kilograms) who are hospitalized with COVID-19.

Hydroxychloroquine is being used to try and stop coronavirus from spreading inside your body. It is not yet known if hydroxychloroquine is a safe and effective treatment for COVID-19, and this use is still experimental.

.
I believe, while clincial studies are still inconclusive, if there is a chance of saving a patient's life, Hydorxychloroquine should be an option.

I think we need more information before officially calling this the boogeyman or crackpot science. But time is the enemy against this virus, and we don't have time to wait for long term studies or a vaccine a year or two away. If lives can be saved, and for most people the risks are minimal, I think it's an option that should be explored.
But I don't believe we should take it as a preventative because it's silly to take a drug if it's not needed, and could be harmful(for those at risk).
All I say is we should be open, and just because Trump is advocating it, we don't need to minimize it.

A piece in Time magazine on the benefits and negatives of using the drug. Doctors at John Hopkins Hospital are using Hydroxychloroquine to treat patients for Covid19.(This piece was written in March of 2020).
https://time.com/5808894/hydroxychlo...e-coronavirus/

[Camelogue]

This medication is also used to treat certain auto-immune diseases (lupus, rheumatoid arthritis). It belongs to a class of medications known as disease-modifying antirheumatic drugs (DMARDs). It can reduce skin problems in lupus and prevent swelling/pain in arthritis.

Besides malaria.

I don't see anything for it being a panacea or inhibitor of a virus?

So if you do not have any of these problems, why would you take it?

[Top Cat]

This medication is also used to treat certain auto-immune diseases (lupus, rheumatoid arthritis). It belongs to a class of medications known as disease-modifying antirheumatic drugs (DMARDs). It can reduce skin problems in lupus and prevent swelling/pain in arthritis.

Besides malaria.

I don't see anything for it being a panacea or inhibitor of a virus?

So if you do not have any of these problems, why would you take it?

I'm sorry, I forgot to include the link from NIH and the use of the drug against SARS virus and the positive effects it had in reducing the effects and progress of the virus.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16115318/

Also an exerpt from the Time article:“We consider the use of hydroxychloroquine on a case-by-case basis for hospitalized patients who are at risk of disease progression,” says Dr. Daniel Kuritzkes, chief of the division of infectious diseases at Brigham and Women’s Hospital and professor at Harvard Medical School.

It’s not ideal, but as physicians get desperate watching patients decline with respiratory failure, such off label use of hydroxychloroquine in particular may become more common. Off label use means drugs, like hydroxychloroquine, that are already approved for one use can be prescribed for another use, as long as the doctor is comfortable with the unknown risks and side effects. “If someone is sick in the ICU you try everything possible you can for that person,” says Dr. David Boulware, a University of Minnesota professor of medicine. Especially as hospitals start getting concerned about dwindling supplies of equipment such as ventilators, anything that can prevent patients declining from mild to severe disease is worth a try.

“We are reserving it for those who might get the most benefit from the treatment because they may be at the highest risk of severe COVID-19 disease when they enter the hospital,” says Sullivan. If the drug can prevent severe disease, then that may spare the hospital and the health care system from the most expensive and invasive types of care such as days spent in the ICU with expensive mechanical breathing support.

I agree with you, taking it if you're not sick or experiencing symptoms seems silly.

[progmatist]

I remember when Anthrax was being mailed right after 9/11. Many people wanted to take Cipro prophylactically, oblivious to the fact antibiotics don't prevent anything. And they're building a tolerance to Cipro, making it ineffective should they actually need it.

[Dana5140]

Additional research is adding to the information we now have on the risks of using hydroxychloroquine. There is little doubt now that it increases risk of death for those who are obese or diabetic.

There are now over 17000 papers on Covid in the literature.

It should not be provided willy-nilly to people who want it in the belief it confers some sort of protection. As far as I am concerned, Trump's doctor should be at risk of losing his license over this, since there is no known reason to offer this drug, when there are known side effects and the president suffers from some of the risk factors. This is not a political statement. Do not give drugs to those who do not need them. Fundamental medicine.

Several hospitals are using it for those critically ill. One trial is running at Henry Ford Hospital in Detroit; there are a few more around the country. Trials take time and need participants. Problem is, in every case, the participants are the sickest of the sick; this creates what is known as a spectrum bias, where the full gamut of disease presentation is not included in the study. Thus, we will find out how it works for those extremely ill, not for those who have mild to moderate Covid.

[Zeuhlmate]

corona-bob-dylan.jpg

[ronmac]

The regret is that a worldwide pandemic should not be a political issue. Yet our politicians have turned it into one, haven't they?

That is the sad state of our affairs, my friends.

[Poisoned Youth]

The regret is that a worldwide pandemic should not be a political issue. Yet our politicians have turned it into one, haven't they? That is the sad state of our affairs, my friends.

It's a shame for sure. I am most distressed at how Americans who rallied together after 9/11 are so bitterly divided now, where everything becomes political.

I have given some thought about what you said earlier about certain items are not inherently political, but they become political. Like in the case of masks. It's so petty.

Anyway, I'm cleaning up the thread a bit.