COVID-19 Coronavirus Information and Discussion

[Poisoned Youth]

Klonk's point: Conservatives are not the evil fuckers they've been portrayed as throughout this thread, running around spitting in stranger's faces, refusing to wear masks, insisting the virus is a fantasy but killing every Asian they come across. Me: I agree. You: Look at that asshat Barry attacking Klonk, disgusting! I'll step out now as I've had my say, the rest of the Conservatives left can continue to read about what horrible people they are and respond in kind or forever hold their peace, up to them.

Yeah, no axe to grind here.

You are absolutely correct that it's unfair to label any group of people with broad brush strokes. And based on the observations from others in this thread, the real world and the online world can provide two different perceptions of reality.

I agree with you and others that media and social media amplify extremes. I call it the "shark attack" syndrome. If a shark attack occurs anywhere around the U.S. you might hear about it. But if there happen to be 2 or 3 shark attacks within a few weeks, it becomes national news. Amplify it more and people won't dip their feet in the ocean or cancel their vacation. Recently there has been a lot of talk about NFTs, but the discussion is mostly around the absurd aspects of it.

So if someone gets in a fight because they refused to wear a mask, that incident will likely get amplified or even nationalized. And when you see multiple stories like this, it gives the impression that this is rampant, when it's not necessarily so.

That said, the internet/social media does bring out the "loud" voices. Those voices can be so overwhelming and ubiquitous that it can give the impression that all of the stereotypes about someone's politics/religion/race/culture etc. are valid ones. Go to just about any popular social media site or current events site with a comments section and you will see rampant anger, hatred, virtue signaling, and more. It's so depressing to see. One notable example for me was reading the comments section on a sponsored ad from Johnson & Johnson about vaccines. The vast majority of comments were negative, angry, and laden with misinformation and conspiracy theories.

But consider where a lot of this comes from. In a most current example, there was a senate hearing on COVID response yesterday and Rand Paul used it to accuse Dr. Fauci of wearing masks "for show" even though he's been vaccinated. Even if you disagree with Fauci, it's the language and tone used during this exchange that is the larger problem. There are countless other examples like this that sow doubt in masks, vaccines, the response, and more.

The point is that this "resistance" mindset has been propagated by conservative leadership for over a year. And Rand Paul is not an anomaly in the party. It's pretty much the party line and that of the former President. And because of the conservative ecosystem, this is amplified down the chain - from the President, Congress, state legislators, conservative media, social media, YouTubers, and more. And as the leadership is positively reinforced by their electorate, the cycle continues.

This cyclical approach was similar during the election, which culminated in the storming of the Capitol, and now back up to the legislatures as conservatives across the states work to pass legislation in the name of voter fraud.

So while the loud voices can tend to steal the megaphone and media can amplify the extreme, you have to ask yourself about the conservative "brand" and its responsibility in all of this. Conservative leadership and media have greatly exacerbated the problems and perceptions of the Republican party by their words and actions. If you want to protect the conservative brand as you see it and you feel it doesn't reflect you and others, then your BEEF is with those who identify as conservative who are putting a stain on it. Directing your ire towards angry liberals seems misplaced.

[Poisoned Youth]

I said that I was checking out Sean and I meant it

You don't have to check out. Just dial it back.

yet the folks who swing from the left here just can't help themselves, they keep swinging at the right.

So you want to convince others not to paint with a broad brush, but then do the same.

Yes, there are a handful of people in this thread that are outspoken and get out of hand. I have removed countless posts over the course of the thread and have banned those who take it too far. If you have a problem with something they say, hit the freaking moderate button. I am not going to spend my life babysitting this thread every day.

And if you can't accept that, nobody puts a gun to your head and makes you open the thread.

Yeah, when I'm reading that people who think like me are horrible human beings it gets my hackles up as it would anyone with a functioning mind.

But your point is really to say that the people who are "anti-mask", "anti-science", "anti-Asian" whatever do NOT think like you. Shouldn't the fact that many of these people who believe this way that tend to identify as conservatives "get your hackles up"?

[BarryLI]

Yeah, no axe to grind here.

You are absolutely correct that it's unfair to label any group of people with broad brush strokes. And based on the observations from others in this thread, the real world and the online world can provide two different perceptions of reality.

I agree with you and others that media and social media amplify extremes. I call it the "shark attack" syndrome. If a shark attack occurs anywhere around the U.S. you might hear about it. But if there happen to be 2 or 3 shark attacks within a few weeks, it becomes national news. Amplify it more and people won't dip their feet in the ocean or cancel their vacation. Recently there has been a lot of talk about NFTs, but the discussion is mostly around the absurd aspects of it.

So if someone gets in a fight because they refused to wear a mask, that incident will likely get amplified or even nationalized. And when you see multiple stories like this, it gives the impression that this is rampant, when it's not necessarily so.

That said, the internet/social media does bring out the "loud" voices. Those voices can be so overwhelming and ubiquitous that it can give the impression that all of the stereotypes about someone's politics/religion/race/culture etc. are valid ones. Go to just about any popular social media site or current events site with a comments section and you will see rampant anger, hatred, virtue signaling, and more. It's so depressing to see. One notable example for me was reading the comments section on a sponsored ad from Johnson & Johnson about vaccines. The vast majority of comments were negative, angry, and laden with misinformation and conspiracy theories.

But consider where a lot of this comes from. In a most current example, there was a senate hearing on COVID response yesterday and Rand Paul used it to accuse Dr. Fauci of wearing masks "for show" even though he's been vaccinated. Even if you disagree with Fauci, it's the language and tone used during this exchange that is the larger problem. There are countless other examples like this that sow doubt in masks, vaccines, the response, and more.

The point is that this "resistance" mindset has been propagated by conservative leadership for over a year. And Rand Paul is not an anomaly in the party. It's pretty much the party line and that of the former President. And because of the conservative ecosystem, this is amplified down the chain - from the President, Congress, state legislators, conservative media, social media, YouTubers, and more. And as the leadership is positively reinforced by their electorate, the cycle continues.

This cyclical approach was similar during the election, which culminated in the storming of the Capitol, and now back up to the legislatures as conservatives across the states work to pass legislation in the name of voter fraud.

So while the loud voices can tend to steal the megaphone and media can amplify the extreme, you have to ask yourself about the conservative "brand" and its responsibility in all of this. Conservative leadership and media have greatly exacerbated the problems and perceptions of the Republican party by their words and actions. If you want to protect the conservative brand as you see it and you feel it doesn't reflect you and others, then your BEEF is with those who identify as conservative who are putting a stain on it. Directing your ire towards angry liberals seems misplaced.

While I appreciate your well thought out response it boils down to "my side is right", and we all do think that, don't we? As to the Fauci-Paul exchange my understanding (yeah, what do I know?) is that even if vaccinated you can get Covid although the viral load would not be enough to kill or hospitalize you but you could pass it on to someone not vaccinated so I'm not quite understanding Paul's position at all unless he was referring to a situation where you'd be in a place where everyone was also vaccinated.

[Poisoned Youth]

While I appreciate your well thought out response it boils down to "my side is right", and we all do think that, don't we?

My objective was not to take a side, but to add perspective and perhaps explain why people think the way they do.

As to the Fauci-Paul exchange my understanding (yeah, what do I know?) is that even if vaccinated you can get Covid although the viral load would not be enough to kill or hospitalize you but you could pass it on to someone not vaccinated

That is my general understanding as well with the added sentiment that we don't know enough about the variants to know how well we are protecting ourselves and others if we don't continue to practice and be mindful of mitigation efforts.

[BarryLI]

You don't have to check out. Just dial it back.



So you want to convince others not to paint with a broad brush, but then do the same.

Yes, there are a handful of people in this thread that are outspoken and get out of hand. I have removed countless posts over the course of the thread and have banned those who take it too far. If you have a problem with something they say, hit the freaking moderate button. I am not going to spend my life babysitting this thread every day.

And if you can't accept that, nobody puts a gun to your head and makes you open the thread.




But your point is really to say that the people who are "anti-mask", "anti-science", "anti-Asian" whatever do NOT think like you. Shouldn't the fact that many of these people who believe this way that tend to identify as conservatives "get your hackles up"?

Fair enough.

[ronmac]

Granted, I've participated to some degree, but the disparaging comments here are not about conservatives, of which there are many smart and principled ones. They are about many members of a certain party (especially, the so-called leaders and media) that have dangerously spread misinformation that has costed thousands of lives and put each of us in peril, while claiming the conservative mantel that they don't happen to earn in practice.

That being said, it's clear that some of us live in a nuanced world (shaded of gray) and can distinguish between the two, while others don't (everything is black and white - "you're calling us all idiots"). The world is not black and white.

I'm still trying to get my head around what being vaccinated will mean. Museums? Sure. Sitting by ourselves in a booth in a restaurant. I guess. Normal shopping, rest stops on the highway (so we can travel), etc. Within reason, while being careful, OK.

But a packed theater full of yelling drunks? A club? Even a theater for a play or musical, or a small theater for an acoustic act or chamber concert? I don't know. Will I ever feel safe in a crowd again?

I can't wait to get back to "normal" life, especially going to concerts and sporting events. Once I am fully vaccinated I think I will feel comfortable in crowds again. I am actually more worried about how my recently replaced knees will handle concerts / sporting events than COVID once I am fully vaccinated.

Just keep in mind that a vaccine is not a cure. It simply mitigates the effects. You can still carry it and pass it along to others. So, you'll still need to wear a mask and practice social distancing for the sake of others. And, you can do your part to encourage others to get vaccinated and do the same.

[chalkpie]

I'm still trying to get my head around what being vaccinated will mean. Museums? Sure. Sitting by ourselves in a booth in a restaurant. I guess. Normal shopping, rest stops on the highway (so we can travel), etc. Within reason, while being careful, OK.

But a packed theater full of yelling drunks? A club? Even a theater for a play or musical, or a small theater for an acoustic act or chamber concert? I don't know. Will I ever feel safe in a crowd again?

I have been wondering the same thing. Where/when is the end game? How long will we be wearing masks? When can pals come over again for tunes and libations (if we are all vaccinated)? Questions, questions, questions, flooding into the mind of the concerned young person today. Ah, but it's a great time to be alive ladies and gentlemen....

[Klonk]

Let's be honest here...while Barry certainly took my comment to hot lava levels , it aint easy to chime in here and disrupt all the high 5's with the 'other' point of view while having to immediately duck beer cans, coasters and chicken wing bones

[ronmac]

I have been wondering the same thing. Where/when is the end game? How long will we be wearing masks? When can pals come over again for tunes and libations (if we are all vaccinated)? Questions, questions, questions, flooding into the mind of the concerned young person today. Ah, but it's a great time to be alive ladies and gentlemen....

Nobody has the answers yet. It all depends on how much people are smart about this (which is not encouraging) and more data they collect.

And, quite frankly, it's refreshing to hear the experts say they don't have all the answers while promoting caution.

We still have a very long way to go.

[adap2it]

I said that I was checking out Sean and I meant it but I feel a response to your "axe" comment is necessary. We've just concluded four years of unseen before hostility between the left and the right, this is supposed to be a thread about a global pandemic, a virus that doesn't share an ideological POV yet the folks who swing from the left here just can't help themselves, they keep swinging at the right. There is some good discussion going on, that's how the thread has been able to sustain itself for as long as it has but we are dealing with a disease that KILLS people, disproportionately from our generation and certain posters can't help but keep blaming other posters here for the deaths that keep piling up worldwide. You can count pages and pages of Trump slams (hardly treading new ground here), calling Conservatives idiots, saying they refuse to wear masks, don't care about their fellow man, refuse to get the shots, and on and on and on, well excuse me if that pisses me off, I wear a mask, I've been lucky enough to get my shots (couldn't get them fast enough for my liking), I'm not cavalier about other people's lives, I don't hate Asians or anyone else for that matter (I'd be shocked if anyone involved in this discussion feels that way about anyone quite frankly with an exception given for the other political side because nowadays you can be offended by hate but you get a pass if you hate the "right" people), you can choose your own examples in the pages that have been written and will continue to be written. Axe? Yeah, when I'm reading that people who think like me are horrible human beings it gets my hackles up as it would anyone with a functioning mind. Peace out.

Well said Mr Barry!

[Scott Bails]

And, quite frankly, it's refreshing to hear the experts say they don't have all the answers while promoting caution.

Indeed. There's nothing wrong with saying "I don't know." I trust that more than "only I have the answers."

[Progmatic]

Whoooohoooo tonight is the night! First vaccination, Pfizer. Freedom here we come!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[progmatist]

Klonk's point: Conservatives are not the evil fuckers they've been portrayed as throughout this thread, running around spitting in stranger's faces, refusing to wear masks, insisting the virus is a fantasy but killing every Asian they come across. Me: I agree. You: Look at that asshat Barry attacking Klonk, disgusting! I'll step out now as I've had my say, the rest of the Conservatives left can continue to read about what horrible people they are and respond in kind or forever hold their peace, up to them.

It should be pointed out there's a major difference between a true conservative and a Trumpian.

[Garyhead]

A random thought.......remember 14 MONTHS ago we used to constantly Bitch about folks holding up cell phones at concerts?

[mozo-pg]

It should be pointed out there's a major difference between a true conservative and a Trumpian.

This is extremely important statement and I personally agree with it.

[Poisoned Youth]

I see I wasted my energy.

[Vic2012]

A random thought.......remember 14 MONTHS ago we used to constantly Bitch about folks holding up cell phones at concerts?

Too true. Yep.

[adap2it]

I see I wasted my energy.

Some people are more addicted to politics than they are music, this is still PE eh?

[Vic2012]

I see I wasted my energy.

No, you handled that exchange pretty well. Well moderated.

[BarryLI]

No, you handled that exchange pretty well. Well moderated.

I agree, and I'm the transgressor.

[Vic2012]

I agree, and I'm the transgressor.

I'm apolitical. No party affiliation for me. I'm just a guy. If I get into some of these arguments I'd tell some people to b*** me. Sean you are a a fair moderator.

[moecurlythanu]

I see I wasted my energy.

Fwiw Sean, I thought your post above was the most well reasoned, articulate and insightful post you've ever put up on this site. And that's saying something.

[mozo-pg]

Fwiw Sean, I thought your post above was the most well reasoned, articulate and insightful post you've ever put up on this site. And that's saying something.

Can you leave an apple on Sean's chair?

[moecurlythanu]

Can you leave an apple on Sean's chair?

No, he might sit on it.

[Jerjo]

At this point, I think some owe Cozy a bottle of single malt instead of an apple.