COVID-19 Coronavirus Information and Discussion

[ronmac]

The U.S. government purchased vaccines from Pfizer, Moderna and J & J. I can’t speak for the other companies, but I know that Pfizer rolled the dice throwing millions and millions of dollars into developing the vaccine, doing clinical trials, updating manufacturing facilities, updating logistics facilities, hiring people to do the manufacturing, all on the chance that the vaccine might work. There were no guarantees, and if it didn’t work all that money would have been down the drain. I know Pharma is always framed as the bad guys, but I still say that this vaccine development will go down in history and still be talked about 100 years from now. The MNRA technology will be a game changer. Do Pharma companies have the right to make their money back and eventually make a profit? I say yes because that is the way business works and the way things like these innovations happen in a capitalist society that we have. The technology used to make the vaccine is very expensive. The manufacturing process from bulk API to formulating the product, to aseptic filling, to inspection, to packaging, to freeze is all very expensive. The logistical aspects of getting the drugs delivered around the country (and the world) is also very expensive. This isn’t like making a widget or even a pill. This is making a unique injectable drug that can safely be injected directly into the human body.

Anyway, that is part of the reason for the way things are with the vaccine.

They don't have the right to gouge people, though. There's no logical explanation (aside from greed) over the difference the US pays for the same meds that are a tiny fraction of the price in other countries.

[mozo-pg]

They don't have the right to gouge people, though. There's no logical explanation (aside from greed) over the difference the US pays for the same meds that are a tiny fraction of the price in other countries.

It's true of Canada but we also have Universal Health Care available to the poor, middle class, and wealthy. This has been in place since the second world war.

[SteveSly]

They don't have the right to gouge people, though. There's no logical explanation (aside from greed) over the difference the US pays for the same meds that are a tiny fraction of the price in other countries.

My comments were specifically about the vaccines, and not drug pricing in general which is a separate issue IMO.

[NogbadTheBad]

Do Pharma companies have the right to make their money back and eventually make a profit? I say yes because that is the way business works and the way things like these innovations happen in a capitalist society that we have.

Because Capitalism isn't a very good argument, how about because lobbying, monopolization, government collusion? Pharma should be for profit, just not for obscene profits at the expense (increased risk of death) of the general population. The rest of the developed world seems to have a plan that works.

[adap2it]

It's true of Canada but we also have Universal Health Care available to the poor, middle class, and wealthy. This has been in place since the second world war.

I came to Canada in 1966 and in Ontario there was no universal health care. A visit to the Dr cost $5. Most people at that time had coverage thru work.

[mozo-pg]

I came to Canada in 1966 and in Ontario there was no universal health care. A visit to the Dr cost $5. Most people at that time had coverage thru work.

I didn't know that. I did know that Tommy Douglas (Keifer's grandfather) brought in Universal Health care through the CCF party (socialist/demoncratic party) in Saskatchewan.

[ForeverAutumn]

You guys made me curious so I did a little reading. I found this on Wikipedia and found the last line very interesting!

Douglas's number one concern was the creation of Medicare. He introduced medical insurance reform in his first term, and gradually moved the province towards universal medicare near the end of his last term. In the summer of 1962, Saskatchewan became the centre of a hard-fought struggle between the provincial government, the North American medical establishment, and the province's physicians, who brought things to a halt with the 1962 Saskatchewan doctors' strike. The doctors believed their best interests were not being met and feared a significant loss of income as well as government interference in medical care decisions even though Douglas agreed that his government would pay the going rate for service that doctors charged. The medical establishment claimed that Douglas would import foreign doctors to make his plan work and used racist images to try to scare the public.[34]

Douglas is widely known as the father of Medicare, but the Saskatchewan universal program was finally launched by his successor, Woodrow Lloyd, in 1962. Douglas stepped down as premier and as a member of the legislature the previous year, to lead the newly formed federal successor to the CCF, the New Democratic Party of Canada (NDP).[35]

The success of the province's public health care program was not lost on the federal government. Another Saskatchewan politician, newly elected Prime Minister John Diefenbaker, decreed in 1958 that any province seeking to introduce a hospital plan would receive 50 cents on the dollar from the federal government. In 1962, Diefenbaker appointed Justice Emmett Hall—also of Saskatchewan, a noted jurist and Supreme Court Justice—to Chair a Royal Commission on the national health system—the Royal Commission on Health Services. In 1964, Justice Hall recommended a nationwide adoption of Saskatchewan's model of public health insurance. In 1966, the Liberal minority government of Lester B. Pearson created such a program, with the federal government paying 50% of the costs and the provinces the other half. The adoption of public health care across Canada ended up being the work of three men with diverse political ideals – Douglas of the CCF, Diefenbaker of the Progressive Conservatives, and Pearson of the Liberals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Douglas#Medicare

[ronmac]

My comments were specifically about the vaccines, and not drug pricing in general which is a separate issue IMO.

I was replying to the part of your comment about Big Pharma having the right to make a profit.

[mozo-pg]

You guys made me curious so I did a little reading. I found this on Wikipedia and found the last line very interesting!

Douglas is widely known as the father of Medicare, but the Saskatchewan universal program was finally launched by his successor, Woodrow Lloyd, in 1962. Douglas stepped down as premier and as a member of the legislature the previous year, to lead the newly formed federal successor to the CCF, the New Democratic Party of Canada (NDP).[35]

The adoption of public health care across Canada ended up being the work of three men with diverse political ideals – Douglas of the CCF, Diefenbaker of the Progressive Conservatives, and Pearson of the Liberals.[/B]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Douglas#Medicare

Esther - that's a cool history. Started by a socialist government (Tommy Douglas) in a tiny province (Saskatchewan - in population) but pushed throught at a national level by Liberal and Conservative governments. That's the left and the right collaborating for the public good!

[SteveSly]

Because Capitalism isn't a very good argument, how about because lobbying, monopolization, government collusion? Pharma should be for profit, just not for obscene profits at the expense (increased risk of death) of the general population. The rest of the developed world seems to have a plan that works.

As I said in my other reply, I was commenting specifically on the vaccine situation which I still believe in. I would rather not get into the larger issue of Pharma in general. I worked in the industry for 34 years and still doe not understand drug pricing other than different countries have completely different systems. I admit that there are big problems, but I do not have any answers.

[ronmac]

As I said in my other reply, I was commenting specifically on the vaccine situation which I still believe in. I would rather not get into the larger issue of Pharma in general. I worked in the industry for 34 years and still doe not understand drug pricing other than different countries have completely different systems. I admit that there are big problems, but I do not have any answers.

I'm not intending to further engage this issue, but, in the US, the answer is simple and has strong bi-partisan support. Get the money out of politics.

[SteveSly]

I'm not intending to further engage this issue, but, in the US, the answer is simple and has strong bi-partisan support. Get the money out of politics.

Campaign funding and political action committees are the root of much evil in the American political system Pharma included, but I think the drug pricing problem in the U.S. is more complicated than just that alone. Just my opinion of course, and as I said before, I don't have any good answers.

[Shadow]

Campaign funding and political action committees are the root of much evil in the American political system Pharma included, but I think the drug pricing problem in the U.S. is more complicated than just that alone. Just my opinion of course, and as I said before, I don't have any good answers.

The same people who complain about drug pricing are the same people whose pension is based on the stock market.

[spellbound]

A Very Handy Breakdown of the Most Common Vaccine Side Effects By Age

[progmatist]

I'm not intending to further engage this issue, but, in the US, the answer is simple and has strong bi-partisan support. Get the money out of politics.

Bear in mind one of the parties in Congress are out of touch with even their own base in matters like getting money out of politics.

[ronmac]

Bear in mind one of the parties in Congress are out of touch with even their own base in matters like getting money out of politics.

Actually, they both are.

[Scott Bails]

Bear in mind one of the parties in Congress are out of touch with even their own base in matters like getting money out of politics.

Actually, they both are.

The problem is that you're asking them to take money out of their own pockets. No one is going to vote in favor of that.

[Digital_Man]

I just tried to sign up to get the vaccine but they were out in my area. There is one place that had the J&J but I would rather not bother with that one. I'll just wait until either the Pfizer or Moderna are available near me.

[BarryLI]

I just tried to sign up to get the vaccine but they were out in my area. There is one place that had the J&J but I would rather not bother with that one. I'll just wait until either the Pfizer or Moderna are available near me.

7 million shots administered, 6 women between 18-48 developed blood clots (one died), I think your odds are pretty good, if you can't get a P or M in a short time I would take the J&J and not look back, you could also get hit by lightning with about the same odds.

[ronmac]

7 million shots administered, 6 women between 18-48 developed blood clots (one died), I think your odds are pretty good, if you can't get a P or M in a short time I would take the J&J and not look back, you could also get hit by lightning with about the same odds.

In fact, the chances fo getting blood clots from COVID are far greater.

[Lou]

A Very Handy Breakdown of the Most Common Vaccine Side Effects By Age

This is quite interesting. Thanks for sharing!

[BarryLI]

https://www.businessinsider.com/infe...ections-2021-4

So the big fat "0" in the death column for fully vaccinated people has taken a hit yes, but the fact the vax's appear to be 99.99% effective in staving off the cessation of life is certainly good news I'd think.

[Paulrus]

We got our first Moderna shot yesterday, the first day of eligibility for folks 16 and over in WA state. It's a good thing my better half jumped on registering us as soon as she did. The pharmacy where we got the shot wasn't crowded and there was almost no wait. The doctor who gave us the shot was cracking jokes and the whole experience was great. No side effects other than a sore shoulder, but we hear it's the second shot that can do a number on you.

[BarryLI]

We got our first Moderna shot yesterday, the first day of eligibility for folks 16 and over in WA state. It's a good thing my better half jumped on registering us as soon as she did. The pharmacy where we got the shot wasn't crowded and there was almost no wait. The doctor who gave us the shot was cracking jokes and the whole experience was great. No side effects other than a sore shoulder, but we hear it's the second shot that can do a number on you.

I had Moderna x2 and neither shot did a damn thing, maybe you'll be lucky, too.

[Digital_Man]

7 million shots administered, 6 women between 18-48 developed blood clots (one died), I think your odds are pretty good, if you can't get a P or M in a short time I would take the J&J and not look back, you could also get hit by lightning with about the same odds.

Well, apparently it's also only 60 percent effective. If I'm going to get a shot I want it to be more effective than that even if it takes two. Still, I might go with the J&J anyway if I have I can't get one of the others soon(that is if it's still available).