Great news!Originally Posted by Don Arnold
This is both good and bad as people will politicize Denmark's story to meet their narrative. I do believe that behavior or "civic mindedness" plays a large factor. But at the same time, I believe masks are imperative to have when you cannot social distance.
But I would be interested in reading an intelligent case study on Denmark in relation to masks. The link above was a general Google search in native language.
WANTED: Sig-worthy quote.
I think the chances of another "stay-at-home" order like we saw in late March is pretty slim. It's partly political for sure, but it's also practical. The economy would have a difficult time recovering from another 6-8 week measure, especially now.
Could something like this happen next Winter? Perhaps. However, I think this was a one-and-done occurrence. There may be lockdowns of a sort in certain cities or states, and restrictions involving travel. But I think the overwhelming sentiment will be "we are aware of the virus, we know what mitigates it, but you're on your own".
On a side note, any thoughts on further stimulus? I'm guessing they will NOT extend the boosted unemployment. If they do, it will be a 30 day gesture perhaps. I think instead there will be another stimulus payment that will be talked about in August, implemented in September, and in your mailbox in October, just before the election.
WANTED: Sig-worthy quote.
I had lunch (outdoors at a picnic table) with a good friend and former band mate yesterday. I love the guy like another little brother, but damn ... he's completely into the conspiracy theory stuff. We had discussed maybe eating outdoors at a certain restaurant and he said "no way, they tried to make me wear a mask the other day!". He thinks COVID-19 is a hoax, it's really some sort of flu, and the additional overall deaths are due to stay-at-home orders causing other health problems, domestic violence, and I'm not sure what else. It didn't matter what counter arguments or information I had to offer. Kinda depressing.
<sig out of order>
^^ We need more stimulus, for sure. That's what the government is for in times of crisis. If there was ever a time when the so-called "richest nation on Earth" needed to help out their citizens, this is it.
Our county (which includes Pittsburgh) is going in the wrong direction. We were luckier than the eastern half of the state before. We went into the green zone a couple of weeks ago. Now we're leading the state in new cases and heading toward another shut-down. I have one FB friend and local business colleague who I am ready to tell off in public. He continues to downplay this and is fueling the ignorance of others and putting people at risk. I have been making thinly veiled comments directed at his behavior and am now posting contradictory articles on his own posts, most of which are misleading or feeding the false narrative.
Until assholes like that shut the fuck up and stop being tools for politicians and pundits who don't share an agenda of safety and caution, we are doomed.
"The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"
The stuff I'm reading about Fauci from these ignorant fools is infuriating. The guy is a giant in the field and has been at this for 50 years. And these ignoramuses are merely parroting the shit they are being fed on Fox Noise, AON and other nefarious "news" outlets.
"The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"
The link just shows that infections are going down (despite the fact that we generally dont use masks).
The largest and 'finest' hospital in DK have in april/may initialized such a study together with other hospitals in the country, 6000 partcipants, but I have not seen any results (yet).
"The study is conducted as a draw study involving 6,000 participants, with one half of the subjects living as normal and following the authorities' recommendations during the corona epidemic, while the other half should wear masks each time they leave their home."
https://www.rigshospitalet.dk/presse...tlige-rum.aspx
Warning: Google translates masks (mundbind) as mouthwash - it is masks.
USA question:
Shouldn't another "stay-at-home" order come from the state governours ?
Aren't they responsible for this, open or closed borders, how many people are allowed in a crowd, etc.?
Couldn't there be different rules in New England and Arizona?
It is same in Finland. Nobody wore masks at any point and situation is currently very good. Only few new cases per day. There is I belive only twenty people in hospitals because of Covid-19 in whole country.
I wonder how big role not so good public healthcare and/or social security of USA plays in this? I mean I understand that in many cases if you get sick in USA you still have to go to work to make money. Or am I wrong? I mean in Finland if you get sick you can be quite long time away from work and still get paid.
My progressive music site: https://pienemmatpurot.com/ Reviews in English: https://pienemmatpurot.com/in-english/
There is a lot to unpack in the above comments, but I would like to start with the planned study in Denmark. It is beyond my comprehension that they would do a study comparing rates of infection in masked v. unmasked people, as that will tell you little since you cannot control for how people live their lives. You cannot control when masked people take off their masks- I am not wearing mine right now at work, because I am isolated in my office, but I wear it when I go out... Further, there is not equipoise here- there is sufficient evidence to suggest masking works, so the risk of allowing people to not wear them is not ethically justified. I understand you can cherry pick data, but the weight of evidence in favor of masking far outweighs the evidence for not. And 6000 people? I would like to see their sample size justification. The only outcome of interest is infection rate, so it should be easy to provide, I would think.
My take, which is without evidence, is that any success in Finland and Denmark is due to social consciousness. Why were they successful when Sweden was not? That does not exist in the US, where political polarization has created two realities, which do not intersect. And yes, in the US our healthcare system is so expensive that people do have to work to pay bills, and the government does nothing to help them. We have a perfect storm of how to amplify a viral pandemic- stupid administration, bad social safety net, political polarization, patchwork response across states, etc.
Last edited by Dana5140; 07-08-2020 at 09:53 AM.
I'm not lazy. I just work so fast I'm always done.
That's the only choice when the federal government shirks their responsibility. They have washed their hands of it all (no pun intended) and are moving on. We have ZERO leadership on this. And those who have the smarts and wisdom to get us through this are being marginalized by the White House. The news networks are being blocked from interviewing Fauci, for example.
"The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"
@Dana
I'll go with the social conciousness. I don't think the mask study will show anything conclusive, and there might not be enough infected to do the statistics .
Sweden is different from the rest of Scandinavia because they didn't have a lockdown (they follow a strategy of herd immunity), and they have a much larger group of immigrants from the middle east with a different lifestyle & language, who to a large degree don't mingle sufficiently with swedish society to get the required info about corona, as fast as the natives did. Its my impression they got hit bad.
results in Sweden suggested there was no benefit, either with regard to death rate, infection rate or economic impact, for their approach.
I'm not lazy. I just work so fast I'm always done.
Herd immunity is useless unless, once you get it, you're immune. They still don't know if that's the case.
"The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"
Y'all are gonna look silly in a few weeks, when this thing just disappears. You know, like a miracle.
Laughing at what, that I sold Xmas trees at a YMCA (I did other jobs the rest of the year, but most of my December weekdays circa 1992-1995 were managing a make shift Xmas tree lot that we set up on the north lawn and part of the parking lot) or laughing at the idea that people would be stingy with their money when shopping for Xmas trees? Or both?
In a way, I can see why you would laugh. It's one of those things, if you weren't living through it, you'd think "This would make a good scene in a Woody Allen movie" or something like that. People pointing out that Value City is selling trees for half of what we're selling there for (Value City isn't running a fundraiser aimed at keeping the YMCA open). Other pointing out a YMCA something liek 10 miles from ours is selling them for less than we are (perhaps they're not as in need of money as we our). People kvetching about how much more expensive the trees than the year before (they weren't, they were the exact same prices). People trying to haggle with me over prices, which I wasn't allowed to do until the last week before Xmas. It was just mindboggling with some of these people.
Last edited by GuitarGeek; 07-08-2020 at 12:11 PM.
I'm hearing some people, including the daughter of a friend who works in healthcare (that is, the daughter works in healthcare), who say another lockdown isn't a matter of if, but when.
So you reckon that the "when" won't be until after the elections? I'm not sure if I should be happy about that or not. On the one hand, if I can maintain my present employment situation (I now have two jobs, one of which, I think, is paying me more money than I've ever made before), and I keep my spending under control (which I think I'm getting a little better with), I should be able to squirrel away a decent amount of the money. On the other hand, I'm worried about all these idiots who can't be bothered to follow the social distancing/mask wearing guidelines (my county is going over to mandatory mask usage starting this evening, btw).
But you do make a reasonable point about the economic implications of such further actions. Lots of businesses have already gone down for the 10 count due to the first lockdown. At one of my jobs, one of the managers said that the company would probably have to close more stores (they went through a wave of closures about 4 years ago, I think it was) if there were another lockdown. He even mentioned talk of managers taking pay cuts and even trying to run the restaurants without managers (I'm not sure how running a business without managers is supposed to work, given the general laziness and stupidity of a lot of the people you meet in the workforce).
Another stimulus payment would be nice. It would help me get a little bit further ahead, as it were, especially if it's supplementing my pay from work. We'll see what happens.
Got my first haircut in months yesterday (Older men usually look bad with long hair) I was the only customer in the shop (3 barbers) I left my mask on the whole time as did the barber.
I look good, feel good.
If you do the math, that one time $1200 stimulus amounts to a single months wages at minimum wage. Even minimum wage isn't near enough to live off of.
The fact cases are spiking in warm weather states rule out Covid being a seasonal event. There will be no spike in winter because there's no decline from which to spike in the summer.
"Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"--Dalai Lama
I was lucky, I got a haircut about 2 weeks before the lockdown order went into effect. By the time lockdown ended, I was a bit shaggy, so I went it and got it cut about a week and a half ago.
Yeah, that's very true. I'm fortunate that I live at home with my parents, rent free, so I could have stretched that $1200 further than most people would, if it had come to it.If you do the math, that one time $1200 stimulus amounts to a single months wages at minimum wage. Even minimum wage isn't near enough to live off of.
Hair cut? I shaved my head at the end of March. The good? No more shampoo, conditioner or combs and detangler. The bad? Constant Shaving! After a day my head becomes Velcro! Lint, threads.....my friend warned me about cutting off the goatee....said most guys could end up looking like an Egg so watch out!
The Ice Cream Lady Wet her drawers........To see you in the Passion Playyyy eeee - I. Anderson
"It's kind of like deciding not to date a beautiful blonde anymore because she farted." - Top Cat
I was expecting to be kinda meh, but it made my nips stiffen - Jerjo
(Zamran) "that fucking thing man . . . it sits there on my wall like a broken clock " - Helix
Social Media is the "Toilet" of the Internet - Lady Gaga
The whole statement: "I got a clue about 28 years ago of how stupid and selfish some people in this country are, while selling Xmas trees at a YMCA.". And, as I said, I don't know why it struck me as funny, but it did. It's the sort of thing a character in a book would say.
People are certainly cheapskates. We had a garage sale many years ago and people wanted to haggle of 50-cent items.
"Will you take 35?"
"Here lady, just take it."
"The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"
My last hair cut was a couple of months before 9/11 2001. Ever since, I've been that bald guy with a pony tail, hidden under a ball cap.
"Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"--Dalai Lama
That's a pretty good look to rock. I have my moments too.
How many of you know someone that recovered from Covid? What kind of shape are they in? It's had some lingering effects that have been debilitating for some. I have yet to run across someone that had it and successfully got over it. Though I don't know many that even had it yet, so....
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks