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Thread: COVID-19 Coronavirus Information and Discussion

  1. #2001
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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    America’s Eternal Stockholm Syndrome
    The right-wing fixation with Sweden’s coronavirus response is the latest example of the Nordic countries’ hold on our political imagination.

    https://newrepublic.com/article/1577...kholm-syndrome

  2. #2002
    Outraged bystander markwoll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeuhlmate View Post
    America’s Eternal Stockholm Syndrome
    The right-wing fixation with Sweden’s coronavirus response is the latest example of the Nordic countries’ hold on our political imagination.

    https://newrepublic.com/article/1577...kholm-syndrome
    I listened this afternoon to a recent podcast from the FiveThirtyEight about the pandemic response in America.
    They mentioned the 'Swedish Experiment' , and sort of concluded that the difference was that the Swedes were more willing to conform to the guidelines of self isolation and reporting.
    A more responsible citizen population than the US.
    With over 80K deaths here with the far less than draconian ( than Spain, France or Italy ) I don't know if the US would fare well with 'responsible guideline following'.
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
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    Nostalgia, you know, ain't what it used to be. Furthermore, they tells me, it never was.
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  3. #2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by markwoll View Post
    With over 80K deaths here with the far less than draconian ( than Spain, France or Italy ) I don't know if the US would fare well with 'responsible guideline following'.
    Based on news film today showing hundreds or thousands of mostly maskless people congregating in close proximity on beaches and boardwalks, not very.

  4. #2004
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    ^ Not just beaches, but also some restaurants and other businesses. I could explain why, but it's important that it be kept a secret.

  5. #2005
    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    ^ Not just beaches, but also some restaurants and other businesses. I could explain why, but it's important that it be kept a secret.
    It's because people have been trained to no longer think for themselves.

    This is what that gets you.
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  6. #2006
    If you want to know how well opening things up are, try and schedule a tour of the White House.
    NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF STUPID PEOPLE IN LARGE GROUPS!

  7. #2007
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    US Economist Lawrence H. Summers:

    https://twitter.com/LHSummers/status...80887534759936

  8. #2008
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    Clearwater Beach, Florida live webcam at 11:55am Sunday May 17..Social distancing in place and Sunday's are usually a pretty popular day.
    Since reopening the Sheriff of Pineallas County who was one of the original officials saying the beaches should be closed in the early days, released comments to the media praising the behavior of the residents of Pinellas County after the beaches reopened on the 11th.

    I think the local media, print and tv have done a great job on reporting when there is positive things to report about the reopening.
    The national media on the other hand goes out of their way to find negativity and keeps anything positive that's happening on the back burner. I'm not calling them fake news, but I do believe their feeling of self righteousness and caretakers of all that is good and true is nothing but a bunch of horse manure. I really do think they think most of the public is so stupid they have to be led to the light by their reporting so we get it right.

    I remember back in the days when tv anchors were journalists first, people like Walter Cronkite, Huntley/Brinkley or Peter Jennings. When they reported the news, you never got a sense of what their politics were, they simply reported the news and let people make up their own mind. Now we get cookie cutter reporters trained in cookie cutter universities who get jobs at stations with cookie cutter corporate managers, and with 24hr cable news, the competition is greater than ever before, and I do think stories are often beefed up to drive ratings for advertising revenue.

    It gets harder and harder to find unbiased reporting, the politics of news whether it's from the right or the left has reached a level where you don't know what to believe anymore.
    All I can do is look around and what's happening in my state, my neighborhood, my grocery store, by community businesses, my parks and beaches and compare it to what is being reported, and all I can say the story is different than what's on the national news.

    https://www.skylinewebcams.com/en/we...ter-beach.html
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  9. #2009
    Member since March 2004 mozo-pg's Avatar
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    I really like David Muir. I actually prefer ABC news to my own Canadian sources (CBC/CTV).
    What can this strange device be? When I touch it, it brings forth a sound (2112)

  10. #2010

  11. #2011
    There are plenty of sources of unbiased news out there. And there are plenty of serious reporters committed to truthful reporting and questioning those in power to keep them in check. There's no excuse for not seeing it, unless you're completely off the grid.
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  12. #2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by mozo-pg View Post
    I really like David Muir. I actually prefer ABC news to my own Canadian sources (CBC/CTV).
    I no longer watch television news, but if I had to choose, I think network news tend to do a better job at reporting than cable news..CNN, MSNBC and FOX are horrible!!
    I did a search on David Muir and he seems to have good credentials, but most of the titles in my search thought the fact he is gay was the most important detail to describe him....sad

    that was a interesting read and food for thought, thank you. Of course, it unfortunately is in the NY Post which cause many to overlook it.
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  13. #2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    There are plenty of sources of unbiased news out there. And there are plenty of serious reporters committed to truthful reporting and questioning those in power to keep them in check. There's no excuse for not seeing it, unless you're completely off the grid.
    In all seriousness I ask if you don't mind sharing because I became so disenfranchised by what's out there, I frankly gave up.

    But I still stand by my opinion most of the media are biased either left or right and the way they present news is a direct result of that.

    I wish I was off the grid.
    Soundcloud page: Richard Hermans, musical meanderings https://soundcloud.com/precipice YouTube: [https://www.youtube.com/@richardhermans4457

  14. #2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by mozo-pg View Post
    I really like David Muir.
    Isn't that the guy who used to flail chains and spit out fake blood during the King Crimson shows? Oh wait that's his 7th cousin Jamie on his great, great, great uncle's sisters side. Sorry carry on.......
    If it isn't Krautrock, it's krap.

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  15. #2015
    Member since March 2004 mozo-pg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chalkpie View Post
    Isn't that the guy who used to flail chains and spit out fake blood during the King Crimson shows? Oh wait that's his 7th cousin Jamie on his great, great, great uncle's sisters side. Sorry carry on.......
    Easy to make the error!
    What can this strange device be? When I touch it, it brings forth a sound (2112)

  16. #2016
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    The national media on the other hand goes out of their way to find negativity and keeps anything positive that's happening on the back burner. I'm not calling them fake news, but I do believe their feeling of self righteousness and caretakers of all that is good and true is nothing but a bunch of horse manure.
    Completely agree.

  17. #2017
    Moderator Poisoned Youth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    But I still stand by my opinion most of the media are biased either left or right and the way they present news is a direct result of that.
    I only half agree. From my observations, I think much conservative mainstream or quasi-mainstream media is unabashedly conservative (originating as a need for "counter culture", but later pure pandering). Whereas liberal mainstream media is accidentally liberal.

    Don't get me wrong, this is not to say there isn't mainstream media that panders to the left. But from how I see it the "liberal" bias often gets confused with a "metropolitan" bias. Think about it. The largest newspapers are from the largest cities. The largest TV networks have roots in Hollywood. Most of the headquarters are in places like NYC. Most of the journalists have a college educated background. Many of them grew up and/or moved to these metropolitan areas for work.

    While journalists are supposed to be objective, their experiences will naturally add bias (even in the form of an editorial). But these experiences will be driven by and reaffirmed by the urban culture around them. They will likely be in more diverse environments, more in touch with global affairs, more in touch with urban lifestyles, and more exposed to different religions and cultures. They also tend to be more progressive/forward aiming. And many of them may feel (rightly or wrongly) more enlightened. So they will craft (for example) pro gay marriage articles, but the language used will make anyone who is not yet on board seem like a bad person, even though the subject was taboo a few years before. They become "the elites" in a sense, controlling the narrative.

    However, in the process, many of these same people lose touch with what life is like in the rest of the USA. This metropolitan point of view generally ignores the small town or rural point of view and culture when reporting and/or shaping stories. But with all that says, that is NOT necessarily a purposeful *political* bias, from my perspective.

    But I think there are a few things worth repeating. First and foremost, mainstream media is about capturing and maintaining your attention. It's about ad dollars. It's about clickbait. And virtually all mainstream media outlets - and many of the emerging ones - have ties to entertainment empires. This pandemic is like a Godsend for their pocketbooks.

    THAT SAID, "counter media", for the most part, is NOT the answer. From my perspective, those looking to avoid mainstream news for its "bias" have put their trust largely into counter media that makes bank off the narrative that the mainstream can't be trusted. Many of those outlets do not have an infrastructure that help mitigate errors nor accountability. In fact, counter media usually attacks fact checking sites as politically compromised (how convenient).

    And beyond the counter media is social media, under the guise of trying to act like ham radio patriots during WWII, we award any loud mouth with an opinion and a webcam to with millions of views, thereby legitimizing the method. These guys are going to tell you "the XXXX things XXXX doesn't want you to know. WAKE UP SHEEPLE!" But they appeal to an audience looking to escape the mainstream, with the mistake (imo) of trusting 1 person or a few to tell them "the truth".

    I'll stop here, and just quote myself to finish out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    As a consumer of media in the 21st century, it's important that information be ingested through your own skepticism filter. But it's also important, imo, like you invest in stocks, that you should diversify your information sources. That's the best way to able to discern truth and facts from opinion and misinformation.

    your best bet for journalism and credible information is largely going to be more established sources and there is a lot of decent journalism out there. But if your average person takes a bit more effort to diversify sources, ignore noise, and actually read/watch deeper in-depth reporting, they will be smarter and more responsible consumers of information.
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  18. #2018
    Moderator Poisoned Youth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    The national media on the other hand goes out of their way to find negativity and keeps anything positive that's happening on the back burner.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flightwave View Post
    Completely agree.
    FWIW, it has ALWAYS been this way. It only seems worse now because there didn't used to be 24/7 news. But the notion that "news is always negative" is as old as the first stone tablet.
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  19. #2019
    Man of repute progmatist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mozo-pg View Post
    I really like David Muir. I actually prefer ABC news to my own Canadian sources (CBC/CTV).
    My primary (but not my only) source is the BBC. I prefer a not for profit, non-corporate view of the world.

    When the vast majority of advertising on the big 3 broadcast and big 3 cable news channels are prescription drugs, how inclined will they be to report on drug pricing?
    Last edited by progmatist; 05-17-2020 at 02:31 PM.
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  20. #2020
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    All the news I watch on TV is usually PBS, and BBC America. I love British accents (most anyway).

  21. #2021
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    In all seriousness I ask if you don't mind sharing because I became so disenfranchised by what's out there, I frankly gave up.

    But I still stand by my opinion most of the media are biased either left or right and the way they present news is a direct result of that.
    You're not going to find any organization that is 100% unbiased. But, this is a good place to begin:

    https://mediabiasfactcheck.com

    But, the best way to find unbiased reporting is to become informed enough to recognize biased reporting.
    "The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"

  22. #2022
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    I only half agree. From my observations, I think much conservative mainstream or quasi-mainstream media is unabashedly conservative (originating as a need for "counter culture", but later pure pandering). Whereas liberal mainstream media is accidentally liberal.

    Don't get me wrong, this is not to say there isn't mainstream media that panders to the left. But from how I see it the "liberal" bias often gets confused with a "metropolitan" bias. Think about it. The largest newspapers are from the largest cities. The largest TV networks have roots in Hollywood. Most of the headquarters are in places like NYC. Most of the journalists have a college educated background. Many of them grew up and/or moved to these metropolitan areas for work.

    While journalists are supposed to be objective, their experiences will naturally add bias (even in the form of an editorial). But these experiences will be driven by and reaffirmed by the urban culture around them. They will likely be in more diverse environments, more in touch with global affairs, more in touch with urban lifestyles, and more exposed to different religions and cultures. They also tend to be more progressive/forward aiming. And many of them may feel (rightly or wrongly) more enlightened. So they will craft (for example) pro gay marriage articles, but the language used will make anyone who is not yet on board seem like a bad person, even though the subject was taboo a few years before. They become "the elites" in a sense, controlling the narrative.

    However, in the process, many of these same people lose touch with what life is like in the rest of the USA. This metropolitan point of view generally ignores the small town or rural point of view and culture when reporting and/or shaping stories. But with all that says, that is NOT necessarily a purposeful *political* bias, from my perspective.

    But I think there are a few things worth repeating. First and foremost, mainstream media is about capturing and maintaining your attention. It's about ad dollars. It's about clickbait. And virtually all mainstream media outlets - and many of the emerging ones - have ties to entertainment empires. This pandemic is like a Godsend for their pocketbooks.

    THAT SAID, "counter media", for the most part, is NOT the answer. From my perspective, those looking to avoid mainstream news for its "bias" have put their trust largely into counter media that makes bank off the narrative that the mainstream can't be trusted. Many of those outlets do not have an infrastructure that help mitigate errors nor accountability. In fact, counter media usually attacks fact checking sites as politically compromised (how convenient).

    And beyond the counter media is social media, under the guise of trying to act like ham radio patriots during WWII, we award any loud mouth with an opinion and a webcam to with millions of views, thereby legitimizing the method. These guys are going to tell you "the XXXX things XXXX doesn't want you to know. WAKE UP SHEEPLE!" But they appeal to an audience looking to escape the mainstream, with the mistake (imo) of trusting 1 person or a few to tell them "the truth".

    I'll stop here, and just quote myself to finish out.
    I always appreciate your perspective on culture and the media. You make some great points and have the ability to put topics into a real world explanation.
    I often think of how news reporting, print, television, etc is handled in other countries. How a free press does not exist in some countries, how journalists who do write the truth usually wind up missing, and how journalists in those countries would give their right arm to have the freedom we have in the US, UK and other places.
    I think the press in this country takes this freedom for granted and because of that have become fat and lazy. Not all, there are still good journalists who realize the precious gift they have to investigate and expose bad things, whether in politics, business, military or society. But overall, I've completely lost respect for the media in this country and around the world.

    But I appreciate a open discussion and other people's opinions, and comments like PY write, encourages one to re-evaluate our opinions.
    Soundcloud page: Richard Hermans, musical meanderings https://soundcloud.com/precipice YouTube: [https://www.youtube.com/@richardhermans4457

  23. #2023
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    You're not going to find any organization that is 100% unbiased. But, this is a good place to begin:

    https://mediabiasfactcheck.com

    But, the best way to find unbiased reporting is to become informed enough to recognize biased reporting.
    Thank you for that, I appreciate it..just bookmarked and will check it out this week.

    And thank you to other members who've shared their sources, appreciate it very much.
    (btw, I agree about the British accents).
    Soundcloud page: Richard Hermans, musical meanderings https://soundcloud.com/precipice YouTube: [https://www.youtube.com/@richardhermans4457

  24. #2024
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    Thanks Sean for your thoughts on journalistic views based on their environments......This will be rattling around in my head today as I putz around the house / yard.... (no sarcasm intended)

    Back a bit to Covid 19 effects......anyone notice the absence of the homeless / homeless camps in their parts of the world? All the usual spots in my area are vacant....no curbside panhandling either. But, there is an increase of vehicles accumulating in the Walmart parking lots.....before the pandemic, the local police were pretty good at keeping those folks "moving along". There are also folks "just hanging out around their cars" in the parking lots....Maybe the "couch surfers" and studio apartment dwellers looking for a change of scenery?
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  25. #2025
    Outraged bystander markwoll's Avatar
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    We just got back from picking up a carry out from a local Cava.
    We saw 3 panhandlers ( 2 at stop lights and a pair in the shopping center parking lot ) ( one stoplight guy was wearing a mask )
    And one crazy guy dressed in a black cassock waving a sign and yelling about something.
    Not ordinary.
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
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