"The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"
I'm not even sure what to say, but some have already weighed in, so I'll go off those.
This is generally how I feel. I think this has become so much a part of our way of discourse since the internet, that people insult others so nonchalantly. And I'd say it's "most people" these days, not some imo.
And in terms of echo chamber, you're absolutely spot on. First with alternate media than with social media, so many people with strong political opinions are often not sharing THEIR opinion, but sharing someone else's.
I have a close good friend from college days who shares his shit on FB all the time. One day, I just told him "hey, when am I going to actually hear from YOU, and not what you're sharing or parroting."
Which leads me to...
In my experience, most people are brainwashed, and often willingly. And being "unbiased" in practice is rare. It doesn't begin and end with politics either.
As I have stated in other conversations before, I belong to 3 whisky groups on FB. Between that and music, my feed is 2/3s filled with shots of bottles of booze, music, and other things. Within 3 months after joining those whisky groups, my purchases doubled. And I would catch myself getting really deep in it, constantly giving recommendations, finding those who agree about what I like and dislike, and often covering the same ground over and over.
Now imagine 2/3s of your Facebook feed positively or negatively enforcing deeply personal topics like your political and religious beliefs. This is why we are where we are today. Period.
I have been cleaning it up quite a bit. And even though I have banned people as a result of this thread and threatened to ban others, the shit still flies - daily - whenever I'm not on top of it. If this was 5 years ago, I would take it personally as a lack of disrespect for the forum operators and myself. But it runs much deeper than that.
WANTED: Sig-worthy quote.
I don't know how the prostitution business affects the spread of coronavirus, but one brothel managed to get an emergency small business loan.
Despite cultural headwind, Nevada brothel owner awarded federal relief, but funds are not available
We're trying to build a monument to show that we were here
It won't be visible through the air
And there won't be any shade to cool the monument to prove that we were here. - Gene Parsons, 1973
You got that right!
I'd only add that in my experience (including here) certain people sometimes have a difficult time differentiating between an argument against their views, (no matter how passionate, principled and reasoned) vs. an ad hominem attack and worse, they project by responding with their own ad hominem impugning the writer rather than the argument! I guess it's human nature when one is unable or unwilling to coherently and evidentially defend their views. Disrespecting an argument does not mean disrespecting the person. Personally, I like to have my arguments and viewpoints challenged - it is an opportunity to learn - and in the face of new evidence and/or logic, change. Some people just can't stand the heat and therefore should stay out of the proverbial kitchen.
I have been guilty in the past of attacking political groups with a broad brush (for which I apologize) and for attacking certain political figures (for which I will go to my grave unapologetic), but I don't believe I have ever attacked personally another forum member even when attacked. If you think I have, clearly you're a moronic dipshit.
<sig out of order>
Folks, I quit FB 18 months ago. Because of the issues noted here, and for which I have been taken to task here- I get very angry about people because I have experience with infant death and never want to see it happen to anyone ever, Dr. Oz notwithstanding. So it is hard not to strike back at people who are directly threatening someone you love.
I wrote about the problems of social media: http://respectmyculturalauthority.bl...se-social.html
I'm not lazy. I just work so fast I'm always done.
I'm gonna guess that we define "politics" differently. I don't see it as just a contest between political parties, or individuals from those parties, or things a politician says. For me, it encompasses, Law, Government, parts of the Media, and yes, public policy, political philosophies and ideologies. All of this is incredibly relevant to the topic at hand. In fact, it may be the most relevant aspect of the whole crisis. Especially if one wants to speculate on what could happen as we move forward. What isn't relevant is that this is PE, and in the grand scheme of things, has no bearing on any of the outcomes relating to this crisis. At best, we can inform readers of the site, and perhaps nudge them to see things differently than they would otherwise. Same as it ever was. But let's not delude ourselves into thinking that we are giving the subject a thorough going over. We are not...It's a music discussion site, so I guess, no big deal.
As I have said before. Making any mention of public policy/politics verboten creates the illusion that all public policy views have equal merit. They do not. That's not opinion, it can be empirically proven. At least in this situation.
The coronavirus did not escape from a lab. Here's how we know.
Trump, Aides Float ‘Chinese Lab’ Theory on Origins of CoronavirusA new analysis of SARS-CoV-2 may finally put that latter idea to bed. A group of researchers compared the genome of this novel coronavirus with the seven other coronaviruses known to infect humans: SARS, MERS and SARS-CoV-2, which can cause severe disease; along with HKU1, NL63, OC43 and 229E, which typically cause just mild symptoms, the researchers wrote March 17 in the journal Nature Medicine.
"Our analyses clearly show that SARS-CoV-2 is not a laboratory construct or a purposefully manipulated virus," they write in the journal article.
The Origins and Scientific Failings of the COVID-19 ‘Bioweapon’ Conspiracy TheoryA scientific consensus is still evolving. But experts overwhelmingly say analysis of the new coronavirus’ genome rules out the possibility that it was engineered by humans, as some conspiracy theories have suggested.
Nor is it likely that the virus emerged from a negligent laboratory in China, they say. “I would put it on a list of 1,000 different scenarios,” said Nathan Grubaugh of Yale University, who studies the epidemiology of microbial disease.
Coronavirus: Is there any evidence for lab release theory?With those bogus scientific claims stripped away, we are left with the same circumstantial evidence... A virology lab (which does not appear to have worked on coronaviruses) exists in close proximity to the proposed origin of the outbreak, and another, higher-security lab that has worked on coronaviruses is located miles away from the market.
Could science, alternatively, help to rule out the possibility SARS-CoV-2 was created in a lab? Indeed, the actual peer-reviewed research on the deadly adaptations present in the virus are also the strongest argument yet against the notion that it has been engineered.
Scientific Reality: Genomic Data Undercut Claims of an Engineered Virus
Did coronavirus come from a lab?But a US study of the coronavirus genome published in March found no signs that it had been engineered. "By comparing the available genome sequence data for known coronavirus strains, we can firmly determine that SARS-CoV-2 originated through natural processes," said co-author Kristian Andersen, from Scripps Research, said at the time.
US explores possibility that coronavirus spread started in Chinese lab, not a marketNew diseases have emerged throughout human history, and we have seen two major coronavirus outbreaks in the last two decades: SARS and MERS. So we shouldn’t be surprised by the arrival of the covid-19 virus.
However, rumours on social media suggest that the outbreak was human-made. Some say the virus leaked from a Chinese lab studying coronaviruses. Others suggest the virus was engineered to spread among humans.
Even the most secure laboratories do sometimes have accidents, and a human-engineered pandemic has been identified as a possible risk to our civilisation, but there is no good evidence that either has happened.
Many similar viruses are found in wild bats, and it seems likely that is the origin of this one, probably via an intermediate host. Similarly, we know that both SARS and MERS came from bats, so there is no reason to invoke a laboratory accident.
Joint Chief of Staff Chairman Mark Milley acknowledged this week that US intelligence is taking "a hard look" at the question of whether the novel coronavirus originated in a lab.
"I would just say, at this point, it's inconclusive although the weight of evidence seems to indicate natural (origin). But we don't know for certain," Milley told reporters on Tuesday.
Last edited by Poisoned Youth; 04-17-2020 at 11:00 AM.
Where are actual journalists and who employs them? I trust none of them really, believing them to be corporate shills.
Labs dont only "create" virus'... They also study them - real ones that actually exist in nature like this one. I haven't heard anyone saying it was manufactured in the lab. It comes from Bats that exist in caves about 600 miles from where the lab is located. It is actually responsible science to study and research something like that - without being accused of germ warfare. The problem is a level 4 lab isnt supposed to let anything out. The protocols to prevent that are supposed to make that impossible. Something getting out is akin to you walking into your bank, walking behind the counter with a duffle bag, in broad daylight filling it with money and walking out undetected. It should NEVER happen.
Anyone familiar with the "Monkey House" in Reston Virginia? about 30 years ago, some strain of Ebola was being researched at a lab and it almost got out after a monkey-frenzied revolt. I dont recall the specific details but its online... Things went really bad, but it was contained because the option of covering it up and letting it fly free was unthinkable. Some people made some very stupid decisions. Supposedly, it could never happen again. I guess if every country only does it only once, we should be OK... Only what? 150+ more forgivable and understandable mistakes to go.
I got nothin' :
...avoiding any implication that I have ever entertained a cognizant thought.
live samples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwbCFGbAtFc
https://youtu.be/AEE5OZXJioE
https://soundcloud.com/yodelgoat/yod...om-a-live-show
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUe3YhCjy6g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VOCJokzL_s
My former nursing student (here in Japan) in the infectious diseases section of the primary hospital in a hard hit region is opening up...
Did you see the wonderful scene where the NYPD stood and applauded the medical workers at one of the hospitals? Well, Fukuoka ward workers and outside staff did the same, standing in the parking lot and applauding the medical staff who appeared at windows. My former student was moved to tears by this when she took her 30 seconds at the window.
An elderly farmer, who caught the virus in a nursing home, eventually recovered in the hospital. He thanked my former student by giving her... a bag of potatoes. It’s the only way he knew to say ‘thanks’ and she was very moved. She has placed the potatoes on a mantle piece in her apartment.
A man of about 30 with comorbidities (obesity, type 2 diabetes, hypertension) was under her care on a ventilator. He was very frightened and she saw him looking at her with a tear rolling down his cheek. She decided to stay a minute beside him, not talking, just smiling at him. Although she was busy, she said those extra few seconds of just staying next to him and smiling seemed very therapeutic... for both of them.
do you not see that statement as tantamount to "only my way of thinking is right" my friend? When one political ideology or the other thinks that, it plays so melodiously into the enemy's hand... divide and conquer is the scheme; the entire design of this world system
Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?
I will PM you for an intellectual, in depth discussion. Posting it on the forum is against the rules and I understand why
Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?
This is the story of Douglas Preston's book "The Hot Zone," which traced an outbreak of Ebola Reston (a new strain of the Ebola virus) to the importation of primates for medical research in a research lab in Reston, VA. It was subsequently turned into a TV show a year ago with Julianna Margulies playing the top scientist, Nancy Jax. The primates came from Africa. In truth, the specific strain of Ebola led only to mild respiratory disease in humans, but was found to be spread by aerosol droplets along with blood- had this been a more lethal form of Ebola, it could have been devastating.nyone familiar with the "Monkey House" in Reston Virginia? about 30 years ago, some strain of Ebola was being researched at a lab and it almost got out after a monkey-frenzied revolt. I don't recall the specific details but its online... Things went really bad, but it was contained because the option of covering it up and letting it fly free was unthinkable. Some people made some very stupid decisions. Supposedly, it could never happen again. I guess if every country only does it only once, we should be OK... Only what? 150+ more forgivable and understandable mistakes to go.
The literature available has pretty much demonstrated this was not a biomanufactured virus. DNA typing has show its relation to other corona viruses. It is likely that a Chinese biolab would have had it for study- but I think it highly unlikely that it was leaked because that would allow other countries to directly go at China at a time when they cannot afford for that to happen- realpolitik. What I think we are seeing is a shifting of blame onto other countries in order to escape any blame here. That is also realpolitik.
I'm not lazy. I just work so fast I'm always done.
Here is a recent article posted from Johns Hopkins Hospital comparing the annual flu versus Covid-19.
The comparison numbers of cases and deaths are interesting to say the least.
The biggest concern I read all the time is no one has immunity and there is no vaccine, however I read some statistics that say on a good year we are lucky if the flu vaccine given for the flu season, the success rate is 47%(best scenario).
Please keep in mind, I am posting this because the data comes from a reliable well respected source and describes the difference in easy layman's terms (I need this..lol), and because I was curious and it's hard to sift through all the white noise out there.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/heal...019-vs-the-flu
Last edited by Top Cat; 04-17-2020 at 11:00 AM. Reason: wrote Johns Hopkins incorrectly.
Soundcloud page: Richard Hermans, musical meanderings https://soundcloud.com/precipice YouTube: [https://www.youtube.com/@richardhermans4457
Everyone, we are not going to debate the origins of the virus here at PE for these reasons (among others).
1. The scientific evidence is plenty that this was not a manufactured virus.
2. Leave the "leaked from a lab" or "accident gone bad" investigation to intelligence agencies. Your Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew approach to browsing the internet for answers isn't going to solve it.
3. The cat is out of the bag. So the focus now should be on the items of the moment.
WANTED: Sig-worthy quote.
No, I don't see that at all. Reread my post. We're not talking about differing opinions based on an analysis of the evidence. We are talking about accepting the evidence or opting for a belief-based approach. Completely different, and one clearly reality-based, the other not.
We, as a culture, have been told repeatedly over the last 30 years or so to distrust the media. They lie. They are biased. They opine more than report. Then came the alternate media, which promised to be different - but hardly could be considered neutral (in most cases). Originally underground, it's now fairly mainstream as well.
Then came the internet and now everyone had access to find their own information. The problem is there is no compass, room for even more bias, and fringe information emerged as equally credible to mainstream.
This all culminated into social media, where people's distrust of everything leads them into only seeking out information they can believe, even if that comes from some "truth blogger" or "YouTube evangelist". Over time, we have given equal and sometimes more weight to "just some asshole who has an opinion, no vetting, but seems convincing and smart" than to established and historically credible mainstream media outlets.
In terms of "where are the journalists"...most of them are employed by larger media outlets. And there is a lot of good to great journalists out there that are doing what one would expect. But you're right to point out that we should always be aware there is a profit motive by the entities that employ them. Most of the major outlets are owned by entertainment companies. As such, more attention is paid to "retaining the attention" of viewers. So lots of time good journalism and reporting can get lost in the muck of opinion/editorial programs as well as (in the case of most cable news), hours and hours of beating a talking point to death.
I sort of see cable news as an entity trapped in its own design. They have to run 24/7, but they don't really have the content to do so. The cheapest content to produce is "talk". But because real world events don't really move *that* quickly, cable news is the equivalent of reading 1 page in a novel each day and using the entire day to discuss it.
As a consumer of media in the 21st century, it's important that information be ingested through your own skepticism filter. But it's also important, imo, like you invest in stocks, that you should diversify your information sources. That's the best way to able to discern truth and facts from opinion and misinformation.
For example, now we have news feeds as a source. I have an iPhone news feed myself. You can customize it and add topics, etc. When I see 5 different news sources reporting the same thing, I can get a better sense of what information is useful and factual, and what to toss away. In a sense, it makes us all armchair journalists.
Unfortunately, there is an overwhelming trend in print media to create "clickbait" or misleading headlines to get you to click and read the article. They put one word or phrase in quotes, then you read the article and you realize it's mostly out of context. But worse yet, many people on FB and Twitter don't even read the article. They just see the headline, react, and comment away with their emotions.
Worse yet is modern day "sourcing" for info. Before Game of Thrones 8th season was starting a year ago, I subscribed to any GoT news. Most days, the "news" was filled with rumor after rumor after one millionth fucking rumor of something that might happen in the plot of GoT. Most of these "stories" were originated because some dingleberry on Reddit posed a theory about this or that. It's insane how much "noise" is out there today.
I suppose I wrote this essay (sorry about that) to say that your best bet for journalism and credible information is largely going to be more established sources and there is a lot of decent journalism out there. But if your average person takes a bit more effort to diversify sources, ignore noise, and actually read/watch deeper in-depth reporting, they will be smarter and more responsible consumers of information.
WANTED: Sig-worthy quote.
There was no debate. There was a false claim made sighting a disreputable source and a then a meticulous correction sighting seven or eight mostly in-depth articles from reputable sources that quote established experts in epidemiology and others working on the front line as well as peer-reviewed scientific journals and finally the individual on the joint chiefs of staff in part responsible for coordinating that investigation. That was a lot of work on my part, I had even provided excerpts from the articles for those who don't have time to read them all. I wish I has saved that list of references now.
I respectfully disagree. This is absolutely of the moment: misinformation is the enemy, moreover if governments point the finger at each other rather than taking responsibility for their actions and fostering a spirit of international cooperation, this crisis will not be solved with the efficacy and speed it should be - this is a global problem.3. The cat is out of the bag. So the focus now should be on the items of the moment.
I responded to the journalistic concern with concise and objective instructions on how an investigative reporter would go about evaluating the veracity of the information, cross-checking sources etc. and concluded by asking the poster to provide their reasoning and references it they were to come to a different conclusion. I wanted to make sure I got it right, nobody's perfect and perhaps I missed something. That too was taken down, yet you felt a need to respond yourself in a much more wide-ranging and narrative way that is more of an opinion piece.I suppose I wrote this essay (sorry about that) to say that your best bet for journalism and credible information is largely going to be more established sources and there is a lot of decent journalism out there. But if your average person takes a bit more effort to diversify sources, ignore noise, and actually read/watch deeper in-depth reporting, they will be smarter and more responsible consumers of information.
That being the case, IMO this thread should either be closed or restricted to personal experience since even a well-researched post providing articles sighting proximate and even primary scientific sources was removed. I'm not sure where that leaves us, but it certainly leaves me out going forward. No doubt, some will rejoice at that news.
^^^ Most of what I wrote in both of my posts had NOTHING to do with you. And the 2nd post about journalism and media had nothing to do with the origin of the virus at all.
FYI I brought back your researched post, but edited out the portions (you seem to forgot) where you were condescending and insulting. The most well intentioned post that ends with with insults is going to be more remembered for its attitude than the facts.
Last edited by Poisoned Youth; 04-17-2020 at 11:04 AM.
WANTED: Sig-worthy quote.
Thank you!
I know this is tiresome, but I guess we just see it differently.
You have me at a disadvantage since the edited portions are gone. However at no point did I insult anybody whatsoever, rather I criticized their actions, insisting that people stop posting rumors and cautioned on reliance on disreputable sources - the source I named has incontrovertibly been a source of misinformation. Maybe that's why that source is facing a lawsuit as a result. Correction, even harsh correction is not condescension. My response was fully justified and I stand by it 100%. Perhaps I'm blind to being insulting and condescending, but I do find it ironic that I am being personally criticized when I did no such thing to anyone else. There was no adjective modifying a direct object where that object was another forum member at any point. Facts are facts. Emotions are emotions.
This entire episode was unnecessary, but I really do appreciate your restoring the references and if I come across condescending, that was not my intention whatever you may believe.
btw
Sorry, Immunity to Covid-19 Won't Be Like a Superpower
https://www.wired.com/story/sorry-im...-a-superpower/
Just remember that almost All reporting ( and most online content in general ) is Advertising supported.
They live and die by the click and reshare.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
-- Aristotle
Nostalgia, you know, ain't what it used to be. Furthermore, they tells me, it never was.
“A Man Who Does Not Read Has No Appreciable Advantage Over the Man Who Cannot Read” - Mark Twain
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