COVID-19 Coronavirus Information and Discussion

[Dana5140]

Meaningless- without appropriate testing the government does not know the number of cases and cannot calculate its growth.

[rcarlberg]

Meaningless- without appropriate testing the government does not know the number of cases and cannot calculate its growth.

Exactly right. Yamishogun, if the moderators of this board won't shut you down for spreading false information during a global crisis, I will at least call you out on it.

The US hasn't done enough testing to have ANY IDEA how many cases we have.

[Dave (in MA)]

Not so long ago I came to PE for discussions of prog epics and art rock, and now I end up reading a discussion about toilet paper, hairy bottoms, bidets and shit that can swim (or not).

The concept album is going to be epic.

[rcarlberg]

Dana5140, my condolences, I cannot imagine.

[Dave the Brave]

Hey, if you have that much faith in your fellow citizen, then go right ahead.



Actually, that's not true. For example, it doesn't kill fecal matter. I had to point that out to a neighbor after a child shit in his pool.

As I mentioned pool chlorine is diluted bleach level will kill just about everything.

DtB

[rcarlberg]

Hey all. Here's a website that some 17-year old kid created that provides ACCURATE, UP-TO-DATE information. Please do not reference inaccurate outdated information anymore.

https://ncov2019.live/data

[Garyhead]

Exactly right. Yamishogun, if the moderators of this board won't shut you down for spreading false information during a global crisis, I will at least call you out on it.

The US hasn't done enough testing to have ANY IDEA how many cases we have.

Geez.....I've had that guy blocked since forever!.....

[ronmac]

As I mentioned pool chlorine is diluted bleach level will kill just about everything.

DtB

If one was only restricted to being IN THE POOL, it might be relevant. What about the locker room? How about the losers pissing in the shower?

[Plasmatopia]

But let me place a real-world face to this virus.

Damn. That's heartbreaking.

[Buddhabreath]

... I wanted to share our experience with the hope it would be one more motivator for people to stay home and stay healthy.
...

Thanks for putting a human face on this. If it inspires even one person to stay at home or avoid any trips or interactions that are not absolutely critical then you will have done a service. We are now at 5K confirmed cases and will most probably be at tens of thousands of cases or more soon if we have widely available testing - at least in the view of epidemiological professionals I have heard publicly express their views. We and they will not know until we have more empirical data available.

My small IT group are attempting to use our shared influence to convince management that working from home is the only sensible policy for now. My wife works in a hospital and has no choice. They now have an isolation ward with multiple cases / suspected cases. Testing availability is still inadequate which is just unacceptable. My mother who is in a nursing home had a fall over the weekend and had to be transported to Baltimore rather than five minutes away to the local hospital which was in "lock-down" mode only accepting critical emergencies as they are at capacity - a whole other story and fiasco I will not bore you with but which is a direct result of the current situation.

It is inarguable that at this point the crucial action is to stop all social interaction wherever possible, that's the vector for the virus, whether it be recreation or work. IMO we should be on a critical services only footing, meaning medical facilities, mental health, groceries, pharmacies, communications and utilities. Either we flatten the curve or overwhelm the ability of our healthcare system which has insufficient surge capacity due to poor contingency planning. I hope this is a lesson learned.

[Dana5140]

I linked to a biologist at Notre Dame who put up his analysis immediately and used a paper that is of course not peer reviewed because that takes at least half a year in science. Non peer reviews have grown increasingly common as a paper gets put up at a site where other scientists can critique it.

This is categorically untrue. I am a medical journal editor and have been for 30 years. I wrote a paper about peer review. In the journal I currently edit, it takes 2 weeks- and with crisis in place, it is often either suspended or quickened for quick publication- JAMA will do so as well NEJM and Lancet and Annals. Yes, pre-prints are for critique- but without it, we have no idea whether that paper is any good. And we only see the abstract. Yamishogun, a Nobel winner in Chemistry is not an epidemiologist. You are deferring to authority, when it is not earned. Linus Pauling was a Nobel winner as well as someone holding eugenics beliefs not based on science. I am reading actual clinical science on this virus, and I am paying attention to it without filter and without preconceived ideas- because it fucking matters to my family that it be gotten right. This is not the time to argue so as to save face. If you turn out to be correct, I for one would be incredibly and deliriously happy- but the evidence to date is lacking. So we take cautions because we have little to no idea what is happening.

[Top Cat]

It is inarguable that at this point the crucial action is to stop all social interaction wherever possible, that's the vector for the virus, whether it be recreation or work. IMO we should be on a critical services only footing, meaning medical facilities, mental health, groceries, pharmacies, communications and utilities. Either we flatten the curve or overwhelm the ability of our healthcare system which has insufficient surge capacity due to poor contingency planning. I hope this is a lesson learned.

I think part of the problem is people want to be tested, and it's nearly impossible. And people are going to clinics and emergency rooms and overwhelming the system.
The administration has proposed setting up testing areas, such as a drive thru to reduce social contact, where people can go and be tested. This sounds like a good approach to me. If they test positive, they can be told to self quarantine, given instructions on proper quarantine methods, and only go to emergency rooms if they begin to have the worst symptoms.
If we can separate those who really NEED to go to ER and medical attention, from those who are afraid, or believe they have the virus but haven't been tested. This may slow down the burden on hospitals and staff who can then focus on those who really are in danger.

So, if we can get testing done on a lower tier before hospitals and ERs, it wil

[Top Cat]

It spreads faster than flu because it's brand new, there is no resistance in any population.
Its more deadly than flu, figures differ, but I have seen 3 to 6 times.
But mortality will also depend on the help you can get, so its crucial that we all dont get it at the same time. So stay home.
Vaccines will most probably not be available in 2020.

thank you.

^^ The big difference being that we don't have entire nations in lock-down over the flu. This is not mass hysteria. It's mass precaution. And, in most cases, it's too late.

That tells you that the comparisons, while instructive, can be misguided, misunderstood and misrepresented by many.

thank you

[Buddhabreath]

I think part of the problem is people want to be tested, and it's nearly impossible. And people are going to clinics and emergency rooms and overwhelming the system.
The administration has proposed setting up testing areas, such as a drive thru to reduce social contact, where people can go and be tested. This sounds like a good approach to me. If they test positive, they can be told to self quarantine, given instructions on proper quarantine methods, and only go to emergency rooms if they begin to have the worst symptoms.
If we can separate those who really NEED to go to ER and medical attention, from those who are afraid, or believe they have the virus but haven't been tested. This may slow down the burden on hospitals and staff who can then focus on those who really are in danger.

So, if we can get testing done on a lower tier before hospitals and ERs, it wil

Yes I agree. One problem is that at home self-quarantine is not the best approach. In China my understanding is that they had people on the streets scanning for temperatures and when some had a fever they were immediately directed to an "infection center" where they were tested on the spot and isolated from their families and everyone else if positive. Many people don't have separate bathrooms etc. and home isolation will not be as effective. We should see the national guard and military setting up field facilities now and leveraging their resources to the fullest extent IMO. Caution and even over-reaction in the face of uncertainty would be wise it seems to me.

[Camelogue]

Just an observation. It seems younger people are more concerned than over 65 types. I know a good number of older folks who agree with the Rush Limbaugh statement that this is no more than a cold. Maybe because younger people have a much longer time horizon?

[Top Cat]

Just an observation. It seems younger people are more concerned than over 65 types. I know a good number of older folks who agree with the Rush Limbaugh statement that this is no more than a cold. Maybe because younger people have a much longer time horizon?

As someone who is over 70, what is giving you that impression about over 65 types? I'm not offended or challenging you, just curious what leads you to believe this.
As far as Rush goes, I left that guy in the dust at 50 when I grew up. lol

[Poisoned Youth]

As a reminder, you can just hit the moderate button to alert us of posts with misinformation. We aren't going to research every post in this thread, so I ask that you all click moderate when it's necessary (and not just because you don't like what someone is saying).

Stay safe!

[Dana5140]

It is not true that "we have little to know idea what is happening" but there is a range in possible outcomes.

I refer specifically to the United States. Lack of testing has provided little information as to virus spread and impact. We do not know its incidence at present, which is calculated simply as number of new cases per population. What is the number of new cases? No idea. That's the problem.

[Top Cat]

Older people are just less frightened of death.

While this is true, we also value it to a high degree because of the things we've lived through and experienced over a lifetime.

Not enough to be dancing about staying alive, but I'll stay home and follow all the guidelines to curtail contagion, because I'm no fool, and because we're all in this together.

I like that, and agree wholeheartedly.

[Camelogue]

I based my observation on people in the grocery store, the gym, my own children who are 29-34 and the younger people I work with.

I am in my early 60's.

Not trying to be political but the older people at the gym and grocery store have been railing about the "hoax" and "this is America, we are free"

Maybe they have an agenda, maybe they are selfish, I don't know. This was not a scientific survey.

[ronmac]

^^ Or maybe they're just blithering idiots who have been conned into not thinking for themselves.

[Top Cat]

I based my observation on people in the grocery store, the gym, my own children who are 29-34 and the younger people I work with.

I am in my early 60's.

Not trying to be political but the older people at the gym and grocery store have been railing about the "hoax" and "this is America, we are free"

Maybe they have an agenda, maybe they are selfish, I don't know. This was not a scientific survey.

My wife and I are pretty much hermits, as much as we enjoy people, we enjoy being alone more. So I ask from a perspective of not being around(hanging out with) a lot of older people(even tho I live in a 55+ community in Florida lol).
It just seems weird that the very targeted group of this virus would be so carefree. It may simply be the survivor mentality after making it through all the scares over decades of living.

I agree about keeping politics out of it, except for the fact Rush is an entertainer, and while there are many things we can question our politicians' motives, to consider it a hoax or promote it as such is simply irresponsible. If people want to believe that, that is their right, but please still exercise caution around those who don't believe that and don't promote it as such.
And these people don't speak for me or my friends in our age group.

I do question certain things about this outbreak, but I still exercise caution and respect the "space" of others, for they deserve to not be exposed from people acting irresponsible or selfishness.

Btw, it's encouraging to me that younger people are taking this seriously.
Thank you for your comments.

[Dana5140]

I do question certain things about this outbreak,

What could you possibly question?

[Camelogue]

First of all what is anyone, young or old, doing going to a gym. T

This was a few weeks ago before when it was still conjecture as to what would close possibly.

[spellbound]

While this is true, we also value it [life] to a high degree because of the things we've lived through and experienced over a lifetime.

I agree.

Not trying to be political but the older people at the gym and grocery store have been railing about the "hoax" and "this is America, we are free"

This has more to do with education and political brainwashing than with old age. I can assure you, not all us geezers think that way. Ignorance has its price.